General Music Chat

OK for anyone who gives a flying leap, let me do my best to explain the difference between these. I keep waiting for someone else here on BM who plays all of these to step w an explanation but i can see it's on ME to step up.

xylophone....think about a halloween cartoon and there's a skeleton dancing around. 9 times outta 10 the instrument playing that plinky music accompanying it is an xylophone. thin wood bars that are fairly high pitched and have almost zero sustain... so, to sustain a note you have "roll". used mostly in classical music and ragtime.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd9xha3vk58

marimba... also wooden bars but wider and fatter yielding more sustain. lower range that extends/overlaps in it's higher register to xylo like tone on the high notes. they're played in classical music, jazz, mexican music (often two or more players on the same instrument) the most common is a four octave (like mine) but they have extended range marimbas that go quite low. like this one here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh39-4el-YY

vibraphone....this is what you see me playing in my vids. three octaves of aluminum bars. this is credited as being THE only musical instrument invented in the good ol' USA. back in the early '20's i believe. it has a bell like tone and a sustain pedal and damper much like a piano. w damper the notes are stacato (short) and sound more percussive....step on the sustain pedal to release the damper and the bars ring. now...here's what makes it a VIBRAphone. over ea resonoator (tubes that hang down) there are blade that cover the hole at the top...think carberator! they're connected w a rod and there's a variable speed motor that turns them, opening and closing the resonators.....this gives the vibrato.

malletKAT is a midi controller for mallet players. it has rubber pads laid out like the notes of keyboard (just as the other instr are....they're ALL "keyboard percussion" instruments" sharing the keyboard's white note/black note layout. it's a basically a synth that you play w mallets. make sense?

this is my 1942 DEAGAN Dianna 4oct marimba



in the foreground is my 1976 DEAGAN Norvo Commander II vibraphone...behind it a 4 oct malletKAT. and those things on the wall behind 'em are gtrs.

Ever heard this album, Mark? I bought it for the guitarist and the comic book connection, but the vibes are killer on the whole record.

http://youtu.be/CndW3Uav1V8


http://youtu.be/nFnRz1Qh9aQ

Mark - your 1942 marimba seems to have the resonator tubes you mentioned which make the 'vibe' part of the vibraphone.

Learn sumpin' new every daggone day--reading really is FUNdamental. Never personally knew anyone who could play these (or who even had one), but the VIBRAphone you're playin' in the vids has a cool sound. From what I'm reading here, theoretically, I could play one of these, given the piano-like layout. Assuming, of course, I could actually find one somewheres and afford it (how much do they sell for typically on the used market?).

Now can you tell me a little more about those "gtrs" thingies? I've seen/heard guys beatin' on 'em and producing some obnoxious (how often do you get to use that word in a sentence?) sounds, but I was thinkin' there must be a more nimble way to manipulate 'em.

ok, boys and girls i promise to get to all your cards and letters as time allows and in the order they came in!

You like Ruth Underwood or Art Tripp or Bobby Hutcherson??
Great avant-garde xylophone, marimba and vibe players.

ruth underwood and ed mann both of whom played w zappa....meh. no big deal as i hear it. yeah...they both can play and have chops....but what else??? i never heard anything from them that got my ankles hard. i have a cpl of Ed Mann's solo albums that i picked up in cutout bins....and it was clear why they ended up there...both are quite snoozerific.

as for RU and EM's connection with Zappa (did Tripp play w FZ too?) i was never much a fan of that "everyone playing unison lines thing together" that FZ used way too much for my tastes.

Art Tripp...not hip to him.

is that who's playing in that Beefheart tune? as for degree of difficulty there...not very high at all. and that cut reminded why i don't listen to Beefheart's music and was never a fan. there's nothing wrong w music that's outside the boundaries of what we're USED TO hearing and there's plenty that i listen to (and play) in that regard.

but my beef w Beefheart (see whut i did there????) is his music always struck me as pretentious in that it was trying so very hard to be "anti music" and NOT the same ol' same ol'. as i see's it, it shouldn't come off as that's the end game and GOAL. to me .....that stuff always comes off that way.

my tastes and sensibilities w regards to avante garde players who color outside the lines....i can accept their OUTSIDE stuff if i believe they CAN color, play, and sing WITHIN the lines. but if you can't navigate a II V I or sing "straight"....then i don't want to hear a bunch of artistic "skronk" from 'em!

Bobby hutcherson is a great example of someone who can play outside, but who can also play beautifully touching music that does color WITHIN the lines.

the other really cool thing about BH is his use of marimba in addition to his great vibes playing. there were other players who used marimba in vibes before him (Red Norvo, Cal Tjader, etc) but BH's use of it on most of his albums from the 70's really opened up a lot of keyboard percussionists eyes and ears to what that inst could do in a jazz setting. those 70's albums of his are killer. great playing from everyone and great writing as well.

You tell me the difficulty level here since I'm not a player myself - 1:44-2:33 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4IRywq-6D4

that song does little for me...i know it's a classic among beefheart fans but it speaks not to me. like i said above..."degree of difficulty"??? very little. he's simply playing single line phrases. no chords. no counterpoint. most HS level students w a yr or two under their belts (and mallets) could play those parts.

now, should you want to see someone with some serious technique and chops on marimba check these out.
(suggestion: they both start fairly simply so if time allows and you're really curious....listen/view thru more than the first min or so before bailing!)

Double Image...with both vibes and marimba! a great way to see hear the dif between the two inst! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30VaBzM_kJc

and the classical deal i posted above. (worth the price of admission for the sound of that inst in that room!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh39-4el-YY

and one more demonstrating some serious chops on marimba. check out the independence/counterpoint. her control over dynamics and how she's able to lean heavier into the melody keeping the top line(s) at the front of the bus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAFIZjuIpvg

Here's where we have a difference of opinion (or musical preference). If a piece moves me, I like it. I could care less about someone's 'intentions' or 'goals' or whatever. If it moves me, I like it. It could be Beefheart or it could be Hank Williams. Genre has nothing to do w/ it at all.

well, yes and no on the "differing" part. See, like you... IF a piece moves me I too "like it"!

