General Music Chat

OF COURSE my earlier posts were opinion.

I stated my OPINION that I believe she's guilty of wrongdoing. What that wrongdoing is can EASILY be confirmed by teh DOJ obtaining warrants and raiding the IRS files, emails, and phone logs, among many other physical evidence sources.

I stated my OPINION that I believe she was within her rights to refuse to talk. The 5th amendment gives us the RIGHT to stfu at any point in questioning, when such questioning will lead to self-incrimination. The 5th is written in a way that appears to be intentionally vague. Any 4th grader can form an argument for or against the use of the 5th outside of a criminal trial, which this was not.

You keep bringing up this lawyer who in YOUR OPINION, is smarter than all other lawyers (who are arguing on both sides of how the 5th applies to a congressional inquiry), and who you feel owns the trademark on understanding the exact interpretation of the 5th. Well, sorry, but he doesn't. Feel free to use him as a source, but don't pretend he's the end-all of it. He's not. He's just another guy among many who are qualified and staking an opinion based on their interpretation of the amendment. Stop acting like you win just because you agree with one side of the argument. It's dishonest and frankly, it's insulting my intelligence.

I did enough investigation to learn that she's not the first person to invoke the 5th at a congressional inquiry. In fact, she's not the 50th. Or the 100th person either. Where was your outrage when john poindexter or oliver north invoked the 5th?? Where was the outrage when Kenneth lay and charles keating invoked the 5th?? And where was the outrage when monica goodling invoked the 5th?? All the above, done at congressional inquiries.

But this is bigger than watergate, right? right?

Hypocrite.

None of that is the point Kramer. So what is yours?

I think my point was pretty clear, and more than on topic. You are dodging everything that doesn't fit your specific point of view. I think the discussion is at an end because of that.

Dude I think you better go back and read the initial thread.
You are the one that has twisted this to the point that you are defending Lerner with opinion, conjecture and interpretation of your scholarly advice.

This is not even about Lois Lerner... As a public official she must be held accountable to a higher authority than a non public representative.

This is about your freedoms, that I will staunchly defend. Unfortunately all I see from you... Is a man arguing for his own limitations. Good luck with that.

I love the fact that when your logic falls apart... The discussion is over. Didn't Lerner just try that?

Dude I think you better get a grip on the fact that we have government agencies that are OUT OF CONTROL.

They got guns to protect their jobs. You want to explain that????

I am amazed at what happens when people get caught causing all sorts of BULL.

The defenders stop talking because there is no defense.

Obama has allowed this administration, to become a regime of domestic terrorists.

Should I stop short of calling our president a traitor to the Constitution of The United States? Our Bill of Rights?

A man is only as good as his word... Our president is no man, his word has been reversed far to many times.

Don't blame me. I don't vote for false prophets.

I have nothing to hide... I will never have to take the 5th. How about you?

I guess most of you don't see the ultimate abuse of power. Here is a reminder...


We have all heard the term civil disobedience. It is a term used to describe any action that goes against the authority of the the powers granted to maintain a stable community. This is to mean a government granted the authority to prevent anarchy and chaos. This is essential to provide a stable environment where a community can prosper in relative safety.

However I would be inclined to point out a similar phrase, that must be understood as well. Governmental disobedience. This is the United States of America. This is a nation of free men and women that have chosen to allow a government under THEIR AUTHORITY... to surrender some of their choices for the greater good of the community. In other words some of us would rather drive on the left side of the road but instead we all agree to drive on the right. It helps to avoid chaos.

However at what point are we surrendering our authority to a government that is suddenly empowered by it's own will. At what point does a government overstep that fine line, and by the very belief that the power imbued is actually from the governments very own existence.

At that point we have opened the doors to something far worse than anarchy. We have opened the doors to tyranny and GOVERNMENTAL DISOBEDIENCE!

