General Music Chat

Kramer, I don't believe that wealthy oilmen get to keep "all the profit" that is where you and I differ in opinion. I believe a corp. like Royal Dutch Shell or Exxon have a duty to their shareholders and that is their main motivation but they do generate LOTS of jobs, tax revenue's and opportunities for people to that end! IMO there is nothing wrong with that. Companies should be allowed to prosper that is REALLY the motivation. I agree there should be regulation on corp. that are providing products so dangerously obtained but then again there should be BALANCE! I believe that a 2 or 3 party system is necessary for balance. There should be at least 2 points of view debating over issue's regarding congressional oversite. The problem IMO is on one side you have corp. trying to influence that oversite and on the other the liberal media. IMO right now the balance is tipped to the liberal side with NO opposing opinions because the american public is so frustrated over past legislation.

Companies shouldn't be allowed to prosper on national resources at the expense of the people. These resources belong to all of us, not just a bunch of bigwigs and stockbrokers. Hate to say it, but Hugo Chavez had it right when he told big oil, "you pay the people for their resources, or GTFO". I applaud him for that.

Wow Kramer, with all due respect the more you talk the more you sound like a communist! Hugo Chaves had it right? BWA HA HA! Your kidding right! Dude I hate to break the news to you but those resources belong to whomever takes the risk, makes the investment to own the mineral rights, pay the government fees and pull it out of the ground! Really Kramer please understand I mean no disrepect to you personally but that is a phuked up way of looking at things. It amazes me how you can see things that way and be serious about it Wow! If the majority of folks in this country see things as you do there is most DEFINATELY NO HOPE!

Kramer, I don't believe that wealthy oilmen get to keep "all the profit" that is where you and I differ in opinion. I believe a corp. like Royal Dutch Shell or Exxon have a duty to their shareholders and that is their main motivation but they do generate LOTS of jobs, tax revenue's and opportunities for people to that end! IMO there is nothing wrong with that. Companies should be allowed to prosper that is REALLY the motivation. I agree there should be regulation on corp. that are providing products so dangerously obtained but then again there should be BALANCE! I believe that a 2 or 3 party system is necessary for balance. There should be at least 2 points of view debating over issue's regarding congressional oversite. The problem IMO is on one side you have corp. trying to influence that oversite and on the other the liberal media. IMO right now the balance is tipped to the liberal side with NO opposing opinions because the american public is so frustrated over past legislation.

Companies shouldn't be allowed to prosper on national resources at the expense of the people. These resources belong to all of us, not just a bunch of bigwigs and stockbrokers. Hate to say it, but Hugo Chavez had it right when he told big oil, "you pay the people for their resources, or GTFO". I applaud him for that.

Wow Kramer, with all due respect the more you talk the more you sound like a communist! Hugo Chaves had it right? BWA HA HA! Your kidding right! Dude I hate to break the news to you but those resources belong to whomever takes the risk, makes the investment to own the mineral rights, pay the government fees and pull it out of the ground! Really Kramer please understand I mean no disrepect to you personally but that is a phuked up way of looking at things. It amazes me how you can see things that way and be serious about it Wow! If the majority of folks in this country see things as you do there is most DEFINATELY NO HOPE!

Natural resources belong to nature.
Everyone owns nature.
When you take natural resources you take from everyone.
Probably where Karl Marx derived "property is theft" from.

Kramer, I don't believe that wealthy oilmen get to keep "all the profit" that is where you and I differ in opinion. I believe a corp. like Royal Dutch Shell or Exxon have a duty to their shareholders and that is their main motivation but they do generate LOTS of jobs, tax revenue's and opportunities for people to that end! IMO there is nothing wrong with that. Companies should be allowed to prosper that is REALLY the motivation. I agree there should be regulation on corp. that are providing products so dangerously obtained but then again there should be BALANCE! I believe that a 2 or 3 party system is necessary for balance. There should be at least 2 points of view debating over issue's regarding congressional oversite. The problem IMO is on one side you have corp. trying to influence that oversite and on the other the liberal media. IMO right now the balance is tipped to the liberal side with NO opposing opinions because the american public is so frustrated over past legislation.