But maybe here's where we differ. for me...Intent IS everything. In EVERYTHING!

Let me explain....

If someone says something cutting or harsh to me. I MUST consider their "intent". were they being deliberately nasty or just maybe insensitive.

If i start up a chord progression and I'm vamping on D7 and the horn man starts playing an Ab7 chord over that.... I HAVE to consider their "intent". Are they playing that because they didn't HEAR that I'm playing D7...OR was it their INTENT to play the tritone sub. (either way it WILL sound cool) but their "intent" does make a difference between them intent-ionally doing something hip.....and maybe them not hearing things but just accidentally stumbling onto something cool.

same for a drummer who starts playing a 4/4 groove after i started throwing down a bassline in 5/4. and it's working (or maybe it's not). Again their INTENT.....did they hear that i'm playing 5/4 and they decided to play a polyrhythm against it??? or did they just not recognize that i wasn't playing 5/4. that will make a difference in my "appreciation" of what they're doing.

sure...it's gonna SOUND the same either way....but for me...i'm gonna appreciate and yes JUDGE the move based on the intent.

i can't ignore intent. or what i percieve/judge to be the intent.

W that Beefheart stuff....my perception is that these guys are trying too hard to do something different for the sake of doing something different. to me that smacks a little bit of dishonesty. and i'm not moved by ANYTHING that doesn't ring "honest" to me. so, yeah...in that way "intent" IS all important to me!

Everyone is wired differently upstairs. I understand this so it's not an issue w/ me @ all.

roger that. and it's certainly not an issue w me either. we all have our own likes/dislikes and our own yardsticks. Viva la Difference!

OK for anyone who gives a flying leap, let me do my best to explain the difference between these. I keep waiting for someone else here on BM who plays all of these to step w an explanation but i can see it's on ME to step up.

xylophone....think about a halloween cartoon and there's a skeleton dancing around. 9 times outta 10 the instrument playing that plinky music accompanying it is an xylophone. thin wood bars that are fairly high pitched and have almost zero sustain... so, to sustain a note you have "roll". used mostly in classical music and ragtime.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd9xha3vk58

marimba... also wooden bars but wider and fatter yielding more sustain. lower range that extends/overlaps in it's higher register to xylo like tone on the high notes. they're played in classical music, jazz, mexican music (often two or more players on the same instrument) the most common is a four octave (like mine) but they have extended range marimbas that go quite low. like this one here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh39-4el-YY

vibraphone....this is what you see me playing in my vids. three octaves of aluminum bars. this is credited as being THE only musical instrument invented in the good ol' USA. back in the early '20's i believe. it has a bell like tone and a sustain pedal and damper much like a piano. w damper the notes are stacato (short) and sound more percussive....step on the sustain pedal to release the damper and the bars ring. now...here's what makes it a VIBRAphone. over ea resonoator (tubes that hang down) there are blade that cover the hole at the top...think carberator! they're connected w a rod and there's a variable speed motor that turns them, opening and closing the resonators.....this gives the vibrato.

malletKAT is a midi controller for mallet players. it has rubber pads laid out like the notes of keyboard (just as the other instr are....they're ALL "keyboard percussion" instruments" sharing the keyboard's white note/black note layout. it's a basically a synth that you play w mallets. make sense?

this is my 1942 DEAGAN Dianna 4oct marimba



in the foreground is my 1976 DEAGAN Norvo Commander II vibraphone...behind it a 4 oct malletKAT. and those things on the wall behind 'em are gtrs.

Wood, Plastic, Metal.......its all percussion

you forgot Rumiphone

rumiphone.jpg (28.68 KiB) Viewed 4441 times

well, RG ..i'm talking about a specific percussion family. KEYBOARD percussion instruments. and plastic, wood. or metal....is precisely what colors tone. it's certainly what makes a xylo or marimba sound dif than a vibraphone!

and taking that a little a further.... instead of the traditional rosewood bars that marimba and xylophones use....they make the bars on some cheaper instruments out of KELON a synthetic material.

trust me, helen keller could hear the dif between an instr made w rosewood bars vs. one w KELON bars.

that's an interesting looking contraption you posted a pic of. not familiar w it. and while it has a passing resemblance to tubular bells....it doesn't appear to have the "keyboard" layout of tubular bells.

care to expound?

Ever heard this album, Mark? I bought it for the guitarist and the comic book connection, but the vibes are killer on the whole record.

http://youtu.be/CndW3Uav1V8


http://youtu.be/nFnRz1Qh9aQ

No, i wasn't hip to that or the vibist. i liked the first tune a lot. the second...meh. thanks for hipping me to that!

So you're a fan of Cline, eh? interesting because just a cpl of days ago i was reading an interview w him that made want to further investigate his non Wilco music.

if you haven't seen it....somewhere on ytube there's a deal w him and Julian Lage....they're sitting down jamming and rapping. they also talk equipment. very cool stuff.

Mark - your 1942 marimba seems to have the resonator tubes you mentioned which make the 'vibe' part of the vibraphone.

good eye, Mike..... perhaps even TWO of 'em!

marimbas, xylos, and vibes ALL have resonators to give a little more volume and improve tone. but only vibraphones have the deal w the blades at the top that revolve (via motor) to create "vibrato".

btw.....the resonators while open at the tops (under the bars) are closed at the bottom w "caps" that seal them off there. they are movable and need to be in the right spot or you lose volume and tone... and might even get some ugly wolf tones.