Musician Gear & Tech Discussion

I'm running my solid state Vox (5 watt practice amp) into my Peavey Ultra 100. I use the Noise suppressor in the Vox to suck the noise out of the gain channel, but when I record it by wire, it sounds a little trebly.
If I record through condenser mics, it sounds muddy and hissy.
Any suggestions?

I haven't tried recording with my solid state practice amp, I rarely even use it except when I want loads of distortion at low volume for doodling at home. But I tried running one through a PA head onstage years ago, and through a guitar amp, never did get a good sound from the thing.

I finally soldered in an extension speaker jack with a cutoff so it would shut off the internal speaker, plugged it into a 1x12 cab and it sounded pretty decent. Now I have a Fender Champ, that's the one I use for tone, and through the Kustom 2x12 cab if I want big amp sound, I gave up on using the solid state rig for a preamp, it just wouldn't get the tone I'm after.

If you can, try and hook it up to a cab with a couple of 12's in it, and record that, I never did like the sound of the line out signal. I don't know how the Vox is made, but my Peavey had a standard pair of spade connectors, I made up a cable long enough to reach another cab before I added the shutoff speaker jack so I could run it with a standard speaker cable. Spade clips on one end, guitar jack on the other. As long as it's a match for the impedance of the cab, the 5 watter will push even a 4x12 cab. And it will sound great, big amp sound but low volume level. That should also give you less trouble with noise, but high gain channels have some noise no matter what you do, it's the nature of the beast.

The muddy sound is probably from the tiny speaker, the smaller speakers used in those amps just don't have the bass response to get a really good sound, that's why I ran mine through 1 and 2x12 cabs, it cleans up the bottom end a lot.

So, In short, you're suggesting I run it through a begger amp first and swich cables?

Running it through a bigger amp (line out of the practice amp to guitar input of bigger amp works fine, it's a good signal strength for it) would make a huge difference, it takes some tinkering but you can get a good sound that way, or just run it through a speaker cabinet with 12" speakers. That makes a big difference by itself, the smaller 8" speakers usually just don't get a good "big amp" sound.

Try both ways, if possible, and see what works for you. I ran mine through a PA amp and a pair of 2x10 cabs, it did pretty well onstage, and at home I just plugged it into a cab with a 12" speaker or my Kustom 2x12, both work great.

Straight line signal into the recorder just doesn't cut it for me, I was never able to get a really good sound that way, it's simply not a tube amp cranked...

Preamped into a bigger amp does a good job, still not a cranked tube amp but usable.

As I'm sure you already know I'm a dedicated tube head, if I want to record I'll use either my Super Reverb for clean or the Champ for raunch, and occasionally I might try the RMS solid state for the distortion channel, I'm not sure how well it will do though since I haven't tried to record it yet, but it does get a pretty decent distortion sound. I'll be trying it out before long though, if I can find a way to get some quiet around here...neighbors' dogs usually kill any chance of recording...3am is even chancy, they're still out there barking nonstop...and it's loud and clear in my bedroom, loud enough to keep me awake till 2 or 3 a lot of the time. and I'm talking several nights a week...I rarely get to sleep before 2 and often get woke up by 5...three dogs nearby that literally bark for 2 hours at a time without stopping more than 30 seconds...can't sleep, can't record, annoying if I try to watch a movie or talk on the phone...I woke up to one this morning, 5am, didn't stop for over 2 hours....

Try just a bigger speaker if possible, that may do the trick, the cheesy little 8" speaker is often the biggest problem with sound quality when using low wattage practice amps, including my Fender Champ, which is a tube amp. It sounds great cranked to 10, but otherwise sounds a bit small. The 1x12 cabinet I built or my 1967 Kustom 2x12 makes it sound great even at low volume. Ditto for my Peavey and Gorilla practice amps I used years ago. I fixed both up with extension speaker jacks that would also shut off the internal speakers to keep the impedance matched. Both my cabs are 4 ohm, the Champ is 3.2 ohm, so that works well.

If you try a bigger amp, the line out signal is not a problem, but keep the practice amp to a fairly low volume to avoid clipping. No way you're going to eliminate buzz, high gain channels buzz, and the bigger amp will amplify that too along with guitar noise, room noise, magnetic fields, etc. My RMS buzzes by itself on the gain channel. I haven't tried preamping it yet, haven't needed to. You can reduce it by using the noise supressor and the best cables you can get, shut off any florescent lights, keep the guitar away from the monitor or use a flat screen LCD monitor, they don't create buzz. I play in front of mine all the time, no noise at all but in front of a regular CRT monitor it buzzes really loud.

Got curious and did some tinkering. I haven't tried to record any electric stuff yet, and after going through this thread I decided I'd see what my RMS would do. Just uploaded "Gain Doodles" to my profile, here's the equipment:

Cort Cl 1500 (dual humbuckers, hollow body...hey Ted Nugent did it...)
RMS 260D solid state, 8" speaker
Nady SP9 mic (cheap, but does ok) 6" from speaker
into a Tascam Portastudio 414 then into computer running Audacity.

I thought OK, what if Billy Gibbons and Ozzie Osbourn sat down in front of me and said "play us some raunch".