Companies shouldn't be allowed to prosper on national resources at the expense of the people. These resources belong to all of us, not just a bunch of bigwigs and stockbrokers. Hate to say it, but Hugo Chavez had it right when he told big oil, "you pay the people for their resources, or GTFO". I applaud him for that.

Wow Kramer, with all due respect the more you talk the more you sound like a communist! Hugo Chaves had it right? BWA HA HA! Your kidding right! Dude I hate to break the news to you but those resources belong to whomever takes the risk, makes the investment to own the mineral rights, pay the government fees and pull it out of the ground! Really Kramer please understand I mean no disrepect to you personally but that is a phuked up way of looking at things. It amazes me how you can see things that way and be serious about it Wow! If the majority of folks in this country see things as you do there is most DEFINATELY NO HOPE!

Natural resources belong to nature.
Everyone owns nature.
When you take natural resources you take from everyone.
Probably where Karl Marx derived "property is theft" from.

Well, there you have it. Congratulations this way of thinking WILL be the end of Merica! I feel bad for my kids generation because they are going to be the ones affected by a weak U.S. military and finacially! That makes me want to step up my efforts to buy property in the country where when the U.S. is dead I still have some hope for my family!

You are not promoting a healthy society, what you describe is almost the exact description of anarchy, which ironically is very similar to unregulated capitalism. The elephant in the room is that with capitalism, the more unregulated it becomes, the more people are born into servitude by financial status alone, with little or no hope to pull themselves out of it.

It's clear that you can't see that, or willfully ignore it. Just consider this my two cents on the matter and try not to call me names akin to 'libtard' or suggest that my head is in the sand.

I haven't seen the video and can't watch it from work, but I will say that you should look up the wikipedia page on Marxism, and rather than slander it to hell, read the beginning parts about WHY karl marx was philosophizing on ways to make capitalism a viable system, and the explanations on why capitalism cannot work without extreme regulation.

I point that out, not in support of marxism (it's a flawed system), but because the viewpoints and conclusions marxist thought provoked in considering capitalist society. It's a good read, regardless of your beliefs or affiliations.

Jeff, you are not a bad person and while we have rattled swords at times, I've realized that you just see things from a specific point of view. I only ask that you consider other points of view. When you make points, some I've heard before and have already pondered, and others I ponder when I read them, or take a few days to do some fact-finding to make my own conclusions. I'm far from perfect in my logics, and by understanding that, I always attempt to accept other points of view and at least give them consideration. I have a really great idea for a new topic, so not to hijack this one, but you inspired me to ponder a different aspect.. more later.

THIS IS COMPLETE BULL SHIIT! Except for the part about about Jeff being a great person, and you being far from perfect in your logic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y43a6BsNQb4&feature=youtu.be

This is a 10 minute video. If you can please watch. Especially for MikeNobody!

I've already seen that video.

Then what is your idea of a good form of government? It seems to me that greed is a natural human emotion and because of that all humans are subject to it in some capacity. That being said ANY form of government is going to be BAD for the majority of its citizens! IMO at least the american way (the way that built this country) which we americans today seem to have forgotten WAS best! The Chinese and other emerging economies are capitilizing on it. Of course it is a cruel world regardless of any form of govrnment and unfortunately some folks are going to get left behind, forgotten, swept under the rug! IMO at least with a free market you have the opportunity to advance and do well. IMO the ones that get left behind in a free market society are the ones that don't want to take the iniative to get up off their BUTT and make things happen. Their are in this free market some that need help. The problem is the ones that want to set on there collective asses and have freedom handed to them on a silver platter HIDE behind the unfortunate that really do need help. Furthermore they use that CHICKENSHIT example to force the folks that ARE PRODUCING AND CONTRIBUTING to society to GIVE them theirs! It is obvious to the PRODUCTIVE, CONTRIBUTERS that the tipping point has been reached between them and the ones that want everything for nothing. Now we become an oligarchy.

