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#239529 by Badstrat
Tue Feb 17, 2015 4:30 am
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... -ammo-ban/

Backdoor Gun Control: Obama’s ATF Proposes AR-15 Ammo Ban


A notice from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) shows the agency is considering a ban on the popular M855 AR-15 round — by re-categorizing the round as “armor piercing.”

Once categorized as “armor piercing,” sales of the M855 rounds can be restricted or banned altogether under language in the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), which describes marketable ammunition as that which is “primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes.”

The ammunition guidelines set forth in the GCA are intended for handguns, but are also being applied to ammunition used in AR-15 rifles because AR-15 pistols fire the same ammunition.

On Friday, the NRA-ILA responded to ATF’s pending ammunition ban, describing it as “a move clearly intended by the Obama administration to repress the acquisition, ownership, and use of AR-15s and other .223 caliber general purpose rifles.” The NRA-ILA made it clear that this is but a “continuation of Obama’s use of his executive authority to impose gun control restrictions and bypass Congress.”

The ATF’s notice makes clear the agency will be accepting “comments for 30 days” prior to finalizing ban. ATF says those comments will be received until March 16, 2015 at APAComments@atf.gov or via snail mail addressed to: Denise Brown, Mailstop 6N-602, Office of Regulatory Affairs, Enforcement Programs and Services, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, 99 New York Avenue, NE, Washington, DC 20226: ATTN: AP Ammo Comments.

And another one. http://patriotpost.us/articles/33184 Remember folks. Your ammunition will be next.
#239531 by DainNobody
Tue Feb 17, 2015 4:54 am
you ever go to the local wal-mart and try to buy .22 rounds? they are always out of stock at the wal-mart where I trade.. why is that? does sporting goods dept. guy got some sort of side deal going on, depriving the public of .22 rounds, when I asked Jeff, (yeah I know him cause he's a regular auction attendee like me) he said the Federal gov't. is buying all of them, and occasionally they get a few tossed their way probably to make it look like the gov't. is not "re-directing" them (.22 rounds) some way..
#239534 by Badstrat
Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:29 am
Dane,

The reason is simple. You can't hunt small game for food with a 9mm. The .22 is the best for small game. Sparrow stew may be a real treat some day in the near future. (Unless you are one hell of a shot with 9mm and up) They need total food control and they are getting it. Almost everyone who owns a gun owns a .22

On second thought, maybe the .22 was the first round to be banned.
#239539 by ANGELSSHOTGUN
Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:17 pm
I don't agree with sending our men into battle with such a puny round. The idea is to wound the enemy and not destroy them. The thinking is casualties cost a war machine more in resources than a dead corpse. Very humane.

223 is a girls round. This is about nibbling away any rights given by God, to self preservation. Armor piercing, yeah right... Don't shoot me with one of those things... You'll only piss me off.

I won't say 223 isn't fun to shoot, it is very fun to shoot. Even a girlie girl can get good range and accuracy... As far as being dangerous, I wouldn't count on it in a shoot out. NAAAHHH , This is all about disarming us and leaving us to some maniac in a position of power, zuch as a hitler mein herr. LOL.
#239563 by Paleopete
Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:45 pm
Not to mention their "Operation Choke Point". Started by the Justice Department ( remember Eric Holder, govt gun runner?) not too long ago, the govt is pressuring banks to shut down the accounts of certain "high risk" businesses...like payday loan operations, gun shops, I think pawn shops...and without a checking account your business is dead in the water. This is not a law, it's a policy.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volo ... oke-point/

Then again, it may be that they are backing off, according tot his article. I'll believe it when I see it...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volo ... oke-point/
#239574 by ANGELSSHOTGUN
Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:49 am
Not to mention that some want a law to mark every cartridge fired with a stamp on the case. WHAT???
Any moron with any knowledge of fire arms would know most are center fired an the hammer doesn't even touch the cartridge.

This is the weakest attempt at control I have ever seen. What next... Every round must be micro chipped and recorded into national registry in the event it is fired.

