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#229452 by ANGELSSHOTGUN
Sun Feb 02, 2014 11:46 am
Yes, and you never know what person applying for legal status under the law is being denied.

Sorry dane, you can not justify law breakers against people that are smart enough to understand the basic rules.

Your argument is very weak. Maybe you should go back and read saul alinsky's rules for engagement, if you want to undermine our constitution. I don't know if that is your intent, or just your impression.

#229462 by DainNobody
Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:23 pm
ok then, but I've done the math..

#229469 by Slacker G
Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:38 pm
Dane,

Glen is right. When illegals gain legal status the minimum wages will also go up for them. Then the prices of services will go up. Then your taxes will go up to support those illegals with and without jobs. You won't be able to eat as cheaply, your utilities will cost more, and more and more people will lose their jobs because employers will not be able to eat the wage increases.

Simple economics Dane. For everything you give someone for free, those working or purchasing a product or service will have to make up the difference. Money doesn't grow on trees. It drips from the sweat of the working man.

#229470 by DainNobody
Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:47 pm
citizens are bitchin about the high cost for obamacare, but they charge exorbitant application fees to apply for citizenship


credits: AP News Service



EDINBURG, Texas (AP) — Hilda Vasquez squirreled away the money for her U.S. citizenship application by selling batches of homemade tamales at South Texas offices. Carmen Zalazar picked up extra babysitting jobs at night after caring for kids all day in Houston.

The women scrimped and saved for months to pay for the $680 application, but for other applicants in the future, it might not be enough.

As President Barack Obama renews his quest for immigration reform, some proposals would impose fines of $2,000 on top of application fees, making the financial hurdles much taller for people who are here illegally.

"You have more rights when you are a citizen, like to vote," said Zalazar, a legal resident. As soon as she started a citizenship class, "I started to save because I knew otherwise it won't be possible."

The struggle is familiar to millions of immigrants. A 2012 survey by the Pew Hispanic Center showed that only 46 percent of Hispanic immigrants eligible to become citizens had done so. The top two reasons were lack of English skills and lack of money to pay for the application.

#229563 by ANGELSSHOTGUN
Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:44 pm
This is the second time you posted this crap.

Dang it no. . . And stop asking.

The sad thing is that you have no problem with putting legal people that are waiting, not breaking the law , and saving or bringing their cash here.

What a bleeding heart story. Every week MY government dips their hands into my pockets for much more than $650. :evil:

#229564 by MikeTalbot
Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:10 am
We whine about the environment, and going green.
Yet we want to increase the low end citizenry who to everyone's apparent surprise consume more resources, more water and more oil.

We whine about overpopulation - to the point of exterminating 55 million American children
Yet somehow increasing the population with unskilled foreigners, many of whom are criminals. Of course, how can we know eh? According to the Border Patrol the proportion of OTMs (Other than Mexican) has been increasing in leaps and bound. I hope there is no one out there that is angry with us. Of course, why would anybody be angry at us eh?

We whine about lack of jobs
Yet we increase the labor pool, locking low end workers out and denying the teenagers valuable work experience. And incidentally perpetuating the underclass.

We whine about how hard illegal immigrants have it
While we hose legal immigrants - I speak from experience with very high end friends and employees from overseas being jerked around constantly by govt pigs.

We whine about welfare
Yet expand it constantly, having created an underclass that live nearby but have nothing more in common with us than the man on the moon and according to FBI stats do most of the crime. Now the govt swine are extending social benefits at our expense to illegals.

These are simple facts. That these facts are ignored tells me the world has gone completely insane.

Perhaps the conservatives are right about America being an 'exceptional' nation. We are at least, exceptionally stupid.

The crunch will soon be upon us - anybody with a very elementary understanding of economics or even simple math can tell that. The working class is being destroyed - the underclass increased. Soon there will not be enough workers to finance the moochers and then Katy Bar the Door. Gee -could that anything to do with the militarization of the police?

Or perhaps the rich will chip in and help out? Ya think?

Note that everyone, Dem and Repub - who makes it into congress leaves, if they ever leave, with millions. But yeah, they care deeply about the poor.

I hope God has mercy on us - because history is certainly not going to.

Talbot

#229566 by DainNobody
Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:52 am
GLENNY J wrote:This is the second time you posted this crap.

Dang it no. . . And stop asking.

The sad thing is that you have no problem with putting legal people that are waiting, not breaking the law , and saving or bringing their cash here.

What a bleeding heart story. Every week MY government dips their hands into my pockets for much more than $650. :evil:
the difference is like night and day, when you speak of $650.00 in your hands compared to $650.00 in their hands.. you claim to be religious and Christian so go learn about the parable of the Widow's Mite.. and come back here and see how the Widow's Mite has real relevance here..

#229572 by ANGELSSHOTGUN
Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:41 am
Very interesting dane. Once again you have put a spin on immigration reform and redirected it to a biblical challenge.
Very interesting that you have missed the interpretation of free will, under God, versus man made corruption, waste , under the name of government.

It should be noted that Jesus was aware of the wealthy sharing... It was noted that the widow was willing to share all. It should be especially noted that, the sharing was done out of FREE WILL.

Does that mean that what the widow did was correct, or was that a gentle reminder for all men to not worship money. I do not believe that God wants us to fail and not prosper. Your line of thought leads away from the faith of God's money to replacing that with IN GOVERNMENT WE TRUST. We are closer to that than many know.

