General Chat (Non-Music-Related)

Great statement JosephWTF...EXCEPT YOU MISSED 90% of the EQUATION.

I'm not even going to waste my time trying to explain an issue that is far more complicated than that sort of simplicity.

What? Are you trying to run for a political job or something? RULE THE MASSES OF SHEEP!

Let us talk about 20 TRILLION dollars of national debt that has only been accommodated by a FEDERAL RESERVE, that is just printing money to support a nation... THAT IS BANKRUPT!

Try getting it made here in the states.

That just emphasizes one of the points he's been making all along, manufacturing in this country is gone. For nearly 100 years we had millions of manufacturing jobs here, and the world's best quality products. Clinton signed NAFTA and it's long gone now. Trump had these made elsewhere because it's not done here any more. We've lost something like 9 million manufacturing jobs. And nothing has replaced them. PA steel mill towns are now ghost towns. Textile manufacturing facilities are gone, probably replaced by now near empty malls to sell Chinese garbage. The machine shops I once worked in are gone, it's all made in China now. And people are not happy because the machine work there is crap and the once reliable parts are failing twice as fast. Only a couple of machine shops left here in town, and they're hurting for work. I got out years ago when I looked for a machinist job for 6 months and kept hearing no work everywhere I went. It's all gone to China...thank old Slick Willy for that...it was already started, NAFTA made it cheap and easy. And we get nothing but screwed.

We just looked at the labels on a couple of jelly jars yesterday, Egypt and Turkey. Fender is having guitars made in Mexico and China, most of their amps made in China, Peavey has been made in Meridian Mississippi for many years, even they have started to have amps made in China these days. Ford setting up a $2 billion plant in Mexico, Carrier shutting down here and moving to Mexico, it's cheaper to have everything made overseas and shipped here than to keep manufacturing here. And even if you wanted to, there's no place left here that does it. Trump couldn't have shirts made here, even though I'm betting he wanted to. No textiles made here any more.

That's one of the points he's been making. One of his friends has been using Caterpillar equipment for years, he recently had to switch to foreign made, horrible trade deals have resulted in such a big price difference, Cat equipment is too expensive compared to the cheap crap made overseas. Some is pretty good, Kubota for example, makes a good tractor, Mahindra too. But they've put the American manufacturers out of business and we get no tax revenue out of the deal, lost millions of jobs...and mostly horrible quality.

Just a simple light bulb. I got pulled over a couple of years ago, cop gave me a verbal warning,. license plate light was out. It was the original still working for almost 20 years. So I was literally in the Wal Mart parking lot, (I hate the place but what else is open at 9PM) so I went in and got one. China stamped on everything I could find. It didn't last a year. I've replaced it 3 times in 4 years. I can't find shoes that will last, a year and the soles separate from the rest of the shoe. I just wore out the last Made In USA pair I could find, been wearing them for 10 years before the soles finally separated. Pair of slip on deck shoes lasted under a year and already wearing holes in the uppers. Last pair I had was 6 years old when the soles finally cracked all the way across. And they actually cost more...I've had a half dozen jackets with zippers that broke in 2 years. My US made military camo coat is nearly 20 years old and still works perfect. I have to sew buttons back on now and then...Chinese made coat, plastic zipper broke in 2 years. I've had guitar straps that lasted for 15 years. Last one I bought the strap end wore out in 3 years, almost dropped my guitar one night not long ago, had to replace it. Same vinyl end won't last again...Found it in a resale shop new for a buck, glad I didn't have to pay $20 for it at the local music store...

I could go on and on. Cheap plastic crap everywhere you look, all of it made in China, Pakistan, Mexico, Taiwan...I went to Harbor Freight, grabbed a tire plugging kit. First time I tried to use it the thing broke. Dug out my Made in USA one I've had for 15 years, maybe more. I only got the Chinese one because they didn't have just the plugs. I took it back minus two plugs. Trashed one when the thing broke. It didn't plug ONE damn tire...my old one has gone through at least 25 plugs. My vehicle and others, I haven't had 25 flats...I have Craftsman tools that are 30 years old, still in good shape.