The noose tightens... Let's make sure the neck tie party is for the proper useless eaters.
#239608 by Badstrat
Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:55 am
You do realize that this is more about setting precedence for violating the "shall make no infringements" portion of the 2nd. Once they "infringe" on the ,223 , they can infringe on every caliber round. That's what crooked scabs of society lawyers do.
#239609 by ANGELSSHOTGUN
Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:40 am
I absolutely understand that Badstrat. Any gun is useless without ammo. This is all about disarming the sheep. hitler had to do it. Every sadistic dictator that has ever come along has had to do it. Now it is starting here in America.

This is no longer about peaceful people that would have tremendous trouble taking another human life. This is about the terrorists that we have voted into positions of power. This is totally about ensuring the sheep are helpless for the final take down of America.

Where is the outrage?... I ... Don't... Know...
#239622 by Badstrat
Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:55 pm
Glen,

Do you remember hearing this? I heard the actual audio on the Glen Beck program several years ago. Someone had a tape recorder going during this meeting and leaked it.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/po ... -americans

Obama's Friend Ayers: Kill 25 Million Americans
Written by William F. Jasper

AyersBarack Obama's longtime association with unrepentant Weather Underground terrorists Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn has caused the presidential candidate some serious political problems. In spite of efforts by Obama's friends in the media to suppress, contain, or explain away the issue, more information about the Ayers-Obama ties has continued to come out.

In recent weeks, a number of websites have posted text, audio, or video of an interview with Larry Grathwohl from the 1982 video documentary No Place to Hide: The Strategy and Tactics of Terrorism by the Western Goals Foundation. I worked on that video as a researcher and went undercover into some of the terrorist groups and their support networks. Larry Grathwohl was one of the experts/witnesses we interviewed for the documentary. He had been undercover inside the Weather Underground and had worked closely with Ayers, Dohrn, and their fellow terrorists.

In No Place to Hide, Grathwohl explains that the Weathermen actually believed that they would be successful in overthrowing the U.S. government and that, with the help of the Cubans, Chinese, Russians, and North Vietnamese, they would occupy America. Americans would have to be "re-educated" in camps, similar to what the communists did in Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, and other countries they had taken over. Here is one of the chilling revelations Larry Grathwohl made in the film:

I asked, "Well what is going to happen to those people we can't reeducate, that are diehard capitalists?" And the reply was that they'd have to be eliminated.

And when I pursued this further, they estimated they would have to eliminate 25 million people in these reeducation centers.

And when I say "eliminate," I mean "kill."

Twenty-five million people.

I want you to imagine sitting in a room with 25 people, most of which have graduate degrees, from Columbia and other well-known educational centers, and hear them figuring out the logistics for the elimination of 25 million people and they were dead serious.
#239625 by Vampier
Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:31 pm
Very excellent Post and Posts....The insidious little chess game continues. The weasels and govt Filth are so busy with their little meetings, treaties, agreements, unions, theft of Freedom and Rights ... that they are not even aware that the spindly misshapen limb they are defecating upon has nearly rotted off.

And worse still all those "citizens" who have been castrated and lobotomised by those filth they think they elected ... and even now they are "giving" their dubious opinions about what should happen the next "election" ... these masses of tumour ridden pustules are in Truth much worse than the Filth that Lies and Leads them all to the "shower room".

One must laugh loudly in utter frustration when confronted by these moronic pieces of pure unadulterated and full y compromised, dumbed down, conditioned cretans. But we are all slated to suffer because of their lack of character, morality and intellect.
#239633 by ANGELSSHOTGUN
Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:14 am
Vamp, that was one great post. You are such an artistic straight forward shooter. Sorry that was great. Your last two paragraphs summed up more than the average sheep can understand. I really liked that one because you didn't spend as much time as you usually do trying to teach the sheep. You cut right to the chase.

Badstrat... I don't understand how a killer like ayers is out on the streets. Two sets of laws, one for the controlled and one for the slaves.
#239634 by Badstrat
Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:04 am
" But we are all slated to suffer because of their lack of character, morality and intellect."

I only have a problem with that last part. God has always chosen leaders that reflect the attitudes and morality of the people they govern. It has been that way from the beginning.