If your true concerns are helping the poor, than why would you bring up a passage that made the poor poorer. Congress just passed a budget of 1.1 trillion dollars of taxpayer dollars. 1/3 of that goes to pay the INTEREST on the national debt. That's a lot of poor people we could help. If I had my free will not being infringed, I would always back helping the people in need.

However, in your views, you have redirected the whole issue of law breakers into something completely different.

#229581 by Slacker G
Thu Feb 06, 2014 3:59 pm
Glen,

You simply waste your words on Dane for he has neither understanding or reasoning. He simply posts scriptures, of which he hasn't any comprehension. If that were not so his opinions would be in alignment with scripture and not opposed to scriptural principle.

#229584 by DainNobody
Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:14 pm
The first man who, having fenced in a piece of land, said "This is mine," and found people naïve enough to believe him, that man was the true founder of civil society. From how many crimes, wars, and murders, from how many horrors and misfortunes might not any one have saved mankind, by pulling up the stakes, or filling up the ditch, and crying to his fellows: Beware of listening to this impostor; you are undone if you once forget that the fruits of the earth belong to us all, and the earth itself to nobody. ”

— Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Discourse on Inequality,

#229589 by Slacker G
Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:30 pm
That man obviously did not believe in a living God who apportions land to those whom he chooses give it to.

#229593 by ANGELSSHOTGUN
Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:16 pm
Dane Ellis Allen wrote:The first man who, having fenced in a piece of land, said "This is mine," and found people naïve enough to believe him, that man was the true founder of civil society. From how many crimes, wars, and murders, from how many horrors and misfortunes might not any one have saved mankind, by pulling up the stakes, or filling up the ditch, and crying to his fellows: Beware of listening to this impostor; you are undone if you once forget that the fruits of the earth belong to us all, and the earth itself to nobody. ”

— Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Discourse on Inequality,


I don't think you are qualified to enter into an open discourse about this irrelevant participant in history. However I do find it interesting that you keep bringing up history when ever it fits your political position. You have gone from Jesus to Rousseau in 2 posts.

:lol:

#229594 by DainNobody
Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:28 pm
Slacker G wrote:That man obviously did not believe in a living God who apportions land to those whom he chooses give it to.
did not know god played favorites.. why then, does man have free-will? guess I should just stay off god's shit-list..

#229596 by AelLayne
Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:40 am
Sorry Dane, I understand what you're trying to say, but I don't think you're getting it across right.

I think the best way to get something like this across is how they are attacking the legitimacy of Obama's birth certificate.

Using their research, they are claiming:
1) To become President (I.E. Head of the State; Head of Gov.; Commander in Chief) you must be born in the {USA} <----This is important to distinguish. Otherwise, Canadians, Mexicans, and South Americans would be eligible for the presidency as well.

2) Obama was not born in the USA.

3) Therefore, Obama cannot become President.

Where all the confusion arises is in what claims they make after this fact. Primarily: " it teaches that all authority is appointed by God and there is no authority that has not been appointed by God"

While this seems like an explanation that could logically be used, in answer of the reason for which Obama is in power, it violates the fundamental laws that necessitate a being (such as God's) existence.

Firstly, all of the verses that Slacker cited (realistically, all of the Bible) took place during the time in which Divine Right was the sole reason a sovereign had any power at all. During this time, the Free Will of the individual held no sway over who would be king/queen/etc.

However, you seem to agree that Free Will is something that we hold. Hence, since the advent of democracy (which instated the power of Free Will upon the ruling powers), it would be illogical for God to be responsible for whoever was placed in power, as that feat in itself would deprive us of our ultimate good (Free Will) and absolve us of any and all blame for ill-favored decisions we make.

Thus, even if you follow scripture, God's appointment of power would have ceased, the moment democracy governed the selection of our leaders.

This leads me back to Obama, by way of stating that the election of the president is the result of human free will. That being said (if you wish to stay with conspiracies), it does not imply that it was the voting populous that got to choose. Perhaps it was a smaller group that decided Obama was better, at this time, for their plans.

Regardless, this brings me to the difficult position of defending the illegal immigrant (along-side Dane). The claim, that the support of illegal immigrants comes off the back of hard-working taxpayers, might be true. That does not mean that these illegal immigrants are not hard-working themselves. It has been referenced that one woman worked hard and saved an almost ridiculous amount (to me), because you also had to think about her payment for food and the like, along the way.

I wouldn't be angry, as one of the legal citizens that work hard and have to help those less fortunate, that I had to give my excess. I would be angry that others, with much more excess, give less. I would also not blame those illegal immigrants that work and try to better their lives, by bettering the place they choose to live. Not only is doing that wrong (on a biblical proportion), I'd say that it's fundamentally wrong ethically, as well.

Locke says that everything in nature is given to us "by the hand of God". This means that everything in nature is neutral, and unowned by any individual living here. We achieve "ownership" once we labour over these things. For example, if I pick apples from a tree, I laboured over the apples. Thus, they are my property. If there was originally no tree and I planted and nurtured it, then the tree is my property. Furthermore, we ought not own so much property, that we leave too little for others to survive, or too poor quality for others to sustain themselves. We ought to take just what we need, in fairness.

In light of these things, complaints, toward illegal immigrants, seem almost ridiculous. The discontentment does not exist with them, they exist with those that are hoarding the resources everyone needs to basically survive.

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