General Music Chat

Come on Yod, of course you can never prevent murders (or any of the other red herrings you tried to use). But you can help prevent the extreme mass killings by banning semi-automatic weapons. The type of weapon used in this atrocity was exactly that: a semi-automatic assault rifle that was banned until the law expired. I challenge you to make a meaningful suggestion to prevent these tragedies. But I don't expect one; you are happy just to parrot the NRA talking points. This makes you part of the problem.

1. I don't own a gun

2. I support the rights of law-abiding citizens to have guns.

3. The NRA is made up of law-abiding citizens who do as much as possible to prevent nut-cases from having guns.

4. I don't trust the government; not this one, not the last one, not the next one, not any of them anywhere.

5. This case, tragic as it is, is being exploited by leftists to divide you and I on the more basic issues of liberty.



Did you know that the worst example of murdering school children happened in your backyard and they didn't use a gun?






On May 18, 1927, a part-time caretaker at a school in Bath, Michigan, killed 45 people, including 38 children, when he blew up a school and then killed himself, along with two first responders at the scene. Another 58 people were wounded.
The 38 children were in grades three through six.
The Bath School Bombing faded quickly from history. What media there was in 1927 left the town after about a week, since aviator Charles Lindbergh had started on his flight to Europe.
However, there are parallels between the Sandy Hook and Bath disasters that are worth discussing.
The killer in the Bath School Bombing, Andrew Kehoe, spent months placing explosives inside the school. He used his job as a handyman to wire together two types of explosives, in an elaborate plan to bring down the building while it was occupied with students and teachers.
Kehoe also rigged his car with explosives and shrapnel, as well as his house.
Once Kehoe blew up his own house, he used a detonator to blow up part of the school. School Superintendent Emory Huyck performed heroically, rescuing children and adults from the disaster scene. After about 30 minutes, Kehoe drove up to Huyck and motioned him over to his truck.
Kehoe then blew up the truck, killing himself, Hucyk, and several others, including a child who survived the first blast.
Investigators later found more than 500 pounds of unexploded dynamite under the school. Kehoe had intended to kill hundreds of people, mostly students, but his wiring was faulty.
Kehoe had financial problems and was upset about having to pay taxes. He had killed his own wife before blowing up his house.
But the parallels to Sandy Hook are not in the method and motivation behind Kehoe’s madness. They come from the stories of heroism and compassion.
Bath was a small town, so all pitched in to clear the rubble, find the victims, and offer assistance. Help streamed in from the neighboring town of Lansing.
Michigan’s governor arrived that afternoon and helped to cart away the rubble. During the rescue efforts, the Michigan State Police had to disarm the huge cache of explosives that never went off.
In the days that followed, contemporary accounts said more than 50,000 people descended on Bath, either to offer help or to see the disaster scene.
“Relief workers could not get in or out of the village unless accompanied by motorcycle policemen and even then they made slow time,” said one newspaper account.
In the end, the state set up a relief fund for the school, which received numerous public and private donations. One politician wrote a personal check for $75,000.
And the population of Bath, once the outsiders left, went back to farming and grieved. Unlike today, there were no 24-hour TV news cameras remaining on the scene or talk shows debating the merits of the Second Amendment.






So now you're going to tell me that we should outlaw dynamite. Oh wait, it has always been illegal to own dynamite without a Federal License. You can't go down to the dynamite store and get a few pounds of it, yet this guy not only obtained it, he spent weeks placing it into the school.

We should pass laws that no one can use dynamite to blow up a school! That will stop it.




If I thought for a minute that gun control would be heeded by criminals, I'd be all for it. But the common sense that God gave a horse will tell you that when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have them. Law abiding citizens will then be at their mercy.

I remember the concealed carry debate in Texas during the 80s. Dallas and Houston had been in competition for the Murder Capitol of the USA for several years before people were allowed to carry.

You know what? Violent crime dropped immediately and drastically once the criminals didn't know their victims were defenseless. Dallas and Houston both dropped off the Top 10 List immediately.

In fact, violent crime has been dropping all over the USA since states began allowing for concealed carry. For a while there, only tourists leaving the airport were being mugged in Florida because they obviously weren't carrying protection.



