General Music Chat

I have an acoustic-electric, have an audition tonight for a side project. On a emergency basis a week ago (was not my emergency lol), I had to restring the guitar with a set of electric strings, and frankly, it doesn't sound much different plugged in, and is a little easier to play (I do have CTS, although I don't want to broadcast that to the person auditioning me).

Should I run up to the store and get some light acoustic strings on my lunch break, or just keep the electrics on it? Is it THAT unprofessional to use electrics? I've never worked much with acoustic projects or guitars, so I don't know if that's like a "guitar crime" or not, lol.

As long as it sounds about the same - who cares?
If you put new strings on, you're going to be retuning all night . . .

As long as it sounds about the same - who cares?
If you put new strings on, you're going to be retuning all night . . .

yeah, thought about that.. I would look like a complete tool going out of tune in the middle of every song.

If it doesn't affect the playability of the instrument AND it's easier, I say "if it isn't broken, do not fix it."

As long as it sounds about the same - who cares?
If you put new strings on, you're going to be retuning all night . . .

I'm surprised you would say something like that Rman considering the lenght of time you've been playing.
Am i the only one that pre-stretches strings after installing them?
Mine (Bass of course) will fall out of tune for maybe 5 minutes after putting new ones on and thats a loooong time to me, normally after a minute or 2 they're done stretching.
Pre-stretch: after putting new strings on, tune em up or close to tune preferably a step or 2 below being in tune and manually pull up on the string with moderate upward pressure up and down their entire lenght, sometimes it needs to be done twice. Do each string seperately, and dropping out of tune time will be cut down considerably.
All it is, is you're drawing the stretch out manually. Just don't go bonkers pulling on them with all your might. LOL

Yeah, but remember it was a temporay fix, and he had an audition scheduled.
And I didn't feel like explaining the entire tuning process and coming across as condescending . . . (either that, or I was just being lazy).
And, besides, I'm not getting paid to do this . . .

Also - I didn't think he was going to leave the strings on after the audition . . . I hope not, anyway.
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Whatever . . .
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And, anyway, yeah, I do pre-'strech' my strings.
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Actually, I don't know how much the strings truly stretch; - what they mostly do is slip and wrap themselves firmer . . .
The actual stretching may take 2 - 24 hours . . . dunno . . .
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But most of the immediate tuning problems with new strings can be directly attributed to slippage and settling . . .
What happens is that the strings slip and settle where you've got them wrapped around the pegs, and sometimes you get some slippage down by the other end, where they're pegged.
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Ok, ok, . . . What the hell; I'll tell you how I tune; free lesson for the
newbies . . .
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If you've been playing less than 5 years, you might want to read this and try it.
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Because you WILL save yourself the aggravation of having to re-tune when you're trying to play a song . . .
And - first off: always tune upwards.
If you're too sharp, then de-tune flat and then tune up. Otherwise you can introduce an area of low tension by the keys, eventually resulting in a slightly flat note.
You want the same tension by the keys as at the fretboard.
And this process takes only about 1/5 of a second longer, per string . . .
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I've notice that a LOT of guitarists don't have a clue when one of their strings is a tad sharp or flat. They don't even notice.
But I notice . . .
And a lot of guitarists don't even care if one of their strings is a tad sharp or flat. It's "close enough" or "good enough" for them.
Let me tell you, my friends, 'good enough' is NOT the same as good.
If you're going to do a thing: do it right the first time.
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Ok, end of tantrum.

