United States

So I met this guy online. We we're thinking about collaborating.
He's into "avant garde" et cetera.

So we're talking and he sends me a link to his current work.

I listen to it and say "well the first track you sent me is a little off, but I listened to 02 and I liked that one more".

Then I get this email that is basically indignant.

"How is it off"? to paraphrase. I just look around in disbelief.

And I laugh a little on the inside, you guys are aware that not everything any artist does is gold, right?> I mean we all have some tracks that aren't as good as some others, right? (yikes)

I tell him that "develop a thick skin and don't be too interested in what other people say because for every person that likes what you do, there will be one that doesn't".

And furthermore if you let people get to you, you'll be in jail for homicide as it all starts to look like negative behavior if you aren't careful.

He says to me that "just by the fact that he is making records that is a testament to the quality of his work and the passion he puts into it". LOL I about choked on a cracker right there, no cheese, no peperoni.

I won't write the name of the band as I don't really want to taunt the guy but I have to scratch my head and wonder what's going on in his mind.

Avant guard? And it's all 100% great material, eh? lol
(I don't think everything I ever touched was 100%, I just do the best I can with what I am doing at the time and hope for the best.)

I bet when he melts down, it's bad news. Worse yet, 2 guitarists, 3 guitarists in some of his videos. OUCH..

(brrr) It's getting snowy outside, as in "deep and steep".

Do you guys think of your music in this regard? I find the idea foreign that every song is a "born winner". Some are naturally better than others to me, but not all are GREAT for sure. (shrugs)

In any case, onto the follies. Check this out and be kind, I feel bad for him already.

http://youtu.be/Vwp6HOVfI5c

I am just shocked that he's so adamant about these works of his.
I gather others have been kicking him in the junk and that's why he's touchy.

(Here's your mansion, where did you say you wanted your pool? Pttuhuh, there you go.. lol)

EDIT: Yeah so he just wrote me back and said he's changed his mind.
It's basically a relief to me. I took that as atonal, non-melodic and let's not even talk about timing.

If that's my Xmas present, thank you Santa. (relieved) That music gave me indigestion..even "new country" is looking good after that.

Only thing worse would be trying to play it.. ecchhhhhh.

And here I thought naively that everyone knew what melodic means.
Maybe the trouble is that my definition of melodic isn't the same as originally conceived.

Uhhh ... fix the PA system first .... seemed to be the same in all the videos I looked at. Guess that's their style. Reminds me of my first high school band's PA - Bogen PA head and we had two 'refurbished' Fender guitar cabinets (they had been in a fire, all the tolex burnt off) with cheap 12" (one cabinet) and 15" (otehr cabinet) speakers from Lafayette Electronics - but the sound was better from those than on the videos I just tried!

Sounds like they should of spent a lil more time tuning up before they started... Reminds me of some of the darker sides of grunge. I listened to it 3 times...
I don't think its that bad. Definitely not "main st" refined. I don't think I'd call it avant-garde... but I get it's not for you.

I had a hard time finding something I liked in their cluster of junk, that much is true.

But when the guy got all indignant about that tripe, I knew something was all fecked up.

You have to be realistic about your music, not all of it is grand regardless of what anyone thinks.

And that stuff.. Well let's just say I've heard a bit of this and that over the years, but nothing like that. You can't even slander "Punk" by attempting to attach that label. (It's not fair to Punk music)

The fact that the guy got all upset was a "tell" and I am guessing that "Avant Garde" is a catch all phrase for his disjointed, unorganized, poorly written crap.

If I played like that, I'd burn every instrument I own in order to atone for my sins against music in general.

Just remember it's a big wide world out there and it takes all types, even them. LOL (retch)(dry heave)(retch)

I think that's the worst I've heard in some time, honestly.

Hey if your want your music to be great, Scotty start with a 1-5 progression, it's been sounding good forever, embellish with some passing tones or neighboring tones, and you've got most of the music ever made. You can reduce most compositions down to their basic harmonic context, and 1-5 sure shows up regularly, this is called harmonic tendancy, our ears are programmed to hear the 1-5, that's why it works.

Scott

I sometimes envy those big ego guys. Sometimes...but not often.

But sometimes you are just plain right and can't backup. I had to take a firm hand with a drummer recently who purported to explain to me how meter works. I told him I could already count to four but damn it - I needed him to count to five!! I wonder what the poor guy would do if he had to play jazz?

It's all good though.

Last night around 2Am my creativity gland started pumping juice and I had the most satisfying practice session in months. Started on bass and ended up on the Firebird. That guitar is changing the way I play in many positive ways.

But ego? If I could do that every time perhaps I'd go with the ego. Ain't it funny how you can play the same song, get the notes and rhythm perfect each time, and one time it sounds like a hack playing and the next time you're in Madison Square Garden (at least in your head).

Talbot

Do you guys think of your music in this regard? I find the idea foreign that every song is a "born winner". Some are naturally better than others to me, but not all are GREAT for sure. (shrugs)

Not at all... there are a few songs that I've written that I think come close to hitting the mark but no real bulls-eye. Though it does kind of suck if you put something together and no one gets it. But it happens so I've learned to just move along to the next. An ear test is all it takes and there's no point in kidding yourself you just have to keep working at it.
I have my personal favorite songs that others may not think much of, but if you're trying to reach an audience of sorts in the beginning and in the end they decide what's good. imo

I have a couple I consider 'winners' because when play them with bands the guys pick up on them quick , get the changes and seem to like them.