How many babies are murdered every year? How many credit cards have cash back programs just for using their cards? Nothing wrong with that? God says do not collect usury from your brother, yet these company's rob those who are unable to pay to give rewards to others, making them co conspirators in the credit card crime scheme to rob their brothers. How many people consider that? God says not to commit adultery, yet almost 1/2 or more of the marriages are adulterous unions. God says do not to lie? How many advertisers lie to you? How many people you do business with lie to you? How many companies lie to you period? How many banks rip you off? How many people in America are Shacking up? God say do not fornicate yet.... why bother to continue?

Yes, all this sounds as if it is from a time warp because we have gotten so used to the world system of doing things and so far from the way God told us how to act. But you say things change.... God never changes, and neither do his principles. This is not an indictment on America, it is simply the factual ungodly America that we do not wish to face. It is this way all over the world. It is an explanation as to why we are where we are.

Who does God punish? Upon whom does God send his wrath? The Jew and the Christian, in order that they might repent and change their ways. We are simply receiving the rewards of our behavior. No offense meant to anyone, but if you read how a society is supposed to behave under the laws of God, and look at how we are behaving as a society you can see that we have completely missed the mark. When I look back at how I have lived my life I shudder. I recall violations all the way back when I was a little kid just learning to sin against God.

Forgiven, yes. Forgotten, no. What we sow, so shall we reap. We are in the early reaping stage.
#239877 by Badstrat
Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:35 pm
Forget Congress. 'Dictator in chief' unleashes newest attack on guns. I heard today our dictator will ban the manufacturing and sale of .233 by Fiat. The ban on all ammunition to follow in due time. They claim we can keep our .22 ammo. Oh wait a minute, the regime already has kept .22 rounds off the market. ( "Shall not infringe upon" ring a bell to anyone?)
We are under a full banana republic dictatorship and no one cares and no one can do anything about it. We have a Congress and Senate in full lockstep with this dictatorship.
First the ammo, then conservatives, patriots, constitution supporters and those who believe in God. After you have helped them get rid of these they shall come for the rest of you. You own property? That's not fair to those who do not own property. It is wrong to rub that in their faces.. get the picture? Is your house too big? We have a family that would better be served by living in it. Does your car use too much gas? Do you take too many unnecessary trips? Do you eat too much meat? Why do you want to cross state lines? Why are you going out of town? Soon all political speech will be banned. Soon all Internet free speech will be banned. Today the term "Illegal immigrant" was banned by heir dictator. They are now to be called "Americans in Waiting" declared the Fuhrer

And all the sheep snaped to attention and yelled "Sieg heil mein fuhrer"

WND Exclusive

http://www.wnd.com/2015/02/dictator-in- ... k-on-guns/

'Dictator in chief' unleashes newest attack on guns

Obama 'doubles down,' thinks 'he can go around Congress'
Published: 02/16/2015 at 8:15 PM
author-image Leo Hohmann About | Email | Archive
Leo Hohmann is a news editor for WND. He has been a reporter and editor at several suburban newspapers in the Atlanta and Charlotte, North Carolina, areas and also served as managing editor of Triangle Business Journal in Raleigh, North Carolina.
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Today, it’s legal. Tomorrow, it might not be.

By executive fiat, the Obama administration intends to eliminate one of the most common types of .223-caliber ammunition, used by the AR-15 and other general-purpose rifles.

Why? Ostensibly because a type of handgun developed in recent years is also capable of firing the so-called “armor-piercing” or “green-tipped” rounds traditionally fired only by rifles.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives announced on Feb. 14 a proposed ban on the manufacture, sale or importation of a popular form of ammunition used by thousands of law-abiding gun owners. Within hours of the announcement, the prices on the green-tipped .223-caliber rounds started skyrocketing.

The rule change affects the Gun Control Act of 1968 as amended by Congress in 1986. Under pressure from the law-enforcement lobby, Congress in 1986 inserted language into the law designed to prevent so-called “cop killer” bullets from being used by pistol-toting criminals.

