General Music Chat

I listened to DTK this weekend on your myspace.

Mike, I'm an older musician by industry standards, and I see exactly where you're coming from. One thing that pisses me off is I'm older, and I play music that most people my age won't touch. (Burn is one of my mellower songs. ) I'm caught right in the middle of young and old.

It took me a lot of years to learn how to scream the way I do. I learned how to use the actual tone of my voice, and add growl behind it. And I learned how to scream in a style that is along the same register as "screamo" ( I really do hate that word) Both styles need to be done very carefully, and I think your singer does have a talent for it. He is a good singer. I'm a DTK fan all the way. There were about 15 bands at our practice studio that played that style, and you guys would kick the s**t out of all of them.

Keep doing what you're doing man. Ride the lightning, and see where it takes you.


Ryan.. You just need to practice your skills. I don't know if you've watched the Melissa Cross DVD's or not. If you have, then you're still not getting it. If you haven't, go buy it. It's really evident that you aren't screaming, but whispering and trying to create the effect of screaming. You're not breathing right, and you don't seem to have your mic control down. You fall into a category that I've seen many, many times. When you use your singing voice, you're at a volume level that is actually higher than your screaming/whispering voice. your choruses are actually anti-climactic as a result. That's not a good thing. Your singing is better than your screaming (I heard small hints of a Taproot voice in your first song). It's just too transparent that you're whispering. It's not believable.

You're playing it too safe. At some point you need to actually freakin' belt one out just to test your boundaries.

I hope this doesn't seem like harsh criticism, I just don't know if you've been told anything like that before (your friends will tend to not say anything).

With Mike's singer you can hear the emotion, it translates, and climaxes. I'm no stranger to this style, and Mike's singer really is pretty good at what he does. Good luck on getting a record deal Mike, I hope it happens for you guys. If you ever come to Vegas, let me know, I'd love to see you guys live.

Thanks Shredd. It was not my intention to come back to this thread to defend this style of music but more to defend the musicians who play it. Talent has nothing to do with what style of music people play just on how well they play it.

Mike bro,

You know I respect your skillz.

I wanted to understand this genre better. I hoped there was something I was missing.

There's not. sadly.


It's just the new "in" thing, for kids to follow the leader in. It happens every 10 years. Pure Screamo can't last, at least not with the following it has today. The younger generation will come along and reject it, like they always do. Something more real will take it's place. Think of Disco, and the backlash against it, and then some of the best rock came out and took over. The same will happen here.

Disco was somewhat limiting and so is Screamo.

Screamo is more limiting (vocally) cause there is almost no melody structure, which means screaming the same, over and over and over and over. What do you do when it begins to sound the same? Which doesn't take long.

Funny how no one really tackled most of the legitimate questions I asked in the original post.

Screaming can convey many emotions (anger, happiness, despair) but when done in the style it is being done, it conveys one emotion: Anger.

So you have an already limiting vocal style, only expressing really, ONE emotion. Not room for much versatility. That has to come from the musicians (some amazingly talented ones, I admit) but screaming, not being in melody, and being prominent, because it is the lead part going on, means much of the music gets lost underneath, cause you almost have to tune out the vocalist to get the nuances of the music underneath. That is another problem I have with strictly screaming. It distracts from the music, WHICH IS in melody with keys and chord changes, etc... The vocalist ends up being noise. Like a barking dog that won't shut the f**k up, and let you hear the music you are wanting to listen to. That's EXACTLY what the vocalist becomes to me. A barking dog, that won't shut up.

Noise is useful, and can be used artistically. We were just discussing Frank Zappa in another thread, and he does this quite effectively. But constant noise throughout, is just that. Noise. Not music. Not art. There was an artist who got alot of attention by placing a photograph of a painting of Jesus and putting it in a jar of his own urine. This was funded by taxpayers, which was why it became national news. There are those that defend this as art. It's not art. It's being offensive for the sake of being offensive. There is little creativity involved. Screaming is not very different to me. It's a one trick pony.

Your band is not a pure Screamo band.

And neither is this one...

http://www.myspace.com/burdenofaday


But those guys are good. And I think your band is too.

Interestingly they list "Christian" as one of their genres. Wasn't that being discussed not long ago? How could you be a screamo Christian band? LOL

Go listen to these guys, and listen when they scream.

THEN...

Click on "Lyrics" on their player, and see if those lyrics were what you heard. I'd like to know how many people got it right, or didn't.