OK. But I have some tunes I like a lot more that rock just as hard but are a a bit more complicated so I wonder sometimes if it is just laziness - folks don't want to take the time to learn it right.

I don't know what you think about Metallica but I read a telling quote from one of them, "...this was a simple piece, only fourteen or so changes." There are many these days who would not call that simple.

As FBob put it in another thread, "The bass player [and the rest] must know the songs backwards and forwards." Then it doesn't matter how many changes you have in your song - you learn 'em. When the band plays the totality of changes that indicate that you are playing a song - that often means you have that elusive "winner."

Many of those 'changes' are actually just 'transitions' worked out to specific parts. (as they should be)

Back on topic - I love all my songs, my children, But some of them need a good beating and some I haven't paid enough attention to.

Talbot

Yeah but your hackles don't go up when someone doesn't like one of them.

(At least one of your children is going to be an ugly looking read-headed stepchild that looks like the mailman.. lol "no big thang"..)

That's terrible . . . and I'm being kind.

Turn off the recorder and the camera till they have some basic music skills.
Or sell the gear and buy beer.

The worst is that these clowns have played quite a few places and even have a record deal !!??!??!?!!!

I feel like skydiving with no parachute.

Every time I get close to the point where I can actually do something worthwhile, I get thrown a monkey wrench that lands squarely in the gears.

Meanwhile you get these ass-hats...and I don't mind saying I don't they have ANY redeeming qualities, except maybe that they were polite.

I'm with you George, they were beyond awful.
I'm still shocked that Jahva made it through 3x and thought they weren't bad. Obviously I missed the memo on that bunch, but that's ok...I don't wanna know.

All I heard was a real bad distorted recording, so it’s pretty difficult to form an opinion. I don’t think you can hear what the “real” sound would be like. When you said the track is “a little off”, if you meant the distortion, I think he might not have understood that. I think he took it as a statement (and not an opinion) about the music or song in general, in “undistorted” form. If you were actually hearing the music without the distortion and made that comment, it might be understandable that he would ask what you meant, to get more specifics on why you did not like it. It may just be a complete misunderstanding by him about what you meant.

You know I try to be diplomatic with other's materials but I mean I didn't hear anything I liked except the other track and even that was "not so much".

I don't like classical punk music, unless it has something redeeming about it.
(anything from repo man or suburbia or similar.. I do like some of it)

Having said that, his "Avant Garde" materials were awful.

I've stated before and I'll say it again. "Do not load anything but your best materials on You Tube because the world will hear it and see it". And if you look like mud and you sound like mud, you just may be mud.

Now I have heard like 10 or so of their other recordings, some of them live.
And either they are making a career of sounding atonal and out of tune or they just don't have even the most basic of a clue.

The fellow I talked to seemed very polite (T.) and I love that about an artist, but I fail to see why the material is as it is. It denigrates them and shows me that they either have no attention to detail or they just don't care to be slightly more musical in nature.

Either way, I could never exist in such a scenario. Even at the smallest, slightest touch, I am so much more anal retentive about what I am doing.

If we were to collaborate, I'd be shitting a golden brick. He'd be slopping around and I'd want something infinitely more refined.

"We all want something we like, but one man's treasure is another man's trash". I.e. I think it's trash and he thinks it's treasure and was very touchy about it.

I have music that people whack me about all the time. Not everyone likes everything, but you have to put your all into a product or run the distinct risk of having something mediocre rear it's ugly head.

I don't do "mediocre". I'd rather just delete a whole tune then give up something not my best work and I know much better than to plaster something I don't like on the internet.

We all do this one time and then hopefully, you learn from your mistakes.

These guys have a slew of erm? "material" up and it's all very similar.

IDK maybe that's part of the genre, who can tell>? Surely not I.

This reminds me of an acquaintances band, "Gunther's God".
I thought they were pretty good, but they posted substandard material on You Tube and they were so much better than all that.

I implore all you would be musicians, please don't do it. Put your best foot or recording forward. You owe it to yourself to do the very best you can and even Punk music can be tastefully done.

Don't settle for the crap straight from sewer pipe, that stuff is too raw and unrefined. Just give us the refined, finished product because once someone tastes that BAD water and gets sick, they always remember it for what it is.

All I heard was a real bad distorted recording, so it’s pretty difficult to form an opinion. I don’t think you can hear what the “real” sound would be like. When you said the track is “a little off”, if you meant the distortion, I think he might not have understood that. I think he took it as a statement (and not an opinion) about the music or song in general, in “undistorted” form. If you were actually hearing the music without the distortion and made that comment, it might be understandable that he would ask what you meant, to get more specifics on why you did not like it. It may just be a complete misunderstanding by him about what you meant.

Perhaps your correct.

If this were the case . . . would you . . . any of us . . . leave it up ?

All I heard was a real bad distorted recording, so it’s pretty difficult to form an opinion. I don’t think you can hear what the “real” sound would be like. When you said the track is “a little off”, if you meant the distortion, I think he might not have understood that. I think he took it as a statement (and not an opinion) about the music or song in general, in “undistorted” form. If you were actually hearing the music without the distortion and made that comment, it might be understandable that he would ask what you meant, to get more specifics on why you did not like it. It may just be a complete misunderstanding by him about what you meant.

Perhaps your correct.

If this were the case . . . would you . . . any of us . . . leave it up ?

Good point. No, I would not want people forming an opinion from a badly distorted recording, for sure.