General Music Chat

well, we're playing rotation at all the local places worth playing, and have maxxed out on the base pay. The only way we can do better is to go regional and do "A" clubs. But those clubs will expect black eyed peas, beyonce, katy perry, etc.. which is not our desire or design.

So were doing as well as possible.. maybe haley does make more money. Maybe he plays bigger clubs.. and maybe that's his market.. but it's not ours. There's 3,346,134,123 classic rock bands in my area, and the few that can actually find gigs, are in mostly places we don't and won't play.. well, they play for the door, which in this area is not a good thing considering average capacity will earn each member between $25-$40.

Yeah, no thanks.

Kramer the core audience i play for are parents and grandparents, so Im in the dinosaur class! LOL!

You do make a point thou, Memphis does have some areas around colleges and the music acceptable in those places is totally different than where I normally play, in essence you are giving the audience what they want.

my money's on HALEY too, because Texas has a booming economy, more people watch live music there.. it's simply economics and more oil money there..

Since the dissolution of Instant Karma (actually before that), I've been looking at the possibility of joining some local cover band again - you know the usual 'classic rock' fare. Always openings in bands around here, but none of them are making any real money gigging.
Went to see a band this past Friday night, the bass player had talked it up on Facebook (a New Hampshire musicians group there). 4-piece, bass, drums, guitar and singer. I had listened to their stuff on reverbnation, originals were mehh, covers on video the same. First thing I noticed live was the drummer had timing issues, and soon realized every song was the same dynamically. I could have added some tasteful guitar leads and/or keyboards to at least half of the songs I heard in the hour there (the rest I had never played but could learn in 1 rehearsal).

But then I remembered a keyboardist at last Thursday's open mic talking about having to play 'Mustang Sally' again would kill him - then we heard 2 different acts do it at the OM! He's right - if I had to play those same old songs the same old way again and again to mostly-empty bars, it would suck the life right out of me!
So the decision - nope, not going to join that type of classic rock thing again, will keep looking for a mostly-acoustic act/partner and just do solo stuff and recording in my studio until I do.

Well, If you are focused on building a portfolio of original work, then you definitely want to surround yourself with like minded artists... I'm not a cover artist, but I have begun to see the real advantages to engaging in it... Keeps me on my toes, skills wise... I'm currently working with some guys who want me to work in some originals...and in exchange, they want me to works some covers (on a blues project) . I'm like ...hell yes i;ll do it. The collaboration sort of happened organically...I didn't set out for it...but folks know folks who asked some folks and and got round to asking me... The universe conspired in my favor. Life is good.

The Beatles, The Stones, Hendrix, SRV, Dylan, Van Halen, all made their mark playing covers in the beginning. That is how they honed their craft. The Rolling Stones first US album tour in 1964, most were cover songs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rollin ... 28album%29

My cover band makes $600 divided by 4 = $150 per man

20 years ago we did play some of the college circuit gigs in my area. Back then we got a flat $500, we did two frat partys for $1000 during those years, the college audience is constantly changing, was my take on it. When we played for them we played a lot of grunge, cause at the time it was current, plus dance oriented stuff ala Prince, but the old standards did work there also, I remember playing Wholly Bully at many of those gigs.

I have been talking to a group that is looking for a guitarist, they are going to market to weddings, reunions, private partys, that sort of thing, in talking to them, thier goal is $1000 a night divided by 5 = $200 per man, not much better than what Im getting currently with my band.

Memphis if I recall looking over bars and such a few years ago had something like 250 places that had live music at one point or another during the week. So there is a lot going on, but the consensus Ive gotten talking to people lately is that the going rate is $3-400 per night. And there are plenty willing to do it for less than that.

To me if you can come away from a cover gig in my area after expenses with a solid $75 you are doing good.

And if someone on here has found a way to make more, please let me know, I share what I know and have been able to do. No BS

You might have noticed I said 'mostly acoustic'. Nothing wrong with electric, or better yet songs that have both in them.
I also never said anything about NOT doing covers. I just don't want to be doing those same old songs that were played to death 20 years ago and that smae set list that I was doing back then, too. Yeah, if someone in the audience requests a song, you try to accomodate them. When was the last time you had someone request Mustang Sally or Brown Eyed Girl?

