General Music Chat

So, here's the deal. I finally decided what I want to do with my life. Record Producing. I've always been into that, and people say I have a good ear for stuff like that.

The only problem is...I'm having trouble finding a college that offers courses in that field. I know there are some around here, but when I google it, nothing comes up. I guess I'll have to ask around.

But anyway, I was just wondering if you guys had any advice - tell me the ups and downs of being in that sort of business...

Hey Ryan,

As a young studio musician in Nashville in the early 80's, I found that producers could talk the talk as well as walk the walk when it came to music .They also knew how to get what they wanted out of us , even after a long session that was seemingly going no where...I wish I had asked some of them how they got started and what they did to progress...Seems to me that many started out like your going by persuing the "Gut" level interest .As musicians , Im sure they hung out in the studios and learned about engineering,watched and listened to other producers noting their style and technique.Mobile studios are becoming more popular as the ability to record a band live at a venue is getting easier .I think alot of it is a natural talent with the inate ability to orchestrate parts, harmonies, and handle musicians....One of MY downfalls was not learning more about the business end of things while I was young...Just off the top of head , What about E TN state?..I know many who have gone thru their program. Not sure about producing as a major, but I know its included somewhat in other courses...Yeah, I would be around recording when ever possible,..Learn how to communicate with all instruments/vocals and how to talk their talk in theory... And check out E TN state which may provide related links to other schools..


John

John

Although I have no practical experience with this, I can relay what I was told once:

Go to the bigger clubs that have live bands, start getting to know the soundmen who run the boards; network, find a few who also produce/engineer in local studios. Many producers / engineers in studios are willing to take on new "apprentices", simply because they get a guy who's willing to lug gear around, run wires, etc. for free, which they are glad to compensate by teaching them in's and out's of professional / studio recording.

Dunno if that's true, but it's what someone told me once, and it seems to make sense.

you dont have to have school to do that...i know quite a few producers who never took a single class.....i do promotions and did management i also do bookings and reviews...infact i have dedicated a myspace page to helping musicians and never took a single class.....its all about research...in yourcase if you have the er....find a studio and start sitting in till they feel cofortable enough to give you a shot at procucing a song.

If you want a sheep skin to hang and use as colaterral. Talk with some of the big name recording companies and find out which school has the best rep. and move there. After all a sheep skin in many cases is only as good as the schools reputation no matter how good you are.

I'm not sure you really understand what a record producer does? Formal education can be helpful, but a tremendous amount of experience in ALL facets of music, from writing to pre and post production engineering is absolutely essential, if you are working with bands, as opposed to doing everything with software.

As a producer of a band's album, you are brought in to have a vision of what the album should be, and then to realize that vision, with the band, by overseeing virtually EVERY aspect of the music production and recording process.

To accomplish this, you must have a very thorough understanding of arranging music, of instrumentation, i.e. you should understand as much about guitars and tone, and which amps do what to the sound as the guitarist would. You need to oversee the entire recording process, which means you should understand how recording works, how to use the boards, what various mics do and sound like, you need to know the "tricks" that bring magic out of a studio. You should have an understanding of what makes a song "radio ready", which means much more than "polished" or "sounds good". A radio station transmits a signal. Music is recorded in such a way, that aurally as full a range of the audio spectrum is used as possible for a complete or full sound. Sometimes things "sound" pretty full, but through looking at the sound waves, it becomes clear that there are "holes" in the music. These should be "filled" so that there is an even flow across the spectrum of sound, highs and lows, so the music is balanced and full.

There is MUCH involved.

You say you have a good "ear". But as a producer, just having a good "ear" is like a mechanic saying "I know what's wrong with the car, I just don't know how to fix it."

You MUST know how to "fix it" and this comes with a tremendous amount of real life experience in ALL facets of music, from writing to production and recording and mixing and mastering.

Start with some courses in engineering. These are available from music institutes. While working on your degree, become an intern in a good studio. You will work for them in exchange for what you learn. This will be invaluable, because when you are done sweeping and taking out the trash, and maybe setting mics up for an act coming in to record, you can then be in the engineer booth, and SEE and EXPERIENCE what a good engineer does, and how he does it. He will teach you and explain what he is doing and why. You will gain a tremendous amount of experience as an intern, to the point that he may trust you at some point to record smaller sessions, all on your own. Trust me, you could spend years just doing this, and you will learn alot, and still not be as knowledgeable as an engineer with decades of experience under his belt, but THAT IS WHERE YOU NEED TO BE! In a studio, almost living and sleeping there!

btw... as an intern, you may also get free use of the studio for recording your own projects. Depends upon the owner, and what you are doing for the studio.

