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#229541 by jw123
Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:28 pm
Just a follow up, last thursday I had a bad night.

Friday jammed with another group, drums, bass, 3 guitars, keys and this chick singer and everything we did was like butter. Ussually when you get 3 guitarist in a room its a cluster f**k, but in this situation it worked. Bill kinda held down the big open chords, I went for inversions around the middle of the neck on my LP and Billy was playing a strat and filling the gaps. Just had this massive wall of sound, and everyone was respective when it came to playing solos. I just wish I had a recorder for that one.

Sat Ive been playing with this garage band, a guy I went to HS with, who over time has become a pretty good guitarist. We play classic rock, southern rock and I guess you would call it outlaw country. The bassist got a new 5 string bass and asked me to eq his setup, which I did and in my mind it sounded a lot better. Then my buddy from HS asked me to set his amp up and the pa, so I was able to get rid of all the little obnoxious feedback issues, and we sounded a lot better, this group I have a lot of fun cause Im basically the lead singer on top of everything.

Last night monday we had our open mic, which was really cool. With the weather man of our regular people didnt show up, so being the house guitarist I get a lot more playing time than usual. So at one point the bassist got into this fusion type vamp and we just went off for about 10 minutes. The guy that runs the open mic, said afterward, man Ive never heard you play like that before, you were wailing, and hes a guy that sings in one of the best local rock bands in my area. I thought I was slightly off, but everyone there was patting us all on the back afterwards, I kinda went into my Jeff Beck mode, I was playing my Ibanez with the locking trem so I was pulling notes in and out of key so to speak.

Kinda weird last thursday I was all down on myself and today or last night I felt great.

Music is a roller coaster

#229623 by Starfish Scott
Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:09 pm
Rehearse in an empty area.
We use an abandoned factory area that is rented by blah blah blah.

The point is that I like to rehearse/practice/? with eyes closed.

When you start "sucking the rock", just close your eyes, re-center yourself and pretend you are in your happy place. (i.e. the factory)

If you really are going downhill, clamp those eyes down and do it from memory and play it as you've done it 100x before.

At the end, open your eyes.
Chances are, at that point crisis is over.

If not, just clamp down, slow down and pretend you are doing the whole set in your rehearsal area in the dark. Works for me.

Don't forget your dark glasses for the stage, just don't fall off the stage.

#229654 by Paleopete
Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:28 pm
Just thought of this. When I hit a few sour notes, I like to get back on track then try to do the exact same thing again, and make it sound like it was intentional. Works quite often...not even the band knows I screwed up.. :D

#229661 by Starfish Scott
Sat Feb 08, 2014 12:28 am
Paleopete wrote:Just thought of this. When I hit a few sour notes, I like to get back on track then try to do the exact same thing again, and make it sound like it was intentional. Works quite often...not even the band knows I screwed up.. :D


lol Yeah ok, like a reverse auto-tune moment..

Sounds like $ to me.

#229676 by MikeTalbot
Sat Feb 08, 2014 3:31 am
Pete

So true. I sat in with a band one night in Atlanta on bass - at the end of the tune I realized I was playing in G and they were playing in C. Somehow it worked and everything worked out.

Hitting wrong notes starts to have a value when you are in song writing mode - if you follow them out a little bit sometimes you find something you might not otherwise have thought of.

Talbot

#229699 by Starfish Scott
Sat Feb 08, 2014 6:52 pm
All part of the magic of 1-4-5. (shake, add booze and drink)

G was your 1, so C is the 4, stay true to your mistake and I bet it even sounded better in some spots, albeit different than expected.

#229770 by Planetguy
Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:09 pm
Paleopete wrote:Just thought of this. When I hit a few sour notes, I like to get back on track then try to do the exact same thing again, and make it sound like it was intentional. Works quite often...not even the band knows I screwed up.. :D


yep, that's an old one.

hopefully no one here goes the route of cracking wise after a mistake with "hey, i'm playing jazz!". :roll:

i've heard lot's of knuckleheads make that "joke" after screwing the pooch. the funny thing is not one 'em would ever be able to hang on a simple II/V/I in a minor key if their life depended on it!

#229774 by Starfish Scott
Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:28 pm
Planetguy wrote: The funny thing is not one of 'em would ever be able to hang on a simple II/V/I in a minor key if their life depended on it!


I love it when I hear music talk.

AS for the II/V/I in A minor, gimme 5 minutes. LOL (I like to shake it a little before I have to pour it out or burp it up.)

When you give people the "keys to the kingdom" like the above routing, it shouldn't be difficult unless they just don't play that much or panicked.

That my little test for people that think they are all that and an ice cream cone. Give them a similar routing and let them play in the structure.

Sometimes you find the best musicians that way.
Other times..well....(cue the gong) lol

#229780 by Planetguy
Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:34 pm
there ya go, scott....throw that II/V/I at 'em in Am and see which 5th they use for the II chord (or 9th on the V chord)!

dead giveaway everytime!

#229829 by Starfish Scott
Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:59 pm
YIKES...

OOh you started some sh*t over here..they are all arguing like mad.
(I love it)(Give us more, teach us more, give us more madness..lol)

I am probably way off but the way I think about it is about the stacking thirds thing, right?

i.e. II = B, so it would be B-D-F or Bdim chord.