So what is the answer? In times past we were a more moral people but there were still nut-cases mass murdering people. The only real difference now is that we have a media with a liberal agenda who sensationalizes these events for political gain.

I don't see any way to put the genie back in the bottle. But I do know that making law-abiding citizens defenseless is NOT the answer.

Come on Yod, of course you can never prevent murders (or any of the other red herrings you tried to use). But you can help prevent the extreme mass killings by banning semi-automatic weapons. The type of weapon used in this atrocity was exactly that: a semi-automatic assault rifle that was banned until the law expired. I challenge you to make a meaningful suggestion to prevent these tragedies. But I don't expect one; you are happy just to parrot the NRA talking points. This makes you part of the problem.

1. I don't own a gun

2. I support the rights of law-abiding citizens to have guns.

3. The NRA is made up of law-abiding citizens who do as much as possible to prevent nut-cases from having guns.

4. I don't trust the government; not this one, not the last one, not the next one, not any of them anywhere.

5. This case, tragic as it is, is being exploited by leftists to divide you and I on the more basic issues of liberty.



Did you know that the worst example of murdering school children happened in your backyard and they didn't use a gun?






On May 18, 1927, a part-time caretaker at a school in Bath, Michigan, killed 45 people, including 38 children, when he blew up a school and then killed himself, along with two first responders at the scene. Another 58 people were wounded.
The 38 children were in grades three through six.
The Bath School Bombing faded quickly from history. What media there was in 1927 left the town after about a week, since aviator Charles Lindbergh had started on his flight to Europe.
However, there are parallels between the Sandy Hook and Bath disasters that are worth discussing.
The killer in the Bath School Bombing, Andrew Kehoe, spent months placing explosives inside the school. He used his job as a handyman to wire together two types of explosives, in an elaborate plan to bring down the building while it was occupied with students and teachers.
Kehoe also rigged his car with explosives and shrapnel, as well as his house.
Once Kehoe blew up his own house, he used a detonator to blow up part of the school. School Superintendent Emory Huyck performed heroically, rescuing children and adults from the disaster scene. After about 30 minutes, Kehoe drove up to Huyck and motioned him over to his truck.
Kehoe then blew up the truck, killing himself, Hucyk, and several others, including a child who survived the first blast.
Investigators later found more than 500 pounds of unexploded dynamite under the school. Kehoe had intended to kill hundreds of people, mostly students, but his wiring was faulty.
Kehoe had financial problems and was upset about having to pay taxes. He had killed his own wife before blowing up his house.
But the parallels to Sandy Hook are not in the method and motivation behind Kehoe’s madness. They come from the stories of heroism and compassion.
Bath was a small town, so all pitched in to clear the rubble, find the victims, and offer assistance. Help streamed in from the neighboring town of Lansing.
Michigan’s governor arrived that afternoon and helped to cart away the rubble. During the rescue efforts, the Michigan State Police had to disarm the huge cache of explosives that never went off.
In the days that followed, contemporary accounts said more than 50,000 people descended on Bath, either to offer help or to see the disaster scene.
“Relief workers could not get in or out of the village unless accompanied by motorcycle policemen and even then they made slow time,” said one newspaper account.
In the end, the state set up a relief fund for the school, which received numerous public and private donations. One politician wrote a personal check for $75,000.
And the population of Bath, once the outsiders left, went back to farming and grieved. Unlike today, there were no 24-hour TV news cameras remaining on the scene or talk shows debating the merits of the Second Amendment.






So now you're going to tell me that we should outlaw dynamite. Oh wait, it has always been illegal to own dynamite without a Federal License. You can't go down to the dynamite store and get a few pounds of it, yet this guy not only obtained it, he spent weeks placing it into the school.

We should pass laws that no one can use dynamite to blow up a school! That will stop it.




If I thought for a minute that gun control would be heeded by criminals, I'd be all for it. But the common sense that God gave a horse will tell you that when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have them. Law abiding citizens will then be at their mercy.

Like I tried once to explain to some family members... just because something is made illegal doesn't make it go away.
It's just illegal.
So, you've created more criminals.

This is a test and a thread jack

Wow!!! .... that just screams Mid-Life Crisis cliche!

Really, if you take a big-picture look at these tragedies, there is almost always some mental health issue being obscured by the sensationalist aspect of the story.