I had almost no clue what they were saying until I clicked on the lyrics.


And Mike, if you are doing what you love, that is MOST important. If you can find success and money at it as well, all the better.

Life goes through stages, and we all change our likes and dislikes over time. For me, music has the power to change people's lives. To heal them. To move them. To make them think. I think it's power is profound and eternal. Lyrics not well understood, and being carried on a solitary emotion of anger, will not be well received. My wife's young children ALWAYS receive messages from me better, when expressed thoughtfully, as opposed to me screaming them. I get their attention if I scream. But it shocks them. It puts walls up, and I think whatever I say, goes in one ear and out the other. When I have a real conversation with them, they are MUCH more receptive to the message, and accept it, and remember it. That is when they really think about it. It becomes a part of them then.

I realize that many artists could care less, whether they use their music for meaningful pursuits, but why... WHY... WHY... bother putting a message down in lyrics, if you don't really want people to get it? To understand the message. To accept the message.

How is that effective?

Music has immense power. But not getting the message through, is like having a nuclear power plant running, but not bothering to hook it up to the city.

A huge waste of energy and resources.

Things that are not effective, are quickly forgotten. Personally, I want to create things that last. That have staying power. I'd like to know that my music can affect people long after I'm gone. I invest my heart in things I want to endure.

You know Craig, the same thing will happen to your music genre too... Something better will come along.. So why point the finger at Screamo?

Here's a few of my favorite bands right now.. I think they are more popular than most of us here and in 20 years will be considered "Classic Metal"

http://www.myspace.com/inthismoment
http://www.myspace.com/soilwork
http://www.myspace.com/asilaydying
http://www.myspace.com/killswitchengage


God the list goes on and on...

This is no different then any Genre of music, bands progress with the times.

Saying someone is inferior because they scream a song just pisses me off.

Who do you really think is making more money right now? Classic Rock bands or Modern Metal? Looks like most of the Screamo bands are playing at Ozzfest this year... hrrrmm....

BTW Craig, that elephant vid painting a portrait was freaking amazing!!! Thanks, that was really cool.

Mike:

I was going to just delete this thread. It makes me feel bad that I've pissed you off so much about it. You're feeling proud of your band's accomplishments and rightly so, and I'm raining on the parade with this thread, which makes me feel like sh*t now.

I would have deleted it sooner, but wanted to make sure you saw Shredd's comments to you before I did.

But hell, I can't even find the damn place to delete the thread now anyway, so it may live on, unless someone points me in the right direction.

Please accept my apologies.

Here's a few of my favorite bands right now.. I think they are more popular than most of us here and in 20 years will be considered "Classic Metal"

Who knows? Maybe it will.

Saying someone is inferior because they scream a song just pisses me off.

I don't that I have said "inferior". I said it was "limiting", which "vocally" it is, since there is little if any melody structure to it. You can only scream in so many varieties. And despite the fact that some can claim it expresses different emotions, I wouldn't accept that. The lyrics may attempt to express diferrent emotions, but if I write a love poem to my wife, but scream them at her, it just doesn't work does it? It doesn't work musically either. As a species, we have a history of millions of years, and thousands and thousands of years of "civilized" history. Emotions have been what they are, for even modern man, for thousands of years. No one can change that part of the scenario on a whim. We don't get the message of "concern" for example, if we don't "feel" the emotion of concern, and recognize it. So, one of my big issues with this genre has been just that. Screaming is yelling. And that kind of screaming expresses only anger, nothing else.

If I am a dinasaur because I can't embrace a musical genre that only expresses anger, than so be it. I find that the world needs LESS anger, not more of it. So, besides being limiting, this genre helps continue chaos in the world to me, rather than doing something... anything... productive.

I am a guy that likes MANY kinds of genres. I always have. Even off the wall quirky sh*t. But, being older I guess, I worry about the future. Not only of this country, but the world. I see kids desensitized to violence, by having a steady diet of it, and perhaps parents too, are just becoming less responsible, I don't know. But I see a culture of nothing much more than violence, on the horizon for us. Music has often been the refuge of evil. An ark for the open minded. Sadly now, music is becoming a proponent of a culture of harm, chaos and destructiveness.

Singing is now screaming.

Dancing is now pushing one another.

I don't care how old you are. Is this an advance? Is it really?

Who do you really think is making more money right now? Classic Rock bands or Modern Metal? Looks like most of the Screamo bands are playing at Ozzfest this year... hrrrmm....