I see cars from the 50's and 60's still on the road, usually rebuilt of course...how many 1980's and 90's models do you still see? How many 2016 cars will still be on the road 40 years from now? Are you joking??? NO I'm not. How many 2016 cars do you really think will be on the road 40 years from now? I could literally stand inside the engine compartment of my 1976 Ford truck and work on it (6 cylinder, I rebuilt it). I can barely get my hands inside a new one to swap out a battery. Electronics all made in China, I'm sure that will last till 2056...

There's a reason those tags say made in China and Bangladesh. It ain't done here no more. Ask the 94 million people who have dropped completely out of the job market. That's almost 1/3 of this country's entire population.

Thanks Billy... You provide an excellent insight, when I get tired of explaining facts to morons. On top of that I am old school and still think you have a great voice...

Merck and Pfizer have been trying to move to a stable tax environment by courting Allergen. Why? Because they can not run a business with unstable laws. Even Ireland looks better. Meanwhile the democrats scream and shout about losing American jobs... They have caused the ANARCHY! BY RULE OF LAW! THEY HAVE CHASED THE CASH COW AWAY!

Trump is a businessman, I fear that even he will not be able to fix the broken balance sheet of the worlds largest corporation... The government of the PEOPLE of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

Keep posting stupid pictures...

And no one ever blames the unions, who gouged employers for exorbitant health care policies, overly high retirement pensions, high wages, blackmail shutdowns, inability to fire lazy or incompetent workers, ..... (The list could go on and on. ) Granted that some companies do not pay well. But who forced you to hire on to them at the point of a gun? If you do not like it you can go work for someone else in a free country, and that is exactly how it used to work here in America. You have workers holding up companies, you have government holding up companies. So are they supposed to simply roll over and play dead, or bend over and let government stick it to them with high taxes and undue regulations and penalties ?

Now the government wants to tell you how much you must pay your entry level UNSKILLED help.

Really? Wait until the meager nothing burger you can afford now triples (at least) in price and people stop buying them and they stop going out to eat. Then many of those food industry workers will also be let go, the work loads on the rest will increase and their places of employment will close. Welcome to obamaland, the liberal utopia of nonsense. Then we can blame those companies along with the rest.

It is said that a worker is worth his wages. Is someone who can't take a simple order for a hamburger without screwing it up worth $15.00 an hour? And you say greedy companies are the sole reason for the demise of manufacturing in America? Bu!!sh*t. Samo Samo crap as the Commies / Marxists / and Socialists always blame they guy who gives you a job so that you can feed your families. .. Always blame someone else for the problem, it is never the guy at the bottom. I'm sick of the whining by the people every bit as responsible for this condition as greed itself. YOU elected the Nimrods who drove away manufacturing. So who's damned fault it it in the long run anyway?

Now bugger sanders is going after Walmart. Do you know how many families depend on them? How many retirement policies they are paying? What their employee health insurance fees cost them? How many jobs they afford Americans? How many products we could not afford at all (even though they are sometimes inferior ... but not always) How about the construction jobs they have created? The shipping jobs and delivery jobs that they have created across America and even world wide? How about the charities they support? Ever give thought to how many products they themselves purchase to keep a chain going? Upkeep and the likes?

No, I'm sure you haven't or some people wouldn't be following the capitalism haters diatribes.and rhetoric And that a fact, Jack. Whining and corporation bashing is the new American way. .Thankless whiners every one... that is the new makeup of America. Once upon a time a man would thank God for even the lowest job, just because he could again feed his family. Can anyone say ingratitude? That is one of the reasons God takes down a nation. Those who know and believe in a living God should understand this.

Hear the word of the Lord. When God gives you manna and you complain, you will go hungry.

Before LBJ's "Great Society" it was possible for a person with only a high school education to own a house, 2 cars, and raise a family with one job.