Hear,Hear,, Give Haley a medal. He has more understanding of true American values than half our country.

Well, there you have it. Congratulations this way of thinking WILL be the end of Merica!

Well, I live in AMERICA.
This country 'Merica' you speak of is in your head.
If it wasn't, we'd be at war with it and kicked it's little ass.

http://youtu.be/XiN-MW-CP0A

Im a capitlist, Ive started and run business's since I was 23 years old.

One of them didnt go bankrupt, but if I had tryed to keep it running, it would have, so I had to make the decision of shutting it down, liquidating assetts, helping employees get new jobs. There wasnt any sort of bailout available for me.

Another business which I will share is a propane buisness. 2011 we lost money, mainly because of the weather, what did I do? My partner and I sat down last Jan and made a plan to cut spending, some huge cuts, for 2012 we rebounded.

Another business Im involved in is a cotton gin. Currently grain prices on the world market make more sense to area farmers to raise. Cotton production will be cut dramatically this year, how much? We dont really know yet, but we are preparing for it. We will weather the coming year, and try to be in business in 2013, we feel the market will change and swing ag back more cotton friendly.

I guess having gone thru the things I have, my view of government is tainted. Take the GM situation, instead of bailing it out, my thought was let the company be shrunk to a size that it could sustain itself, the same for wall street. Let the unprofitable business's fail.

Harsh I know, but Ive personally been thru the process a couple of times, and in the end things have worked out, Im not homeless, maybe i make less, but Ive been able to survive.

Our government seems to think there is an unlimited amount of money they can tap into when things go wrong. To me the true road to recovery in the world market today is streamlining, cutting cost, being more efficient. Not adding more taxes.

I guess Im rambling about my situation, which I know is way different from a lot of people on the forum, but I just wish that the government could be more accountable for spending my money. My personal pay check is smaller this year, so what do I do? I make adjustments and do the best I can.

Everything you deduced here about business is dead nuts on. The big Question: In the name of efficiency, do we need people at all?

Kramer, I don't believe that wealthy oilmen get to keep "all the profit" that is where you and I differ in opinion. I believe a corp. like Royal Dutch Shell or Exxon have a duty to their shareholders and that is their main motivation but they do generate LOTS of jobs, tax revenue's and opportunities for people to that end! IMO there is nothing wrong with that. Companies should be allowed to prosper that is REALLY the motivation. I agree there should be regulation on corp. that are providing products so dangerously obtained but then again there should be BALANCE! I believe that a 2 or 3 party system is necessary for balance. There should be at least 2 points of view debating over issue's regarding congressional oversite. The problem IMO is on one side you have corp. trying to influence that oversite and on the other the liberal media. IMO right now the balance is tipped to the liberal side with NO opposing opinions because the american public is so frustrated over past legislation.

Companies shouldn't be allowed to prosper on national resources at the expense of the people. These resources belong to all of us, not just a bunch of bigwigs and stockbrokers. Hate to say it, but Hugo Chavez had it right when he told big oil, "you pay the people for their resources, or GTFO". I applaud him for that.

Wow Kramer, with all due respect the more you talk the more you sound like a communist! Hugo Chaves had it right? BWA HA HA! Your kidding right! Dude I hate to break the news to you but those resources belong to whomever takes the risk, makes the investment to own the mineral rights, pay the government fees and pull it out of the ground! Really Kramer please understand I mean no disrepect to you personally but that is a phuked up way of looking at things. It amazes me how you can see things that way and be serious about it Wow! If the majority of folks in this country see things as you do there is most DEFINATELY NO HOPE!

Natural resources belong to nature.
Everyone owns nature.
When you take natural resources you take from everyone.
Probably where Karl Marx derived "property is theft" from.