Money is not the best measure of something's true value, or lack thereof.

There are many things I could make money on, but refuse to, on moral principles.

BTW Craig, that elephant vid painting a portrait was freaking amazing!!! Thanks, that was really cool.

Yeah, I was pretty stunned at how accurate they were with the paint brushes. They're friggin' elephants!!!

I mean, I assume they were taught the pictures they paint, before they paint them publicly, but to remember how to paint them, to go over their own lines, PERFECTLY to darken them. Putting the right colors where they go. Painting in 3d. WTF???? LOL

Some guys posted on YouTube...

"We have to kill them before they take over!"


For those of you that haven't seen it...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_LHoyB81LnE

Craig, in no way have you pissed me off or said anything wrong. My anger was directed at one certain post in this thread not towards you. I'm a little bigger than that to get angry at someone for not liking something just because I do. Trust me, I'm very comfortable and secure with what I'm doing right now. If someone doesn't like this type of music and says so I have no problem with that and I accept it but if someone cast a big blanket over all musicians as being untalented just because they play it then I do have a problem with that kind of statement. If I came across as being upset at you I apologize as that was not my intention.

Mike, I hate your music and your style! You are horrid!... Good enough? Lmao! I am only kidding with you. I just had to say that for the Hell of it.



Truth is you got a lot of talent and I am your competition! Consider me a rival in 8 years (I won't be good enough to compete against you till then, lol).

Peace out, GuitarAnatomy.

To each his / her own I guess, I dont see how anybody could not recognise Mikes talent.
I came within a red hairs breadth away from having to fight my way out of a bar in New Orleans in the early 80s because I pissed on some boys who invited me to an airband concert I told em I work hard on my bass and it takes no talent to make a fool out of yourself with a tennis racket! I did not know the were the "band"

I think people have a right to not like certain styles of music, but unless you actually make an effort to go and see bands regularly your opinions really don't have much validity. I make it a point to go out once a week and see bands, I support local music and I keep my mind open and flexible. One thing I can't stand are musicians who aren't like this yet expect you to swoon over their new CD or come to their show. Most likely it will suck because they're so out of touch.

I.d love to be more "in touch" Jim, but long past are the day I cared anything about going to a bar being surrounded with rude drunks to hear a band. And that is about as good as it gets in my area.
Now, when my wife and I travel about and we can go to a"piano bar" or Coat and Collar atmospere I really can relax and enjoy the musicians, Maybe even talk with them and give em a tip ($ not mouth)
When I lived in New Orleans and Slidell there were some clubs that had great jazz and even rock bands. You had to have a Dress Coat or Sport Jacket and you could not get in wearing jeans or a T shirt. some even kept "loaner ties" for anyone who was almost dressed appropriatly. They were always full of patrons who could enjoy the music sitting at a clean table without getting puke on their shoes in the bathroom. I was 18 19 years old at the time even then the diff in the quality of musicians was clear.

Ryan.. You just need to practice your skills. I don't know if you've watched the Melissa Cross DVD's or not. If you have, then you're still not getting it. If you haven't, go buy it. It's really evident that you aren't screaming, but whispering and trying to create the effect of screaming. You're not breathing right, and you don't seem to have your mic control down. You fall into a category that I've seen many, many times. When you use your singing voice, you're at a volume level that is actually higher than your screaming/whispering voice. your choruses are actually anti-climactic as a result. That's not a good thing. Your singing is better than your screaming (I heard small hints of a Taproot voice in your first song). It's just too transparent that you're whispering. It's not believable.

I know exactly what you're saying, and I have improved since I recorded those crappy demos. Also, I wasn't at my best there because - 1. I didn't want to disturb my apartment building, 2. That's not even the style my vocals were made for; those were just the only instrumentals I could find at the time. And 3. I wasn't even warmed up.

Yesterday, I was screaming along with some Devil Wears Prada at work after we closed, and everyone said I sound almost exactly like the screamer from that band. That's more my style, and thats the style I plan on performing with my band. Maybe I'll post a vocal cover of a DWP song, but you'll also hear the original vocals in the background, so it won't be so good. But whatever...

"long past are the day I cared anything about going to a bar being surrounded with rude drunks to hear a band. And that is about as good as it gets in my area."

Yeah, rock and roll is usually in found in the dingiest of places but maybe that's part of its charm. I presume you play in some of those places and that some of the bands you do gigs with are your friends. Support your friends and they will support you.