As a record producer, your primary job description is overseeing completely, from beginning to end, the entire process of a band selecting songs for an album, making song arrangements that are creative and keep the music interesting to the potential listener, recording the tracks, mixing the tracks, mastering the tracks and having them radio ready. The best place to learn this, BAR NONE, is in a studio. Spend hours upon hours there, days and weeks and months and years.

1) Go to school for engineering.

2) Become an intern in a recording studio.


Start with the two things above.

That will keep you busy for awhile, and you will then have a foundation to work from.

A radio station transmits a signal. Music is recorded in such a way, that aurally as full a range of the audio spectrum is used as possible for a complete or full sound. Sometimes things "sound" pretty full, but through looking at the sound waves, it becomes clear that there are "holes" in the music. These should be "filled" so that there is an even flow across the spectrum of sound, highs and lows, so the music is balanced and full.

That's exactly what I always have trouble with, both: as a listener and a performer. Just when I listen to something, and I feel there's something off balance. Even though every instrument is played very well AND they blend, but they're still not mixed well.
Excellent point you brought up there, Craig.

That's exactly what I always have trouble with, both: as a listener and a performer. Just when I listen to something, and I feel there's something off balance. Even though every instrument is played very well AND they blend, but they're still not mixed well.
Excellent point you brought up there, Craig.

Well bro, that's why our stuff recorded at home or in a smaller studio sounds like it does, compared to what a major label accomplishes with the best studios and producers and engineers.

But here is what irks me...

As a writer and arranger, I can cut through the gloss I hear on major albums, and just focus on the "meat" of a song. It's melody and lyrics, and the artist's performance of it. What KILLS me, is how often I hear a song which is feeble, regarding melody, lyrics and even performance sometimes, but a good producer and engineer, will gloss it all up, through the arrangement, layering backgrounds, layering vocals, balancing the entire thing so it is full and flows well, and before you know it, the thing is a hit.

While I admire the work of the producer, what I HATE is that the true creativity came from the producer and engineer and NOT the songwriter or artist themselves. This happens amazingly often, particularly in rap and pop music, and the like.

If that expertise had been utilized on a true genius in music, and there are unknowns worthy of this, wow, how amazing that would be. But instead, these image based artists, who have become famous, but have hit a rut and are not writing worthy material, can just rely on an experienced producer to turn crap into a rose.

From an artistic standpoint...

Shameful

I think we're on the same page, but I hate it when a band that is able to put out great music, individually and collectively, but they decide to "polish" their songs too much.. just for the radio and MTV. I find that a waste of good talent. I mean, make one or two for the media, but keep the rest of the album a little raw and straight to the core.
I don't care that much bout people who can't sound fine on their own, as long as they stay away from me.

Back to topic: Good luck, Ryan.

Give me a good raw band live on stage mistakes and all. Thats where music lives. On the street corner, in the bars (though I wont go there any longer) In the Churches, festivals, partys and picknics. What comes out of the high power studio is spam. Pasturized processed cheese like food for the ignorant masses. Give me a home brew, I will filter it through my teeth. Hell yes and AMEN.

MTSU in Murfreesboro TN has a great recording program.

I was hoping I wouldn't have to move out of state...But I'll have to do whatever it takes...

Ryan, I was a recording engineer major at Memphis State University in the early 80s. At that time these programs were new. Most people at that time didnt go to college to learn the trade. As Paul said in TN the other school was MTSU. I interned with Tree Publishing in Nashville for a while in the early 80s. I wanted to do the same thing you want to do. I just didnt like being a studio gopher and decided to be my own boss and entered another field all together.

On a side note a friend from college was a guy named Paul Ebersol. Paul was a grade ahead of me at MSU, he interned with Ardent Studios in Memphis. Back then he talked John Fry the owner of Ardent into letting him book out the hours that werent booked by major artist with local heavy metal bands. Paul also played bass in a club band at the time.

I got away from music for awhile and lost track of Paul. I also race motocross and was at a race about 15 yrs ago and ran into Paul racing with his son. I said what are you doing he said producing records. Well among others he produced some of 3 Doors Down biggest records. I sell his father propane and he told me a couple of years ago that Paul had taken his profits and built his own studio.

As Craig said, you are going to need to be involved with all facets of recording.

Nashville, MTSU might be a good school, I think they will help place you with a studio to intern at. If you go to school also get a minor or major in business. The other side of being a producer is handling an artist budget and making sure they dont blow too much money.

School engineering and business

Intern recording studio

Get out and meet artist that one day might be potential clients.

Becoming a producer is probably alot harder than being an artist, but if you ever get on a hit record, you should get residual money for your part.

Good Luck

I've visited this great school for contemperary music is St. Paul, MN. Its called the Mcnally Smith college of music.

mcnallysmith.edu

Check it out! They have some of the greatest equipment to play with.