Once government started "taxing the rich" (yea, right) the middle class began to shrink as small businesses died from the over-regulation and the large corporations who replaced them moved offshore, or sent their manufacturing to other nations.

it's not the business' fault that they need to make a profit....it's the government's fault for taxing all the profit out of them, and the average Democrat voter that falls for their BS about "taxing the rich" every time.

So the next time you hear someone complaining about the "greed" of capitalist businesses, remind them there would be no problem were it not for the greed of federal government (and the gullibility of Democrats), which produce nothing but misery for the people who lose their jobs and have their money devalued because of GOVERNMENT POLICY......not business.

Thanks joey for posting media type ridiculosity.... I know you are a good guy. Now prove it.

Getting back to reality, TED just pointed out was is reality. WTF is wrong with everyone else. Deny your past, you deny your future. So what has changed so much? Maybe it is 100 years of trying to destroy AMERICA.

[quote="Paleopete"]
Clinton signed NAFTA and it's long gone now. Trump had these made elsewhere because it's not done here any more. We've lost something like 9 million manufacturing jobs. And nothing has replaced them. PA steel mill towns are now ghost towns. Textile manufacturing facilities are gone, probably replaced by now near empty malls to sell Chinese garbage. The machine shops I once worked in are gone, it's all made in China now. And people are not happy because the machine work there is crap and the once reliable parts are failing twice as fast. Only a couple of machine shops left here in town, and they're hurting for work. I got out years ago when I looked for a machinist job for 6 months and kept hearing no work everywhere I went. It's all gone to China...thank old Slick Willy for that...it was already started, NAFTA made it cheap and easy. And we get nothing but screwed.

No textiles made here any more.
[\quote]


Man I really hate to break this to you but you have no idea what you are talking about..

Bill Clinton did not initiate NAFTA..

It was started and negotiated by George H.W. Bush.. Clinton had to sign the implementation law cause Bush ran out of time in his term.

----------------------------------------------------------
FROM WIKIPEDIA

Following diplomatic negotiations dating back to 1990 among the three nations, U.S. President George H. W. Bush, Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney and Mexican President Carlos Salinas, each responsible for spearheading and promoting the agreement, ceremonially signed the agreement in their respective capitals on December 17, 1992.[5] The signed agreement then needed to be ratified by each nation's legislative or parliamentary branch.
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NAFTA has nothing to do with China. That is why it is the North American Free Trade Agreement.

No textiles.. Well I guess I better call the plant and tell them that we closed and didn't even know it..

If you are going to spout off at least get the story correct..

Thank you Robert Stone. It is heartening to hear from someone that still has a job.

Naturally some of you do not understand the unions driving a good many corporations out of business due to high wages and benefits YEARS before the Environmental Persecution Agency was ever dreamed up by the Leftist Communists to destroy America, It was before your time. Crooked politicians and union bosses did a lot of damage to corporations.

When I worked as a lab tech for Zenith Radio Corp we made everything right here in America. Right before Christmas union contracts would come up. The company was blackmailed into either enduring a very damaging labor strike during the most profitable time of the year or giving into union thugs. And it was bricks thrown at anyone trying to cross the line in a car, houses shot at and the likes. You Johnny come lately citizens have no clue as to how vicious unions were because more than likely some of your parents had not even met each other during those times..

The wages rose so high that it was not profitable to have chassis made here in the US, so they were made over seas and assembled here. Eventually that also became unprofitable. Zenith eventually closed up here because high labor costs and labor inefficiency and crooked government won out. Like to admit it or not, union greed did play a big part in driving businesses over seas.

I could have expanded my business easily, but government red tape high taxes and unreasonable regulations prevented me from even seriously considering it. Then came the Demands on wheel chair access and the other EPA crap. Wheel chair access to every shop? They couldn't just have someone who wasn't handicapped run an errand?