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TUNING:
Thread your new strings, and tune them.
I tune each string 1/2 a tad sharp (in this case, a 'tad' is a barely noticable amount).
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Then, using one fingertip, I push down on each string to bring it into tune.
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Then, again using just one fingertip, I push down on each string, making it too flat, and then immediately tighten and re-tune it.
If you can't make it flat by pushing down, - you're good to go; - go onto the next string.
Repeat with the next string, and the next.
I do not pull up on the string, because I want it to seat firmly, and pulling up partially unseats it. . . . you lose the friction you were establishing by tuning up . . .
Also, by pulling upwards on a string, you can not be entirely sure how much force you're putting on the string.
By pushing down with just one fingertip, you know exactly how much force you are applying.
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You can pull up if you want, but I advise pushing down; - your choice. Do what you want, I don't care . . .
But, that's how I do it.
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Ok, so now my guitar with the new strings is in tune.
Next, I bang out about 10 chords, hitting them pretty hard (or fingerpick a bar of a song) to re-tighten any loose spots in my wrapping job.
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I check the tuning, and press down and re-tune as necessariy.
. . . and bang out another 10 chords, and check again.
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I repeat the process until the tuning has settled. Usually in 5 minutes it's fairly rock-solid.
Fairly, but not 100% . . .
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So, ok, this took me an extra 25 minutes, just now, to type all that.
. . . hope someone appreciates it.
But it's a sure bet to save anyone who uses this process a lot of aggravation when performing with new strings,
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Oh, by the way, I use this same process with my bass, but I use the flat of my finger to press down, instead of the tip.
A bass guitar is a lot different - they tune quite rapidly, and tend to stay in better tune than a guitar.
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Yeah, that took a WHOLE lot longer to say than my original response . . .
. . . hope it was worth it to someone . . .

Good info R-man. I hope some of the less experienced players pay attention.

I stretch my strings too, but I pull up, never noticed any real problems. It takes 15-20 minutes, string change and all. My guitars still wander out of tune a bit for an hour or so but not bad. I also always tune up same as you, never down to pitch, that makes more difference than anything else.

New strings do stretch, especially at the wraps on the ball end. The windings at the tuners have to tighten up too, and of course the "settling in" you mentioned, at least with an acoustic. Acoustics also have more neck tension, and if you remove all the strings, the neck has to settle back into place after all the tension has been relieved then reintroduced. Add it all up and you have an intonation nightmare when changing strings. Years ago I would solder the wraps on the ball end to eliminate that part of the stretching, it seemed to make a difference but takes some time. It didn't seem to affect string life, I could still keep strings on my acoustic for a couple of months with no trouble.I finally gave that up since it was a hassle, and at that time I was playing 5 nights a week, changing strings every night. If I didn't I would start breaking strings after an hour or two the second night.

I also played electric strings at that time, light top heavy bottom custom sets I'd put together out of singles. No such thing as light top heavy bottom sets back then, and I wanted heavy bass strings with lighter G B E for leads. So ai made up my own custom 10-52 or 54 sets. 10, 13, 18, 26, 36-40, 52/54. Finally switched back to regular acoustic strings when Dean Markley started making light top heavy bottom sets that would work for me.

Electric strings will sound a bit thinner unless you use such a set. Bronze also sounds different than nickel or stainless. I use stainless for electrics when I can find them, GHS Curt Manghan bronze on my acoustic. They sound great and last pretty well, I like them better than Elixirs. Silhouette of a Daydream was done with the Curt Manghan strings, 11 gauge. I'm switching back to 12 now, but currently using 11's because they were out of 12's.

Kramerguy:

I'd change strings if I had time, I always like to have new strings on for auditions or gigs, I want the best sound possible, I just make sure I stretch the strings well and play it for an hour earlier in the day beforehand. Intonation tends to behave pretty well...

I love my kramer... lock nut original floyd rose - string it, tune it, divebomb a few times, re-tune, lock it, and done. Stays in perfect tune for a month.



Anyways. The audition went great! I went in, memorized 3 originals in 3 days, and was given a 4th song on the spot to learn and 'invent' a guitar line. After a couple of run throughs, I was able to put aside the 'tab' and play from memory. I used my epiphone dot for most of the audition, and the acoustic ended up being only a small part of it overall.

I won't know for a few weeks what the outcome is, but I think it looks promising.