Well, there you have it. Congratulations this way of thinking WILL be the end of Merica! I feel bad for my kids generation because they are going to be the ones affected by a weak U.S. military and finacially! That makes me want to step up my efforts to buy property in the country where when the U.S. is dead I still have some hope for my family!

I have to admit jeff.. I have no idea how you equate an equal society to the downfall of america, a weak military, etc.. It's impossible to follow your train of logic at times.

But think of it this way-

You got a classroom of 30 kids. They live there, never leave. All food, blankets, etc. are provided for them, buffet style.

According to your logic, instead of evenly dividing up the food and everyone eating enough, the class bully will recruit a couple of goons, take ALL the food, and disperse it sparingly, while getting fat on the majority of it.

Yeah, your world sounds SO MUCH BETTER for everyone.

Think deeper bro.

Kramer, I don't believe that wealthy oilmen get to keep "all the profit" that is where you and I differ in opinion. I believe a corp. like Royal Dutch Shell or Exxon have a duty to their shareholders and that is their main motivation but they do generate LOTS of jobs, tax revenue's and opportunities for people to that end! IMO there is nothing wrong with that. Companies should be allowed to prosper that is REALLY the motivation. I agree there should be regulation on corp. that are providing products so dangerously obtained but then again there should be BALANCE! I believe that a 2 or 3 party system is necessary for balance. There should be at least 2 points of view debating over issue's regarding congressional oversite. The problem IMO is on one side you have corp. trying to influence that oversite and on the other the liberal media. IMO right now the balance is tipped to the liberal side with NO opposing opinions because the american public is so frustrated over past legislation.

Companies shouldn't be allowed to prosper on national resources at the expense of the people. These resources belong to all of us, not just a bunch of bigwigs and stockbrokers. Hate to say it, but Hugo Chavez had it right when he told big oil, "you pay the people for their resources, or GTFO". I applaud him for that.

Wow Kramer, with all due respect the more you talk the more you sound like a communist! Hugo Chaves had it right? BWA HA HA! Your kidding right! Dude I hate to break the news to you but those resources belong to whomever takes the risk, makes the investment to own the mineral rights, pay the government fees and pull it out of the ground! Really Kramer please understand I mean no disrepect to you personally but that is a phuked up way of looking at things. It amazes me how you can see things that way and be serious about it Wow! If the majority of folks in this country see things as you do there is most DEFINATELY NO HOPE!

Natural resources belong to nature.
Everyone owns nature.
When you take natural resources you take from everyone.
Probably where Karl Marx derived "property is theft" from.

Well, there you have it. Congratulations this way of thinking WILL be the end of Merica! I feel bad for my kids generation because they are going to be the ones affected by a weak U.S. military and finacially! That makes me want to step up my efforts to buy property in the country where when the U.S. is dead I still have some hope for my family!

I have to admit jeff.. I have no idea how you equate an equal society to the downfall of america, a weak military, etc.. It's impossible to follow your train of logic at times.

But think of it this way-

You got a classroom of 30 kids. They live there, never leave. All food, blankets, etc. are provided for them, buffet style.

According to your logic, instead of evenly dividing up the food and everyone eating enough, the class bully will recruit a couple of goons, take ALL the food, and disperse it sparingly, while getting fat on the majority of it.

Yeah, your world sounds SO MUCH BETTER for everyone.

Think deeper bro.

Wow Kramer you are incapable of understanding your own flawed logic. I am done trying to explain it to you but I'll leave you with one FINAL thought. Have you ever heard the story of the college professor whom asked the liberal students in his class to give part of their grade to the less successful in their class? When he asked them that they got pissed and said those students are lazy they don't try. They stay up drinking and don't study why should I give part of my grade I worked so hard for to the likes of them? Its a CRUEL world Kramer "think DEEPER"

The world is what you make it

Yours might be cruel,

Mine (while I can be dismal about the way things are going) is leaning in the other direction.. I have hope for mankind.

Your point about redistribution on school grades is thought-provoking and I will think on that and get back to you, so you see.. I'm not close-minded...