Unions and the demoncrap party are responsible for a lot of job losses in this country and later on in years the Environmental Persecution Agency And who elected these morons to destroy America industry in the first place? Stupid American single issue voters put them in power in a good many cases. The more things change the more they stay the same. If this election doesn't bear that out nothing will. Believe what you want to believe, listen to the lies and accept the lies that make you feel good, Ignore the obvious truth of a politicians past history and pretend that la la land is just around the corner. None of it is real.

A Traitors 15 minutes ...http://www.infowars.com/gop-delegate-wh ... isogynist/

Another Traitor, this time a Press Prostitute ...http://www.infowars.com/unreal-megyn-ke ... t-charges/

Notice the quiet Vamp? SSSSHHHHH. Idiots sleeping.

Ted - As I often do I agree with most of your post.
Taxing the rich...I've always disagreed with that narrative. That's the one point I disagree with Trump's tax plan, he says he wants to tax wealthy individuals at a higher rate than lower income brackets. Much less than currently, but if one person pays 10% they all should, period. The problem with Democrats and their tax the rich scheme is that they consider anyone making more than $200,000 to be wealthy. That includes most of the small business owners in the country, and small businesses account for most of the jobs. When you hit them with more taxes and regulations, they are forced to put all of their profits into paying taxes and complying with regulations, so they cannot expand, create new jobs, hire new people or give existing ones raises. This goes along with what you said, hit them with excessive taxes and they go somewhere else. I'm not disagreeing with what you posted, just expanding on it.

Badstrat - Unions have been a sore spot of mine for years. Originally, unions served a purpose. 14 year old kids were working in sweat shops under terrible conditions, up to 16 hours a day, no overtime, and even if you were an adult, you couldn't actually make a living. Unions gave employees something they could not get, leverage to get better hours, pay and conditions.

There was one big problem. The mafia was able to weasel its way into union leadership positions, and unions became hopelessly corrupt. As late as the 90's, officials from every union in the country had been convicted of embezzling. Jimmy Hoffa got his start as a mafia strong arm thug, breaking peoples' arms when they didn't pay the local loan shark. He was one of several who forced trucking companies to join the Teamsters Union by hijacking their trucks, beating drivers, bombing or setting trucks on fire and various other violent tactics. During Prohibition the mafia controlled the longshoremen, you couldn't unload a thing in New York Harbor without paying off the mob. They also got heavily involved in politics, donating large amounts of money to politicians usually for favors. Still do.

Everything you posted is true, many large companies eventually had no choice but shut down because of the high cost forced on them by unions. When you have a union going on strike for more money every time you turn around, cost to the consumer goes up, then when it becomes easy to move out of the country and get labor for $3 an hour versus $25 and hour, the decision is a no brainer.

I worked as a time keeper in a Houston refinery, all union except for the timekeepers. Why? They would have a friend punch the clock for them and get paid some $20 an hour while they sat at home, so the plant hired us to walk the plant every day and check every badge number in person. I watched people sit in an office in the dark and refuse to change a light bulb, "that's an electrician's job" they would tell me. It would take all day to get one to come change a simple light bulb. A millwright wouldn't touch it. I often wondered what they did at home when a bulb went out...most of them spent their days sitting in the shop playing cards, making over $20 an hour for it. And going on strike for more money at the drop of a hat.

I also had friends who had to work shut down jobs to rebuild plants that blew up, probably because an incompetent plant hand opened the wrong valve, and they had to bring baseball bats to come to work, when their job had nothing to do with the union. They weren't there to do the union workers' jobs, they were there to rebuild the damn plant.

I have to disagree with you about Wal Mart, I know what a bad company they are to work for. My sister worked there for 6 years, I begged her to leave the last 2 years. They were limited by store policy to 35 or 39 hours a week, so they were not considered full time. One supervisor, not her boss, would order her to work in a department she didn't belong, doing a job she was not supposed to do, when she told him she had to leave, she had her 35 hours in. He would throw a screaming fit and threaten to have her fired so she would go do it. Then she would get chewed out by the store manager for working overtime. That may have been just the one store, but the company wouldn't do a thing about any of it.