Rythym,

Im with you, I cant stand to hear a guitar out of tune. I play so much that when I play now I can ussually tune an out of tune string in the middle of a song with out stopping.

I always, repeat I always tune below the note or flat and then tune up to the note.

Its weird the other night I restrung one of my guitars and I just basically tuned the guitar by the tension on the strings. When I checked it on my tuner every string was within a semitone of being in tune. I guess we just get better the older we get.

A few weeks ago, I went and saw this young band play that wants to open up for us. They were playing Plush which has those big open G chords that just ring. His g string was out of tune. Flat in fact, well I thought it was so obvious that between songs he would check his tuning, no they go in to the next song and he didnt do anything. I went over to the side of the stage and I wrote on a napkin "Your G Strings Flat"

So he checks it with his tuner and sure enough he tunes and sounds way better. After the gig he was talking to me and says how did you know that? Im like man use your damn ears. I guess you just have to develop ears over a period of time.

On new strings I stretch and bend the crap out of them for a few minutes, recheck my tuning and ussually mine settle in pretty quick. Ive found that using the minumum winds around the tuning peg helps me. If I wrap a string more than 3 times on my Les Pauls it seems to shift and slip a lot.

And Kramer I would put some fresh strings on the acoustic. If the guys you are auditioning for know much about guitars they might think less of you with the electric strings on the guitar. You never know what might rub someone wrong on your first meeting. I always want to make the first impression the best I can, cause a lot of times you dont get a 2nd chance.

Good Luck on the audition, knock em dead!

I don't get how lighter gauge strings could cause fret damage on an acoustic guitar. Seems to me that the frets would last longer, if there were any difference at all, since there's less overall tension with the lighter string.

I don't see sny huge problem with using electrics on an acoustic. I get my youngest students to do it all the time until they develop hand strength.

A string smaller in gauge than the nut is cut for will cut its own groove in the nut. Maybe they have a similar effect on the frets.

r

. . . about the nut and string guage . . .
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Yeah, I guess that over time, a smaller string could work it's way down into the nut; but there IS less tension, so it'd take a lot of playing.
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Next question - just how small a guage string are you talking about, anyway, eh?
I used to use .009's on my electric, but that's pretty thin . . . I'm pretty sure that most electric guitarists use heavier strings than that, though . . .
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On my acoustic I use the lightest guage acoustic strings I can find - .10 to .47.
That's got to be equivelant to a lot of electric strings.
And - hey, the laws of physics, man - same guage = same tension, unless the neck is longer, - then there's more tension . . . .
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So - you brought up a good point.
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Before I sanded down the bottom of my nut to lower the action, I went to the music store to get a replacement nut, just in case.
I bought the guitar from him, and so he ordered the nut, and gave it to me - no charge.
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Ok, my point is that a new nut probably won't cost you a ton of money, as long as it's not too 'weird' . . .
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I wouldn't be concerned about the nut wearing down. If it did, it'd probably just improve the action, anyway . . .
If the nut gets too low, you can put one or two slivers of paper under it to raise it back up.
But, by then you'll probably need a fret job, anyway, so what's the difference?
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And Kramer I would put some fresh strings on the acoustic. If the guys you are auditioning for know much about guitars they might think less of you with the electric strings on the guitar. You never know what might rub someone wrong on your first meeting. I always want to make the first impression the best I can, cause a lot of times you dont get a 2nd chance.

Good Luck on the audition, knock em dead!

hehe, see the post right above yours

9's on the Strat. 10's on the Les Paul. always prestress the strings yes I pull up and also do a lot of bends. If I bust a string I will replace the broken one to get me through the practice / gig then replace the rest when I get home. Bigest problem I have now is temp change throwing my guitar out of tune. I keep my axes in the house at around 69 degrees.
However when I go out to the studio (spelled barn in Texas) its usually 90+ takes a while for my guitar to adjust to the temp change.