I have a brother in law who is capable of doing something like this. He has serious mental issues but there seems to be nothing that can be done about it. His family is hiding this "secret" and I just thought he was stupid for the first few months I knew him.

We would love to be able to care for him but his mental state makes it extremely dangerous to be around my kids. He was living with one of his sisters and she came home one night to find him sitting on the couch with a shotgun wearing nothing but Miracle Whip. We get calls from police departments often about his latest crazy adventure, which included chasing cars on the LA Freeway naked.

In my opinion, some kind of assisted living situation for the mentally ill would be a MUCH better solution than what is being proposed by the leftists on this latest example of a mentally ill person going off. As it is, they institutionalize them for a few months and then release them to an unknowing public who has no idea who they're dealing with...and the danger they are in.





.

Really, if you take a big-picture look at these tragedies, there is almost always some mental health issue being obscured by the sensationalist aspect of the story.

I have a brother in law who is capable of doing something like this. He has serious mental issues but there seems to be nothing that can be done about it. His family is hiding this "secret" and I just thought he was stupid for the first few months I knew him.

We would love to be able to care for him but his mental state makes it extremely dangerous to be around my kids. He was living with one of his sisters and she came home one night to find him sitting on the couch with a shotgun wearing nothing but Miracle Whip. We get calls from police departments often about his latest crazy adventure, which included chasing cars on the LA Freeway naked.

In my opinion, some kind of assisted living situation for the mentally ill would be a MUCH better solution than what is being proposed by the leftists on this latest example of a mentally ill person going off. As it is, they institutionalize them for a few months and then release them to an unknowing public who has no idea who they're dealing with...and the danger they are in.

That's part of the legacy of the Reagan administration.
It became routine back then to just let the calmer of the crazies go, on an unsuspecting world.

Come on Yod, of course you can never prevent murders (or any of the other red herrings you tried to use). But you can help prevent the extreme mass killings by banning semi-automatic weapons. The type of weapon used in this atrocity was exactly that: a semi-automatic assault rifle that was banned until the law expired. I challenge you to make a meaningful suggestion to prevent these tragedies. But I don't expect one; you are happy just to parrot the NRA talking points. This makes you part of the problem.

1. I don't own a gun

2. I support the rights of law-abiding citizens to have guns.

3. The NRA is made up of law-abiding citizens who do as much as possible to prevent nut-cases from having guns.

4. I don't trust the government; not this one, not the last one, not the next one, not any of them anywhere.

5. This case, tragic as it is, is being exploited by leftists to divide you and I on the more basic issues of liberty.



Did you know that the worst example of murdering school children happened in your backyard and they didn't use a gun?






On May 18, 1927, a part-time caretaker at a school in Bath, Michigan, killed 45 people, including 38 children, when he blew up a school and then killed himself, along with two first responders at the scene. Another 58 people were wounded.
The 38 children were in grades three through six.
The Bath School Bombing faded quickly from history. What media there was in 1927 left the town after about a week, since aviator Charles Lindbergh had started on his flight to Europe.
However, there are parallels between the Sandy Hook and Bath disasters that are worth discussing.
The killer in the Bath School Bombing, Andrew Kehoe, spent months placing explosives inside the school. He used his job as a handyman to wire together two types of explosives, in an elaborate plan to bring down the building while it was occupied with students and teachers.
Kehoe also rigged his car with explosives and shrapnel, as well as his house.
Once Kehoe blew up his own house, he used a detonator to blow up part of the school. School Superintendent Emory Huyck performed heroically, rescuing children and adults from the disaster scene. After about 30 minutes, Kehoe drove up to Huyck and motioned him over to his truck.
Kehoe then blew up the truck, killing himself, Hucyk, and several others, including a child who survived the first blast.
Investigators later found more than 500 pounds of unexploded dynamite under the school. Kehoe had intended to kill hundreds of people, mostly students, but his wiring was faulty.
Kehoe had financial problems and was upset about having to pay taxes. He had killed his own wife before blowing up his house.
But the parallels to Sandy Hook are not in the method and motivation behind Kehoe’s madness. They come from the stories of heroism and compassion.
Bath was a small town, so all pitched in to clear the rubble, find the victims, and offer assistance. Help streamed in from the neighboring town of Lansing.
Michigan’s governor arrived that afternoon and helped to cart away the rubble. During the rescue efforts, the Michigan State Police had to disarm the huge cache of explosives that never went off.
In the days that followed, contemporary accounts said more than 50,000 people descended on Bath, either to offer help or to see the disaster scene.
“Relief workers could not get in or out of the village unless accompanied by motorcycle policemen and even then they made slow time,” said one newspaper account.
In the end, the state set up a relief fund for the school, which received numerous public and private donations. One politician wrote a personal check for $75,000.
And the population of Bath, once the outsiders left, went back to farming and grieved. Unlike today, there were no 24-hour TV news cameras remaining on the scene or talk shows debating the merits of the Second Amendment.






