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#232693 by JCP61
Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:28 pm
so you are a jew then?
commanded to observe the jewish tradition?

i see well I am not a jew so I can't speak to how they handle it.

though paul addressed circumcision

Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.

Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.

You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope.

For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:07 am
It appears Vamp is right. Radioactive fallout from Fukishima is starting to turn up in western salmon fisheries. :(
#233433 by Vampier
Sun May 11, 2014 11:45 pm
Glen I thank you for your Post. I have been rather busy but will Post shortly.

#233435 by XhaDoW-6
Mon May 12, 2014 1:24 am
i see this thread is still going strong
#233498 by Vampier
Tue May 13, 2014 6:58 pm
#233499 by Vampier
Tue May 13, 2014 7:05 pm
XhaDo 6 Ihope you are still playing your unique and awesome guitar.
#233539 by Vampier
Thu May 15, 2014 1:23 am
....Glen, Ta for the Posts. Yes it was visible from the desert but I only caught the end of it ... we fell asleep waiting ... like getting all dressed up to go out and laying down just for a minute and .... zzzzzz. Thank you for the new email, should I use that one now instead of the old one.

gt Zip ... that was excellently worded and beautiful. Thank You
#233608 by Vampier
Sun May 18, 2014 9:20 pm
... The Jesuit Pope or Black Pope is visiting Israel soon to claime the property promised in 1917 in Jerusalem. many believe that what is called The Tribulation is about to begin. Something to sing about. The Zionist Netenyahu is about to fulfill his purpose.

#233609 by VinnyViolin
Sun May 18, 2014 11:37 pm

#233613 by VinnyViolin
Mon May 19, 2014 3:05 am
Vampier wrote:... many believe that what is called The Tribulation is about to begin.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Views of the Tribulation

Futurist view:
In the futurist view of Christian eschatology, the Tribulation is a relatively short period of time where anyone who chose not to follow God up until the Rapture and was therefore left behind (according to Pre-Tribulation doctrine, not Mid- or Post-Tribulation teaching) will experience worldwide hardships, disasters, famine, war, pain, and suffering, which will wipe out more than 75% of all life on the earth before the Second Coming takes place.

According to Dispensationalists who hold the futurist view, the Tribulation is thought to occur before the Second Coming of Jesus and during the End Times. Another version holds that it will last seven years in all, being the last of Daniel's prophecy of seventy weeks. This viewpoint was first made popular by John Nelson Darby in the 19th century and was recently popularized by Hal Lindsey in The Late Great Planet Earth. It is theorized that each week represents seven years, with the timetable beginning from Artaxerxes' order to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem (the Second Temple). After seven plus 62 weeks, the prophecy says that the messiah will be cut off , which is taken to correspond to the death of Christ. This is seen as creating a break of indeterminate length in the timeline, with one week remaining to be fulfilled.

This seven-year week may be further divided into two periods of 3.5 years each, from the two 3.5-year periods in Daniel's prophecy where the last seven years are divided into two 3.5-year periods, (Daniel 9:27) The time period for these beliefs is also based on other passages: in the book of Daniel, time, times, and half a time , interpreted as a year, two years, and half a year, and the Book of Revelation, a thousand two hundred and threescore days& and forty and two months (the prophetic month averaging 30 days, hence 1260/30 = 42 months or 3.5 years). The 1290 days of Daniel 12:11, (rather than the 1260 days of Revelation 11:3), is thought to be the result of either a simple intercalary leap month adjustment, or due to further calculations related to the prophecy, or due to an intermediate stage of time that is to prepare the world for the beginning of the millennial reign.[3]

Among futurists there are differing views about what will happen to Christians during the Tribulation:

Pretribulationists believe that all Christians (dead and alive) will be taken bodily up to Heaven (called the Rapture) before the Tribulation begins.[4][5][6] According to this belief, every true Christian that has ever existed throughout the course of the entire Christian era will be instantaneously transformed into a perfect resurrected body, and will thus escape the trials of the Tribulation. Those who become Christians after the rapture will live through (or perish during) the Tribulation. After the Tribulation, Christ will return to establish His Millennial Kingdom.
Prewrath Tribulationists believe the Rapture will occur during the tribulation, halfway through or after, but before the seven bowls of the wrath of God.
Seventh Trumpet Tribulationists believe the rapture will occur during the tribulation, halfway through or after, but before the seven bowls of the wrath of God. Specifically, at the sound of the Seventh Trumpet (Rev. 11:15, 1 Cori. 15:52).[citation needed]
Midtribulationists believe that the Rapture will occur halfway through the Tribulation, but before the worst part of it occurs. The seven-year period is divided into halves the beginning of sorrows and the great tribulation .
Posttribulationists believe that Christians will not be taken up into Heaven, but will be received or gathered by Christ into the Kingdom of God on earth at the end of the Tribulation. Immediately after the tribulation ... then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man [Jesus] ... and he shall gather his elect (Matthew 24:29 31; Mark 13:2 27 Luke 21:25 27). Posttribulationists argue that the seventh trumpet mentioned in Revelation is also the last trumpet mentioned in 1 Corinthians 15:52, and that there is a strong correlation between the events mentioned in Isaiah 27:13, Matthew 24:29-31, and 1 Thessalonians 4:16 thus creating a strong parallel, proving that the rapture occurs after the tribulation. Therefore, Posttribulationists see the rapture happening during the seventh trumpet, which would only mean that the rapture can never happen before the tribulation according to this view. Significantly, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 states he dead in Christ shall rise first (the first resurrection) and Revelation 20:4-5 (after chapters 6-19 and after Satan is bound) says, they came to life, and reigned with Christ a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection! The idea of a post-tribulation rapture can also be read into 2 Peter 3:10-13 where Christ's return is equated with the elements being melted and he earth also and the works therein shall be burned up. [improper synthesis?]