The band last Friday did 2 originals (very lackluster), turns out they were actually recorded by the band with a different lineup - the guitarist is the only member from that time.
Songs they did that I can remember: Born To Be Wild, Roadhouse Blues, Rebel Rebel, Breakdown ... what else .... I can't even remember, it was so same old ...
The situation for 'classic rock' bands around here is similar to what Kramer says - bands, unless they can really draw a big crowd - and no 'classic rock' band draws a big crowd here - get the door. Even bands that are doing new music/alternative covers or originals are not getting more. The ones with some luck and fans might be getting paid (not door) $300-$400 a night, but there aren't many bands or venues in that category.
On the other hand, solo (mostly acoustic) players and duos are getting $150 - $200 (and more at some higher end venues) a night at many more places around here. Many times they are providing background music -for the 8pm dinner folks - for an hour or so, before doing 2 sets of louder music.

BTW, at that last Open Mic, I was the only who did an original song (at least up until 10pm when I left).

I am fine playing Sweet Home, Mustang Sally,any of the songs listed 1000 times more as long as the crowd wants to hear them. Evertime I get into a new band there are at least 30 to 40 NEW songs I have to learn that I don't know. My job is to please the crowd NOT MYSELF. If you are a pro it IS NOT about you. I am suspecting thats why some folks on this forum are having trouble getting PAYING gigs. You can't force the average bar partier to listen to songs YOU LIKE. THEY are the party and if they don't like your music they won't come to your shows its as simple as that (my opinion)!

Your entire response is based on the idea that the average bar-goer prefers to hear the same dumb songs they've been hearing for 30+ years.

Well first off, those same people don't go to bars. Most have aged out and even the next two generations after them aged out too. 10 years ago, there was a popular surge for classic rock only because high school and college kids got turned onto it via video games like rockband and guitar hero. They have also now aged out of the bar scene..

So, do you really think your audience is so stupid and blind that they would rather hear brown eyed girl, mustang sally, and SWA?!?

I realize that there ARE places where that is expected.. certainly down in dufus, TX. But any bar near a college, near civilized society? Nope. And you see, here's the difference with my band- we play newer stuff, we play stuff you've heard, and we even play a few, less-beaten-to-death staples from the late 80's like every rose or summer of 69.. but even those are RARE plays now. 90's grunge is the new classic rock, and a lot of that stuff even now is beat.

No matter where we play, we ALWAYS get the same feedback from the bar-goers.. usually very excited and positive about how we play stuff no other bands around here play, and how refreshing it is! We play the black keys. We play Fun's "we are young", we play lumineers "Ho Hey", and people go freeking nuts for it.

And that's my point- we give the audience enough common respect to treat them like they know good modern hits, and don't dumb it down to the point where we're telling them they are nothing but a bunch of idiots who wouldn't understand anything past what their grandparents listened to.

They don't

My how things have changed since I quit going into bars.

I am fine playing Sweet Home, Mustang Sally,any of the songs listed 1000 times more as long as the crowd wants to hear them. Evertime I get into a new band there are at least 30 to 40 NEW songs I have to learn that I don't know. My job is to please the crowd NOT MYSELF. If you are a pro it IS NOT about you. I am suspecting thats why some folks on this forum are having trouble getting PAYING gigs. You can't force the average bar partier to listen to songs YOU LIKE. THEY are the party and if they don't like your music they won't come to your shows its as simple as that (my opinion)!

Your entire response is based on the idea that the average bar-goer prefers to hear the same dumb songs they've been hearing for 30+ years.

Well first off, those same people don't go to bars. Most have aged out and even the next two generations after them aged out too. 10 years ago, there was a popular surge for classic rock only because high school and college kids got turned onto it via video games like rockband and guitar hero. They have also now aged out of the bar scene..

So, do you really think your audience is so stupid and blind that they would rather hear brown eyed girl, mustang sally, and SWA?!?

I realize that there ARE places where that is expected.. certainly down in dufus, TX. But any bar near a college, near civilized society? Nope. And you see, here's the difference with my band- we play newer stuff, we play stuff you've heard, and we even play a few, less-beaten-to-death staples from the late 80's like every rose or summer of 69.. but even those are RARE plays now. 90's grunge is the new classic rock, and a lot of that stuff even now is beat.

No matter where we play, we ALWAYS get the same feedback from the bar-goers.. usually very excited and positive about how we play stuff no other bands around here play, and how refreshing it is! We play the black keys. We play Fun's "we are young", we play lumineers "Ho Hey", and people go freeking nuts for it.

And that's my point- we give the audience enough common respect to treat them like they know good modern hits, and don't dumb it down to the point where we're telling them they are nothing but a bunch of idiots who wouldn't understand anything past what their grandparents listened to.