So now you're going to tell me that we should outlaw dynamite. Oh wait, it has always been illegal to own dynamite without a Federal License. You can't go down to the dynamite store and get a few pounds of it, yet this guy not only obtained it, he spent weeks placing it into the school.

We should pass laws that no one can use dynamite to blow up a school! That will stop it.




If I thought for a minute that gun control would be heeded by criminals, I'd be all for it. But the common sense that God gave a horse will tell you that when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have them. Law abiding citizens will then be at their mercy.

I remember the concealed carry debate in Texas during the 80s. Dallas and Houston had been in competition for the Murder Capitol of the USA for several years before people were allowed to carry.

You know what? Violent crime dropped immediately and drastically once the criminals didn't know their victims were defenseless. Dallas and Houston both dropped off the Top 10 List immediately.

In fact, violent crime has been dropping all over the USA since states began allowing for concealed carry. For a while there, only tourists leaving the airport were being mugged in Florida because they obviously weren't carrying protection.



So what is the answer? In times past we were a more moral people but there were still nut-cases mass murdering people. The only real difference now is that we have a media with a liberal agenda who sensationalizes these events for political gain.

I don't see any way to put the genie back in the bottle. But I do know that making law-abiding citizens defenseless is NOT the answer.

We are not supposed to trust our government.
That is the basic premiss behind our constitution.
And why it is necessary to hold the elected criminals accountable for every violation of it.

A strict constitutional government would hang Obama and the majority of both the house and senate . . . for they are traitors to the people of the republic.

We are not supposed to trust our government.
That is the basic premiss behind our constitution.
And why it is necessary to hold the elected criminals accountable for every violation of it.

A strict constitutional government would hang Obama and the majority of both the house and senate . . . for they are traitors to the people of the republic.

Patton Oswalt - Shouldn't Bush be executed?
http://youtu.be/J_hYMR7S_HQ

"These are not the droids you are looking for". lol

"That's part of the legacy of the Reagan administration.
It became routine back then to just let the calmer of the crazies go, on an unsuspecting world.
"

Wrong Mike. I was living in Baltimore when that happened - seventies. jimmy carter. The 'homeless' population suddenly jumped big time when those screwballs opened the aslyums.

Talbot

"That's part of the legacy of the Reagan administration.
It became routine back then to just let the calmer of the crazies go, on an unsuspecting world.
"

Wrong Mike. I was living in Baltimore when that happened - seventies. jimmy carter. The 'homeless' population suddenly jumped big time when those screwballs opened the aslyums.

Talbot

you can take it all the way back to the "Great Society" of LBJ where the welfare state was installed.


Reagan was only a conservative target the liberals could try to blame for everything they had done. Just like Bush gets blamed for the financial mess created by laws passed under Jimmy Carter and expanded under Clinton giving way to mandatory bank loans to people who don't qualify for them, and groups like ACORN to steal taxpayers blind.

We are not supposed to trust our government.
That is the basic premiss behind our constitution.

I know that and you know that but our educational system has indoctrinated so many skulls-full-of-mush in the last few decades that you can't find a liberal who knows that anymore. They have all become Statists, endorsing fascism.

It used to be that liberals were a balance to conservatives, but not anymore. Now they are either knowingly or ignorantly destroying the system that gave them the right to speak. They don't seem to understand that once they've prevailed, they themselves will be the first targets of a totalitarian dictator.

Again....education has failed us.

And why it is necessary to hold the elected criminals accountable for every violation of it.