The law was never intended in its original form to affect ammunition for rifles, as it was a given that rounds from any high-powered hunting rifle could penetrate the soft armor worn by officers.

“This is just another example of the Obama administration using executive authority to attack the rights of gun owners,” said Alan Gottlieb, founder and executive vice president of the Second Amendment Foundation. “Obama thinks he is ‘dictator in chief’ and can go around Congress to ban ammunition and punish legitimate gun owners. The Obama administration has doubled down on their war on gun owners.”

The Conservative Tribune said the move was an obvious political ploy.

“Obama is really stretching saying that M855 ammunition is an ‘armor piercing’ round being used in a handgun. The goal is obviously political… to ban common ammo to undermine the Second Amendment,” the Tribune said. “The White House knows that it can’t ban the firearms so going after the ammunition is the next best thing.”

Jerry Henry, executive director of GeorgiaCarry.org, was equally outraged by the announcement.

“This move is nothing less than this administration taking the law into their own hands, bypassing Congress and their constitutional duties of writing and passing legislation,” Henry told WND.

As was the case with amnesty for illegal immigrants, Obama is using executive action to adopt a controversial agenda that lacks support in Congress or among the American people, Henry said.

“This administration has failed to pass gun-control legislation through the constitutional process. They have failed at the polls to pass meaningful gun control, and they have failed to win in the courts,” he said. “The only way left is through illegal processes and backdoor regulations. The American people have spoken to the gun-control antics of this administration, but this administration refuses to listen.”

Henry said the “master-servant” relationship between American citizens and those who hold the reins of government power is slowly being reversed. The people, who used to be the master, are now becoming the servants of those in government.

“If this is not stopped and stopped now, this administration will continue to push their agenda to disarm the American citizens with the goal of making them slaves to the U.S. government,” he said. “Citizens have the right to be armed. Slaves to the U.S. government will have no such right.”

The bullet in question is the ubiquitous M855 ball ammunition, which would be reclassified into the realm of “armor-piercing.” Currently, the M855 ball, .223-caliber round is under the exemption from the “armor piercing” category because it is “primarily intended for sporting purposes.”

The National Rifle Association said in a statement the M855 ball should have never been classified as “armor piercing” to begin with.

The original rule defined armor piercing as “a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely … from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium.” Because there are now handguns capable of firing M855, it “may be used in a handgun.” It does not, however, have a core made of the metals listed in the law; rather, it has a traditional lead core with a steel tip, and therefore should never have been considered “armor piercing,” the NRA said.

More executive actions coming?

The decision continues the Obama administration’s use of his executive authority to impose its agenda and bypass Congress.

It also illustrates the government’s expert use of incrementalism. First, the Congress and then-President Ronald Reagan banned “armor piercing” bullets in 1986, with certain exceptions. Then a later president comes back decades later and removes one of the most common exceptions.

“If he gets by with this, I believe he will not stop in his efforts to disarm us via regulations,” Henry, of GeorgiaCarry, told WND.

The NRA also noted the trend.

“It isn’t even the third week of February, and the BATFE has already taken three major executive actions on gun control,” according to the NRA statement. “First, it was a major change to what activities constitute regulated ‘manufacturing’ of firearms. Next, BATFE reversed a less-than-year-old position on firing a shouldered ‘pistol.’ Now, BATFE has released a ‘Framework for Determining Whether Certain Projectiles are ‘Primarily Intended for Sporting Purposes’ Within the Meaning of 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(c),’ which would eliminate M855’s exemption to the armor-piercing ammunition prohibition and make future exemptions nearly impossible.”

Dan Cannon of GunsSaveLives.net said online prices for affected .223-caliber ammo started soaring within 48 hours of when the government’s proposed rule change was announced. That’s if you could even find an online vendor that had the rounds in stock at the new “low” price of 50 cents per round.

“Online prices are up to around $0.50/round shipped, although very few vendors still have ammo in stock at that price. Other vendors are charging upward of $1.00/round shipped,” Cannon wrote in his blog Sunday. Before the rule was announced on Friday night, M855 could be found “fairly readily for about $0.34-38/round if you bought a full case,” Cannon said.