Kramer I didn't mean that as an insult to your band! I have heard you play and your a badass on that guitar brother! Apparently the music scene is a lot different where you are at. I disagree with just about everything you wrote here. I would NEVER suggest the people I play to are stupid! They just like the music and NO THEY HAVEN'T "aged out" the gig we did last Sat. was to a younger crowd and they LOVED it. We do some newer music but we do VARIETY I wouldn't play in a band here that doesn't play variety period. That is the style of music (all styles) that makes the money down here in "dufus texas" Mullet man doesn't take his guitar out the house for less than $150.00 and I get at least that at EVERY GIG! We were just offered a big festival gig on the 4th thats gonna pay well. I am not and don't want to play Crazy B!tch and songs like that with bad language all throughout them. Yes I cus and swear but thats not the style of music or image I want to portray. music is about balance brother. The music I play is for ALL AGES thats where ther money is in coverbands. I play clubs and VERY FEW BARS! I guess its different here because I happen to be in the state thats BOOMING more than any other state in the country. You want to make money playing music? Come to Dallas, Austin or Houston you'll make money here IF you play the right music!

I hesitate because I'm not trying to brag (ok, maybe I'm lying) but playing solo is the only way to go. I can hire a band when I need them (which is about twice a year) or not. This affords me the possibility of taking risk that wouldn't happen if I had to support a band and their families. I can cut expenses to almost zero if I have to survive for a week in a foreign land. Try that with a band or even a duo.

Not everyone can do a solo thing...but if you can, you absolutely should start right now.

And writing original music (that people will buy) is the only way to make a decent living in the music biz today. You spend a couple of years in poverty to create a network of venues but then you will be set for as long as you are producing new music and can perform on tour.

Not everyone can write songs that people will buy...but if you can, you absolutely should start right now.

I made $2,710 on one day of playing this week and it feels like I'm on vacation because I asked my agent not to book anything midweek while I'm in Hollywood to work on my new project. I usually do 4 to 6 gigs per week.

Its not too late to be the person you want to be. I didn't start this leg of my journey until I was 41. It has been 12 years since leaving my successful locksmithing businesses to go back to being full-time musician...and it only gets more exciting every day.

Not everyone can leave the ratrace to try it...but if you can, you absolutely should start right now.

But I would be happy to sit at home and write/record original music forever. Almost can't wait to retire and do that already.

One more thing. The crowds here HAVE NOT AGED OUT because the economy is booming and the baby boomer generation has raised their kids people go out and party in clubs and they like to hear GOOD music. So yeah I may have painted a target on my back by being PROUD of where I am from TEXAS DAYUM I LOVE THIS STATE! Having said that you don't hear me crying because I can't make money in my trade or my music. ALL YOU TEXAS HATERS THINK ABOUT THAT REAL HARD!

I hesitate because I'm not trying to brag (ok, maybe I'm lying) but playing solo is the only way to go. I can hire a band when I need them (which is about twice a year) or not. This affords me the possibility of taking risk that wouldn't happen if I had to support a band and their families. I can cut expenses to almost zero if I have to survive for a week in a foreign land. Try that with a band or even a duo.

Not everyone can do a solo thing...but if you can, you absolutely should start right now.

And writing original music (that people will buy) is the only way to make a decent living in the music biz today. You spend a couple of years in poverty to create a network of venues but then you will be set for as long as you are producing new music and can perform on tour.

Not everyone can write songs that people will buy...but if you can, you absolutely should start right now.

I made $2,710 on one day of playing this week and it feels like I'm on vacation because I asked my agent not to book anything midweek while I'm in Hollywood to work on my new project. I usually do 4 to 6 gigs per week.

Its not too late to be the person you want to be. I didn't start this leg of my journey until I was 41. It has been 12 years since leaving my successful locksmithing businesses to go back to being full-time musician...and it only gets more exciting every day.

Not everyone can leave the ratrace to try it...but if you can, you absolutely should start right now.

But I would be happy to sit at home and write/record original music forever. Almost can't wait to retire and do that already.

Bravo!

One more thing. The crowds here HAVE NOT AGED OUT because the economy is booming and the baby boomer generation has raised their kids people go out and party in clubs and they like to hear GOOD music. So yeah I may have painted a target on my back by being PROUD of where I am from TEXAS DAYUM I LOVE THIS STATE! Having said that you don't hear me crying because I can't make money in my trade or my music. ALL YOU TEXAS HATERS THINK ABOUT THAT REAL HARD!

I think people generally hate others who are proud of where their mother happened to sh!t them out.

It's like nationalism.

My parents happened to f*ck here in America, so what?
Doesn't make me proud of being an American.
And I get annoyed at others who are.

Any of us could have been born in Buttfuck Egypt and it wouldn't make us better or worse as people.

edit

No Mike . . . people do not "generally hate".

Only the one's like you whom are so consumed with it they can no longer function normally in society.

Your a sick man.

Seek help.