I am sorry, but I think better when I am playing it.
(I can almost hear it better than I can play it)

So I think you are talking about "F"? (gulp)

(My name is mud..)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=953PkxFNiko

You got ME panicked now.. lol
(Where's my damn guitar?)
Last edited by Starfish Scott on Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

#229833 by DainNobody
Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:59 pm
I would approach this as A minor scale as exactly the same as the C major scale since it is the relative minor of C maj. with a different starting point.. instead of your basic whole tone, whole tone, semi-tone, whole tone, whole tone, whole tone, semi-tone
Am would be whole tone semi-tone, whole tone, whole tone, semi-tone, whole tone, whole tone..
your II would be B your V would be E and your I would be A

#229835 by Starfish Scott
Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:15 pm
Ooh Dane, it's not as easy as going to the I and counting up 5 steps, unless he's a trickster. lol

That was the argument earlier, Am = the I and up 5 steps would be E.
But I don't think that's what he's talking about, seems too easy.

I am short circuiting, the only thing I can think of is that the key of Am is the relative minor of C major.

(ugghh, open mouth, insert guitar) lol

#229837 by Planetguy
Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:26 pm
Starfish Scott wrote:YIKES...

OOh you started some sh*t over here..they are all arguing like mad.
(I love it)(Give us more, teach us more, give us more madness..lol)

I am probably way off but the way I think about it is about the stacking thirds thing, right?

i.e. II = B, so it would be B-D-F or Bdim chord, right?

I am sorry, but I think better when I am playing it.
(I can almost hear it better than I can play it)

So I think you are talking about "F"? (gulp)

(My name is mud..)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=953PkxFNiko

You got ME panicked now.. lol
(Where's my damn guitar?)


ok young man.....go to the head of the class!

F is indeed correct. but, you do lose a cpl of points since it's not a Bdim but actually a B half diminished AKA Bmb5.

a full on Bdim would have four minor 3rd intervals "stacked" as you said.
Bdim is spelled B D F G# .....and that G# (the Maj 7 of our Am tonality) MIGHT be a color you want for a little extra "bite" and tension.

just as likely and common.....the G natural note (mi 7th of our Am key and the 6th of our II) would be the way to go (not in our II "chord shape" but as included in the scale of the II chord.

so, what you spelled above... B D F ...while it is the first three of chord tones that make up a Bdim....they ALSO spell three notes of a Bmb5. add an A natural note and you have a four note Bmb5 (AKA Bm half dim). x2323x

and while you can run Bdim and it will work.....that chord and it's arpeggio has a lot of inherent tension.....i usually prefer to heap more tension on the next chord...the V chord so the resolution is more welcome when you get home to the Am.

the jazz standard "Black Orpheus" aka "Manha de Carnival" aka "Carnival" (we sometimes call it "Black Orifice") is a great example. it's in Am and has several II/V/I moves and lots of chord movements in 4ths. it also has a great and simple melody. if you're working on your jazz piano (or gtr) chops it'd be a great tune to take apart and study on several levels. it's a great tune to work on your voice leadings. also good for practicing tritone chord substitutions...and it's a fairly easy and straight ahead tune that gets called a lot.

bon chance!

#229839 by DainNobody
Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:40 pm
oh crap, I did not read the whole post.. I did not read on enough, with Mark asking this, "see which 5th they use for the II chord"

#229854 by Starfish Scott
Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:46 pm
I LOVE THIS sh*t !!!!! :D (nerve wracking, though!)

I just have a realllly hard time digesting it.
(Music, I find, is a lot like higher math and that gives me issues as well.)

Worse yet, it's a million times easier to play than to talk about it. (for me)
I admire Mark's grasp of what's going on. Sometimes I really wonder if I will ever get it on that level. Seems like my ear knows more than my brain ever will!

The one music professor in college used talk like this non-stop and I would just gaze at him, trying desperately to absorb all I can.

After a jam session, he would ask me to explain to him what he was trying to teach me, session by session. I would have some real difficulties doing it, but he liked the way I played and I used to giggle at the absolute musical powerhouse he was. I don't think there is any instrument that maniac could not play if he really wanted to.

It's a testament that I even got as little as I did, but for what my peanut brain cannot grasp, my ear works hard to compensate. (I just keep praying that it works.)

The yowlers I end up playing with either give or get something close to "Ok, it's a 1-5-1 in Gm. Watch me for the changes if you get lost, don't rush it, be calm and take your time".

When I hear that, I feel comfort because I am in the company of regular dummies. :) And I am just as big or bigger dummy than the rest, but we're all on the same page at least.

When you get a guy like Mark, you have to be careful because they can actually tell if you are doing what you are supposed to be doing, instead of just sounding like you know what's up. lol (Sounding good, on bass in particular, is easier than actually playing what's requested of me, unfortunately.)

Every now and again, I run into someone that plays in a complicated, but interesting fashion like this. It's a "mind melt with extra tuna and cheese", but it tastes great and leaves you wanting to rush back to your domicile to practice that which you just picked up for fear of losing it.

You also need to bring your other instruments to these events as well, because doing it on your main instrument is great, but playing a few different things and doing it right on all of them insures comprehension.

I am starting to get into this bad habit of taking a bass and my keyboard, along with my guitar just so I KNOW I got a good handle on what's being done. (I try to do all 3 in the same tune if I can swing it)

The problem now lies in the fact that people come up and say that they didn't know you played keys/bass/tuba/boomerang/kazoo/? and I reply calmly "I don't, you were hallucinating" and shuffle away quickly. LMAO

"Play it, don't say it".

Dane, you scared me. You've sounded like you know some theory, so you had me thinking...

And thanks Mark, I just won 10$ and got to kick Dave in the ass.
(totally worth it) (putting on a big ass boot, so I don't hurt my foot.) lol

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