When our government at all levels, national, state , local, and even towns, start to make decisions without the true consent of the people... Usually the reasoning starts with... I was elected by the people because they trust my judgment in all the matters that I was elected for. That includes any reasoning that could influence my decisions... even if the outcome is different than the perceived values that got me elected in the first place.

The problem is that we have empowered a person. A person that is also another human being the same as every one that elected him. Prone to human frailties, anger, prejudice, pet projects, and loves. Prone to mistakes and prone to pride, greed and a long list of human qualities.

Once we have empowered this elected official it is then we must be very mindful of the very reason we have allowed a government to moderate our freedoms. A government is meant to arbitrate our petty differences for the good of the whole community. A government is meant to provide stable rules and laws. I use the word stable because every law throughout history usually has some stable basis or precedent. If laws where just changed overnight and on a continual basis, it would only lead to the very anarchy we are trying to avoid to begin with. All this law making must not be approached with just a casual attitude of the man empowered by the fact of his election. It must be approached with the gravity and tremendous responsibility allowed, If we are to maintain a free society.

Once this relationship between government and a free people is corrupted in any way or manner, the out cry should be overwhelming. At that point we have reached, the point of governmental disobedience. That is the point where the government is more important than the people and the power is no longer coming from the true authority. THE PEOPLE. WE THE PEOPLE.



Under the nazi regime... Lois Lerner would have been immediately taken outside and... TERMINATED.

I am amazed at what happens when people get caught causing all sorts of BULL.

The defenders stop talking because there is no defense.

Obama has allowed this administration, to become a regime of domestic terrorists.

Should I stop short of calling our president a traitor to the Constitution of The United States? Our Bill of Rights?

A man is only as good as his word... Our president is no man, his word has been reversed far to many times.

Don't blame me. I don't vote for false prophets.

I have nothing to hide... I will never have to take the 5th. How about you?

Your words are true. Yet many feel that it is better to bask in the wisdom of fools.

I love that picture Kramer...

You blowing smoke out your you know what.

When Bush was President over 8 years, the head of the IRS visited him 4 times.



In the 5 years that Obama has been in office, the head of the IRS has visited 157 times. Yet coincidentally, no one at the White House knew that the IRS was targeting Obama's political opposition while championing every leftist cause sent to them in that same time frame.

I'm sure there's nothing here to look at folks, move along....


http://www.wnd.com/2013/06/322-irs-visi ... at_orig=us

I think the figure was revised up... 159 Easter egg hunts.

Actually there were at least 322 visits by officials of the IRS, but only 159 of those were by the head of the IRS, James Clapper, who can't remember what was discussed at even one of those visits.



.

Clapper was only in favor of the black Easter eggs.

DOESN'T that make him a RACIST?

Isn't this interesting?

Obama & Holder claim that they are legitimately spying & snooping on every American in order to find terrorists...yet they aren't looking in the one place they will actually find terrorists. Yes, that's right....mosques are apparently off-limits and get their 501c3 status approved by the IRS immediately.

This ought to tell you whose side they are on...and it ain't yours.


http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorial ... z2W5NsFmp7

Almost a year later this LOIS LERNER has removed herself from a position that wielded tremendous power against individuals and not for profit groups that exercised their first amendment RIGHTS.

LOIS LERNER did not like the supreme court ruling that granted free political speech for tax exempt organizations... Even if it goes against the powers that are earning and paying the paychecks that support our government. THE US TAXPAYER

Once again she took the "5th". I would say, in my opinion, she knows the trail leads way up the ladder.

This is so sick. IN THE LAND OF THE FREE... We have allowed the gestapo and the ss to move in and control the most powerful agency in our country.

Even more interesting is having a democratic representative from M.D. screaming about how un American this hearing was. CUMMINGS. He is not white, so this must be a racial statement.

PERFECT EXAMPLE of a progressive that WANTS TO CONTROL you, or KILL YOU!



Boys... Get ready or give up. I think war is about to be declared.