Gottlieb said his guess is as good as anyone’s as to where Obama will strike next in his war against gun ownership. But he has proven one thing: He doesn’t need Congress.

“Obama will use his executive powers to do as much damage as he can get away with,” he said. “This is not the end of his attack on Second Amendment rights.”

And ordinary American gun owners are beginning to take notice.

Paul Glosser, a captain at the Marion, Ohio, Fire Department, posted on the Facebook site of Guns Magazine, that concerned gun owners should contact their members of Congress and ask them to “defund” the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms.

“Get on the phone, write/email your senator(s)/rep, make sure your voice is heard,” Glosser posted. “Ask them to defund ATF and to passing legislation that either permanently exempts M855 or better yet clarifies the AP law as intended to include only rounds designed for use in handguns (per intent).”

Once the new rule goes into effect, the Bureau says it will grant the “sporting purposes” exception to only two categories of projectiles:

Category I: .22 Caliber Projectiles
A .22 caliber projectile that otherwise would be classified as armor piercing ammunition under 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(B) will be considered to be “primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes” under section 921(a)(17)(C) if the projectile weighs 40 grains or less AND is loaded into a rimfire cartridge.

Category II: All Other Caliber Projectiles
Except as provided in Category I (.22 caliber rimfire), projectiles that otherwise would be classified as armor piercing ammunition will be presumed to be “primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes” under section 921(a)(17)(C) if the projectile is loaded into a cartridge for which the only handgun that is readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade is a single shot handgun. ATF nevertheless retains the discretion to deny any application for a “sporting purposes” exemption if substantial evidence exists that the ammunition is not primarily intended for such purposes.

How to file public comment

ATF said in its announcement it “will carefully consider all comments, as appropriate, received on or before March 16, 2015, and will give comments received after that date the same consideration if it is practical to do so, but assurance of consideration cannot be given except as to comments received on or before March 16, 2015.”

Submit comments in any of three ways (but do not submit the same comments multiple times or by more than one method):
ATF email: APAComments@atf.gov
Fax: (202) 648-9741.

Mail: Denise Brown, Mailstop 6N-602, Office of Regulatory Affairs, Enforcement Programs and Services, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, 99 New York Avenue, NE, Washington, DC 20226: ATTN: AP Ammo Comments.

FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: Denise Brown, Enforcement Programs and Services, Office of Regulatory Affairs, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, U.S. Department of Justice, 99 New York Avenue, NE, Washington, DC 20226; telephone: (202) 648-7070.

Contact the offices above to object...... Great IDEA!! ....Then they can place your name on the list of domestic terrorists. :)
#240642 by rose611058153
Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:48 am
The reason is simple. You can't hunt small game for food with a 9mm. The .22 is the best for small game. Sparrow stew may be a real treat some day in the near future. (Unless you are one hell of a shot with 9mm and up) They need total food control and they are getting it. Almost everyone who owns a gun owns a .22
#240671 by MikeTalbot
Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:50 am
Glen

Not sure I agree with you about the .556. I carried a FN FAL (7.62) which is a lovely weapon with a lot of hitting power - then I switched to my all time favorite which was AK-47 and still a good sized punch.

My CO carried an AR . He tagged a cat that was coming out of bunker and the Major shot him in the upper back - it came out the lower front, incapacitating that guy immediately.


All the calibers I mentioned pretty much knocked folks out of the fight or killed them.

So they are passable rounds in their way. Ironically Delta/Rangers etc were not happy with the green tip rounds all this hoopla has been about in Mog - they worked but were over penetrative and required a lot of hits to disable a bad guy.

So I guess the moral of the story is they all work. It's a lucky soldier who can make his own choice though.

Funny thing is that like you - I've never cared for the Stoner variants. Although to my own surprise the M-4 is growing on me. Probably because it's the first one of the line to actually look cool! That matters damn it! 8)

Talking about rifles reminds of how comical I find it when folks talk about their favorite pistol rounds having massive knock down power!

Talbot

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