A strict constitutional government would hang Obama and the majority of both the house and senate . . . for they are traitors to the people of the republic.

The fact that Barney Frank isn't wearing an orange jump suit and sleeping in an 8x8 cell with Bubba tells me that the USA is on the fast road to tyranny, and we'll all rue the day we heard the name Obama in the very near future.

"That's part of the legacy of the Reagan administration.
It became routine back then to just let the calmer of the crazies go, on an unsuspecting world.
"

Wrong Mike. I was living in Baltimore when that happened - seventies. jimmy carter. The 'homeless' population suddenly jumped big time when those screwballs opened the aslyums.

Talbot

I think you have your decades and presidents mixed up.
The economy was suffering from stagflation still under Carter.
It really started with the Ford administration and the "oil shortage".
The homeless population was rising because of this.
But, it was Reagan's administration that made the homeless population explode.
Not only did economics play a part this time.
That didn't help matters.
But, many homeless were mental patients in facilities that had their funding CUT BY REAGAN.
So, the mental hospitals had to let them go.
Kicked out on their own and unable to care for themselves.
Carter didn't do that REAGAN DID.
His policies were continued by BOTH HW Bush and Bill Clinton.
At least under Clinton the economy gradually began to improve.
But, Dubya Bush undid most of what Clinton had accomplished (such as it was).
Look, I grew up in Detroit.
I went to school with homeless people all around.
I remember what happened because it happened HERE.
I watched it all unfold as I grew up.
So, spare me the blaming Carter for Reagan and his cronies' messes.
I know better.

We are not supposed to trust our government.
That is the basic premiss behind our constitution.
And why it is necessary to hold the elected criminals accountable for every violation of it.

A strict constitutional government would hang Obama and the majority of both the house and senate . . . for they are traitors to the people of the republic.

A voice of reason in a myriad of chaotic thoughts.

I think you have your decades and presidents mixed up.
The economy was suffering from stagflation still under Carter.
It really started with the Ford administration and the "oil shortage".
The homeless population was rising because of this.
But, it was Reagan's administration that made the homeless population explode.
Not only did economics play a part this time.
That didn't help matters.
But, many homeless were mental patients in facilities that had their funding CUT BY REAGAN.
So, the mental hospitals had to let them go.

That is the revisionist version put out by Democrats, but like most of their propaganda it's a smokescreen to cover their own failings.

From the mid-70s to mid-80s there was a strong 'patients rights' movement generated by the mental health advocate community. Although there were many facets to this movement, one of the primary elements was a re-examination of the criteria for institutionalizing patients.

The point of contention revolved around interpretations of what it meant for a patient to be able to 'take care of himself.' Prior to this the interpretation was rather strict; if a patient could not earn an income and provide shelter and food for himself (and if there were no family members able to care for him), then he would normally be institutionalized.

Begining in the late 70s, the advocacy groups began to demand a lower standard. As long as a patient could merely wash and dress himself, and could perform the mechanical tasks of shovelling food into his mouth, then every effort was made to force the institutions to release them.

Predictably, most of the newly discharged patients were unable to take care of themselves in any meaningful sense of the word, and became the homeless people on the street. It's no coincidence that the decline in California's mental health insitution population closely matched the sharp increase of homeless (in California, at least) during the same period.

Reagan was not involved in this movement, nor was he a symptom or symbolic of it. Quite the contrary. The people who 'liberated' the inmates tended to be on the opposite end of the political spectum. In fact, it was the ACLU who provided legal representation to force the VA to release these patients.



.

MikeN

sorry, you're wrong on this one. I despise the Republican scum almost as much as the other communist party, the dems. But's let blame the guys who did the deed.

As for cutting funding. Good. What possible role should central govt pigs have in something like mental health?

In Atlanta we're forking out 13k per student per year. ANd processing out a bunch of dim bulbs. Cut their funding? Hell yeah. It's a parent's job to see to the kids education.

Disclaimer - I offer frequent finanical help to my wife's daughter's family who are home schooling. Their 12 year old boy just got accepted for college level lit and math. I support her son whose kids are in a Christian school and doing quite well.

But the public schools are a sh*t hole. It feels good in a smarmy way to say,'more pay for teachers.' But they aren't very good and they do a lousy job. Why pay for that?

Talbot