Grabbed the Cort, dialed in a good loads o' gain sound, and keep in mind I was going for muddy...power chords with a low note added, This starts with a B and a low F# added that should be mudpie deluxe with sludge on the side right?

No effects added through Audacity or stomp boxes, the only editing at all was the fade on the harmonic at the end, and you can also see how I manage to save a screw up, the ending was supposed to start with the second note at 53 seconds that was muffled quickly. I missed the string entirely and hit the one above it...managed to make it come out decent anyway though I think...

I think it didn't turn out too bad, considering room noise and low quality mic, not warmed up good, and using a guitar most people wouldn't even consider for high gain situations...

Thinking about switching to the Champ and a stomp box for comparison, may take a few days though, I'm also working on the acoustic song for neanderpaul at the same time so I have to split things up...

See what you think, and remember Martin Barre (Jethro Tull) used a Marshall 10 watt practice amp for the entire Crest of A Knave album, he tried to run 3 (or was it 6) onstage but couldn't get enough volume so he went back to big amps onstage. I've heard them play some of those songs onstage and couldn't tell the difference in guitar sound. I know they played "Raising Steam" at one show, and another one I can't remember right now, but it sounded identical to the album with a full size amp.

Did some m ore tinkering last night, tried using the old lap steel, but switched to my Ibanez SD9 for distortion through the clean channel of the same amp. Still plenty bass and distortion was good, but had the same problem you mentioned, too much treble. Turned highs down on the amp, Tascam channel and distortion pedal, still had more treble on the recording than I heard from the amp itself.

Don't know what's causing that, but after listening to the doodles I uploaded a few times I'm getting a lot more highs running the stomp box, and the low end sounds pretty decent to me, at least on my computers. Haven't tried putting it on CD yet to play it through the stereo, but one of the computers sounds pretty close, but not as much volume.

By the way I also put up a pic of the amp with the settings I was using when I recorded "gain doodles" if you're wondering about volume and tone settings, and it was at very low volume, dorm room volume level. Basically the same volume level as an acoustic guitar. Pic is on the main profile page with the other pics.

Now I'm wondering what's up with the highs coming through more than I actually heard...I'll post the lap steel thing if you want to hear it, so you'll have an idea what I'm trying to get across. too much treble and it came out harsh, not what I wanted or what I heard from the amp.

WHY????

Perhaps it's not the treble.
Cut out some of the mids and turn up the bass and see what happens.
If anything, the mids are what gives the tone volume and harshness. The highs add sqeal and definition.

OK, I'll show you. Bass is already on 10 and mids only about 5 or so. I'll upload a couple of things, same amp but clean channel and Ibanez SD 9 Sonic Distortion pedal. Same settings, too much treble. Rolled back the highs on amp, mixer and pedal and it sounds pretty good. I kinda like the slide thing anyway, so check these out...Gain Doodles 2 and Slide Raunch. I started to use the Boss SD1 I just got, but I like the SD 9 better. But I got a deal, $20 and it looks like it's brand new, works perfect.

No software editing was done on either, except to remove a few seconds of noise getting ready, mic in the same place about 6" away, same Cort CL 1500 for Gain Doodles 2, mid 40's Electromuse lap steel for Slide Raunch, which combines a Van Wilks slide lick and Rollin and Tumblin as done by Eric Clapton, but with loads of distortion.

These came out sounding good, but I had to roll the treble back to around 4 on the amp (usually 6-7), and about 8 o'clock on the distortion pedal (usually 10 o'clock), 2 on the Tascam. Otherwise it had way too much treble, everything else was fine. Thing is, listening to the amp itself it didn't have that much treble, it was about right. But the recording had too much treble...I've had the same problem with my acoustic, I have to pull the treble back on the mixer and usually use the Audacity software EQ to pull it back even more so it's not just this rig, I seem to be getting too much treble either way.

I'm wondering if the mic is too far away and the bass is fizzling out before it gets there. To mic onstage I put the mic against the grill cloth, here I had it 6" away. Whatever the case, once I pulled the treble back it sounds good. I'm also surprised how good the bass response is for a small solid state practice amp, and at really low volume levels. Most of the time it's giving me the kind of bass I like onstage, kind of like a 10 foot bulldog barking behind me.


Also if you listen close you can hear how the SD9 colors the sound and makes the mids just jump out at times, especially with slide, and at one point early in Gain Doodles 2 I hear feedback...at very low bedroom volume...I couldn't believe it but there it is...around 20 seconds I think. That one was just tinkering around some, whatever popped into my head, it's not intended to be an actual song, just what the name implies, doodling around...But I like some of the sounds I got, especially the overtones during the first 20 seconds, doing the high part.

And this will give you guys a chance to hear me play a little too, at least until I have a chance to try and out together a full song. I have a couple in mind, Rollin and Tumblin is one, and an old Guess Who song, plus an original I wrote about 6 months ago but I haven't tried to figure out what I want for instrumentation or their parts yet. But I am seriously considering working my Wurlitzer electric piano in somewhere. Have to get in touch with a couple of friends here to see if I can get them to do some bass and drums for me, might take some time though due to busy schedules...

Anyway, see what you think, and does this give you any help on how to deal with your rig? I'm wondering if it might work better for you to try just the amp too, instead of running a line signal or through a bigger amp. My RMS seems to be doing a good job by itself, maybe your Vox will too?