Their medical insurance was so expensive nobody but management could afford it. Management was also the only full time employees in the store. And they were all complete jerks. When she was ordered by the same guy to take a 32" TV down from the top shelf, by herself, and not her department, she fell with it and hurt her back, did some hospital time and 2 months off work. Wal Mart refused workman's comp, claiming she was not doing her job and was lying about it. Two other employees finally went to the workman's comp office and confirmed what actually happened, they had to pay workman's comp. The same guy was then even rougher on her.

Horrible company to work for and she was not the only one. About 6 months ago they announced they were dropping their insurance for all employees getting 30 hours or less, I'm betting they've now cut everyone to 30 hours but haven't confirmed it. That's the way they do business.

Vendors are kept to a strict schedule. Delivery trucks cannot show up 10 minutes early or 10 minutes late. Wal Mart will shut down their account for either. They don't set prices, Wal Mart does, you get it for what wally world will pay or you lose a huge contract.

When Sam Walton was alive it was a different story, when his kids took over it went to hell in a handbasket.

I've been using duckduckgo for searches, they claim they don't track you. www.duckduckgo.com . Type in wal mart disability discrimination and look at the long list of disability discrimination cases. I was looking for a particular story and couldn't find it. Wal Mart has been convicted of more discrimination cases than any company in the country, one lawyer said he had never seen such disregard for the law. When I look through the list in that search, I see Boston, Houston, Dallas, Chicago, Virginia, California, Texas, Illinois, Maryland and plenty other cities and states.

Who was next...oh yeah Robert Stone - Read my post. I said Clinton SIGNED the NAFTA act, I did not say he created it. I thought it was Bush who put it together but couldn't remember, but Clinton did sign it. He could have refused.

It may not have been due to NAFTA, but the outsourcing that resulted in "Made in China" stamped all over everything you buy got off to a roaring start while Clinton was in office. I was a machinist when he was elected, before he left I had to get out of that field because the machine shops in this area were completely dead. Manufacturing was long gone in 8 years. Taxes and regulations had a lot to do with it, along with unions. Maybe I was wrong about NAFTA causing it, but I'm sure it had a lot to do with the companies that have moved to Mexico...Fender guitars for example. Not all are made there, Japan and Korea got a good chunk too and the American factory is still in operation as far as I know.

As in Textiles, a few here and there survived, but not many. If you're working in a textile plant, good for you, it's one of very few left on this country.

Right now, I'm listening to it as I type, more small businesses last year went out of business than start ups. Again taxes and regulations. When all of your money is tied up paying taxes and trying to comply with regulations, you don't have the money to expand or create new jobs, in many cases your only choice is to shut down. Ask the coal miners in Kentucky, half of them are already out of business. That's 80% of the state's economy.

The whole thing boils down to government sticking its nose where it does not belong. Even if I was wrong about NAFTA, outsourcing took off like crazy while Clinton was in office. I watched the machine shop I worked for go from all the work we could handle to shut down completely because none could be had, that's why I originally moved to Lufkin. Laid off. I started in that shop working 7 days a week 12 hours a day. I was barely getting 40 hours when the shop shut down, often sweeping floors to have something to do. Now it's out of control, we're paying more for much lower quality, and the money is going overseas, jobs are gone. US corporations are holding around $2 trillion offshore, to avoid the highest corporate tax rate in the world. Civilians are paying far too much taxes, probably close to the world's highest. Government spending is out of control. Obama has implemented more regulations than any other president except for one year, Bush the year of 9-11.

As I've said before, politicians got us here, they won't get us out of this mess. Not one has ever done anything ahead of schedule or under budget. But I bet they would scream if their paychecks were 10 minutes late...Trump announced long ago he will not accept one. If we elect another career politician, this country is dead. If we manage to survive Obama...that still hasn't been proven.