In pretribulationism and midtribulationism, the Rapture and the Second Coming (or Greek, par[a]ousia) of Christ are separate events, while in post-tribulationism the two events are identical or simultaneous. Another feature of the pre- and mid-tribulation beliefs is the idea that after the Rapture, Christ will return for a third time (when also counting the first coming) to set up his kingdom on the earth.[citation needed]

Some, including many Roman Catholic theologians, do not believe in a time of trouble period as usually described by tribulationists, but rather that there will be a near utopian period led by the Antichrist.

Many other groups, such as Jehovah's Witnesses, do not believe in a Rapture at any point.[7] According to Jehovah's Witnesses, the Great Tribulation is soon to arrive. This period will see the destruction of Babylon the Great, the Great Harlot, as spoken of in Revelation. After Babylon the Great has been removed, they say, the world powers shall move against God's chosen people for a short while. This will then usher in the ending of this world (not the earth, but the removal of all those who do not wish to follow God by standards) according to their understanding of Proverbs 2:21-22. The Great Tribulation ends with the battle of Armageddon.[8][9]

Preterist view

In the Preterist view, the Tribulation took place in the past when Roman legions destroyed Jerusalem and its temple in AD 70 during the end stages of the First Jewish Roman War, and it only affected the Jewish people rather than all mankind.

Christian preterists believe that the Tribulation was a divine judgment visited upon the Jews for their sins, including rejection of Jesus as the promised Messiah. It occurred entirely in the past, around 70 AD when the armed forces of the Roman Empire destroyed Jerusalem and its temple.

A preterist discussion of the Tribulation has its focus on the Gospels, in particular the prophetic passages in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21, rather than on the Apocalypse or Book of Revelation. (Preterists apply much of the symbolism in the Revelation to Rome, the Cesars, and their persecution of Christians, rather than to the Tribulation upon the Jews.)

Jesus' warning in Matthew 24:34 that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled is tied back to his similar warning to the Scribes and the Pharisees that their judgment would come upon this generation (Matthew 23:36), that is, during the first century rather than at a future time long after the Scribes and Pharisees had died. The destruction in 70 AD occurred within a 40-year generation from the time when Jesus gave that discourse.

The judgment on the Jewish nation was executed by the Roman legions, the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet (Matthew 24:15), which Luke presented to his Gentile audience, unfamiliar with Daniel, as armies surrounding Jerusalem to cause its desolation. (Luke 21:20)

Since Matthew 24 begins with Jesus visiting the Jerusalem Temple and pronouncing that there shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down (vs. 3), preterists see nothing in Scripture to indicate that another Jewish temple will ever be built. The prophecies were all fulfilled on the then-existing temple that Jesus spoke about and that was subsequently destroyed within that generation.

Historicist view

The Historicist view applies Tribulation to the period known as persecution of the saints (Daniel 7, Revelation 13). This is believed by some to have been a period after the falling away when papal Rome came to power for 1260 years from 538 to 1798 (using the Day-year principle). They believe that the tribulation is not a future event.[10][11] Matthew's reference to ;great tribulation (Matthew 24:29) as parallel to Revelation 6:12-13, having ended when the signs and wonders began in the late 18th century.[12]

Historicists are prone to see prophecy fulfilled down through the centuries and even in today's world. Thus, instead of expecting a single Antichrist to rule the earth during a future Tribulation period, Martin Luther, John Calvin and the other Protestant Reformers saw the Antichrist as a present feature in the world of their time, fulfilled in the papacy.

Relativistic critique

The anticipation of worldwide hardships, disasters, famine, war, pain, and suffering anticipated by Christians, mainly in the Western world, is predicated on a scenario of increased distress, deprivation and misery set against a pre-existent state of relative comfort, prosperity, security and peace. However, in many parts of the world, the predominant environment meets the criteria for the "Great Tribulation" most of the time, and has done so for many centuries. Since biblical times, much of the planet's population has suffered the ravages of droughts and famines, extreme weather, plagues, chronic warring conflicts, natural disasters and unremitting poverty and disease in endlessly repeating cycles. Such a predicament continues to this day in many parts of, for example, Africa, the Middle East and Asia. A theology based on the spread of an already pre-existent scenario can be criticized as denying the time-worn sufferings of the many and focusing on the chronologically brief problems of the relatively few.

#233656 by MikeTalbot
Tue May 20, 2014 1:10 am
As a hard core conservative Lutheran (sola scriptura etc) it is for me, as I told a Baptist pal: "I don't believe in this rapture stuff, but I hope I'm wrong and you're right!"


#233673 by harry1004483
Tue May 20, 2014 10:15 am
Hi Vampier...could you check your band emails in your hotmail account. I have sent you a message.


#233840 by Vampier
Sat May 24, 2014 1:02 am
......Harry I thank you and of course... I shall send you an email shortly.

Talbot ... take care of yourself. I believe that soon we may not be able to communicate quite so readily and if so then perhaps we shall meet in the next dream ... I certainly hope so.

...Planet Guy I thank you for the excellent link ... well timed. Take care of yourself and yours. Do not ever lose that annoying thing you have and do. Be Well.

More to come . The Pacific is dying and thus it is the same with all the others. Now Fukushima goes critical and so does the Northern Hemisphere.
#233841 by Vampier
Sat May 24, 2014 1:05 am
... I thank you for your as usual excellent Post. Big Meteor Shower tomorrow, worthy of note.

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