General Music Chat

I start with the chords, and fill in melodies and harmonies and bass after.
Lyrics come last.
But if the song seems catchy as it is, I may leave it as an instrumental.

Its hard to repeat the same approach...Each song seems different to me and calls on different attack of emphasis . SOme days, the entire song. music , lyrics and all just falls into my lap... other days, musical theme previals and I search for the lyric...And yet, on other other days, I have lyric , and cant seem to reconcile it to music... It all depends on each song.

I happen to like atypical songs where there is NO identifiable bridge, verse, chorus, or anything.
But, that's just me.

SOme music is best expressed without the constraints of formal structures. I am exploring some of that.

I happen to like atypical songs where there is NO identifiable bridge, verse, chorus, or anything.
But, that's just me.

SOme music is best expressed without the constraints of formal structures. I am exploring some of that.

I think that is the point in a songwriting workshop. To take time to explore and experience structure as well as the absence of structure in music. Dissect the familiar as well as the unfamiliar. Find your muse and there are no wrong answers.

Having a frame of reference, a vocabulary in common that musicians understand is useful:

“The most important thing in art is The Frame. For painting: literally; for other arts: figuratively-- because, without this humble appliance, you can't know where The Art stops and The Real World begins. You have to put a 'box' around it because otherwise, what is that sh*t on the wall?”
― Frank Zappa

Wow! Dog, you are probably the most prolific songwriter here and you are asking us how???

Vinnie... so you are third generation East Coast garment industry?? Out here sometimes it's tough to get people to wear garments at all:
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2 ... lawmakers/


I stink at solo songwriting but I have participated in the process with some limited success. To teach it I would develop an outline that breaks the process down into parts that people can understand:

Question. Why write a song at all?? Discussion

1 The process of taking life inspiration to lyrics (examples)
2. Song forms. typical VVCVCBCC (examples), atypical (examples)
3. What chords work well together harmonically and why.
4. Harmony, keys and mood. (examples)
5. Hooks, themes and melody and why we need them. (examples)
6. What is a bridge and when do we need it. (examples)
7. Keep it simple stupid. Simple songs that people identify with will have the greatest reach and stand the test of time. (examples)
8. Write a song together incorporating these elements.
9. Perform song together, Drink beer.... Done!

My2c

I happen to like atypical songs where there is NO identifiable bridge, verse, chorus, or anything.
But, that's just me.

http://youtu.be/spjcPS4ekOA

Wow! Dog, you are probably the most prolific songwriter here and you are asking us how???

Vinnie... so you are third generation East Coast garment industry?? Out here sometimes it's tough to get people to wear garments at all:
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2 ... lawmakers/


I stink at solo songwriting but I have participated in the process with some limited success. To teach it I would develop an outline that breaks the process down into parts that people can understand:

Question. Why write a song at all?? Discussion

1 The process of taking life inspiration to lyrics (examples)
2. Song forms. typical VVCVCBCC (examples), atypical (examples)
3. What chords work well together harmonically and why.
4. Harmony, keys and mood. (examples)
5. Hooks, themes and melody and why we need them. (examples)
6. What is a bridge and when do we need it. (examples)
7. Keep it simple stupid. Simple songs that people identify with will have the greatest reach and stand the test of time. (examples)
8. Write a song together incorporating these elements.
9. Perform song together, Drink beer.... Done!

My2c

I happen to like atypical songs where there is NO identifiable bridge, verse, chorus, or anything.
But, that's just me.

http://youtu.be/spjcPS4ekOA

Classic album.
I always preferred the Beatles during their acid-fueled era.
I'm not too into their earlier mop top phase.

I prefer to start with the lyrics if the song is to have singing. The words themselves should suggest a melody, and possibly a rhythm. Everything else is just filled in. If you can't whistle the tune it probably sucks.

I happen to like atypical songs where there is NO identifiable bridge, verse, chorus, or anything.
But, that's just me.

I asked Robin Lane (... and the Chartbusters, she sang on Neil Youn'g Everybody Knows album) who gave the workshop I went to about that, because I often stumbled on adding a decent bridge to a song, and she questioned the need to add a bridge and suggested listening to off-stream artists who use atypical song structures.

I think you need to plan the class according to WHO is going to be attending - not only their level of songwriting skill, but also their instrument/vocal ability and experience.

I would venture to say that more songwriting is done with lyrics first, and that's probably the only way to approach a workshop unless you are dealing with everyone at pro or semi-pro level.
I don't think you could have workshop on instrumental songwriting with anything BUT pros.

Wow! Dog, you are probably the most prolific songwriter here and you are asking us how???

Vinnie... so you are third generation East Coast garment industry?? Out here sometimes it's tough to get people to wear garments at all:
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2 ... lawmakers/


I stink at solo songwriting but I have participated in the process with some limited success. To teach it I would develop an outline that breaks the process down into parts that people can understand:

Question. Why write a song at all?? Discussion

1 The process of taking life inspiration to lyrics (examples)
2. Song forms. typical VVCVCBCC (examples), atypical (examples)
3. What chords work well together harmonically and why.
4. Harmony, keys and mood. (examples)
5. Hooks, themes and melody and why we need them. (examples)
6. What is a bridge and when do we need it. (examples)
7. Keep it simple stupid. Simple songs that people identify with will have the greatest reach and stand the test of time. (examples)
8. Write a song together incorporating these elements.
9. Perform song together, Drink beer.... Done!

My2c

they say Stairway To Heaven was written using the technique of "automatic writing" which is inspired by knowledge of the occult? also, you need to come to terms with runic symbols..LOL

Vinnie... so you are third generation East Coast garment industry?? Out here sometimes it's tough to get people to wear garments at all:
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2 ... lawmakers/
c

why is it that those who like to protest in the nude are never people you actually want to see naked?

It's depressing.




Hey dawg, you should contact others who put these kinds of event on. The Dallas Songwriters Network comes to mind...as does TMA in Austin.

You might be surprised at how easy it is to get a top-name songwriter involved too. They're more accessable than a recording artist and this would stroke their egos to do. I've got a couple of people in mind if you want to do that...






.

Wow! Dog, you are probably the most prolific songwriter here and you are asking us how???

LOL! I cant even tell you how I write my own songs...That is, I dont know why I break or bridge when i do, other than it just seemed like the right thing at that time... I'm just wondering how I am gonna explain it... I have no Idea!

And here lies the problem with teaching someone how to write a song

In a workshop you don't TEACH people how to write a song, you get them to interact and use their minds (maybe in a new way) in order to create.

In a workshop you don't TEACH people how to write a song, you get them to interact and use their minds (maybe in a new way) in order to create.

It’s interesting to read how the Red Hot Chili Peppers’ writing style evolved.
Originally, they just jammed and put different parts together, whichever sounded good.
But, later…around when they recorded “One Hot Minute”, Flea went on his own.
He wrote by himself with just a bass and cassette deck. Then, he brought the songs to the band when they were nearly finished.
Then, they jammed on the songs and worked the kinks out.

Metallica still just freestyle jam. They record it all to tape and then sift through the tapes looking for different pieces to put together.

Rush decide on which key to record an album. Geddy Lee then puts something together on his computer, in MIDI, for the band to work on.

Frank Zappa & Tatsuya Yoshida (RUINS) both wrote alone, on a piece of paper. They brought the finished work to the band and the band played what was written, verbatim.

Captain Beefheart was pretty unusual. He would whistle a melody or bang it out on a piano and tell the band to interpret what he had done.

Jello Biafra (Dead Kennedys) is kinda like that. He SINGS the melody in his head to a cassette and gives it to the guitarist, who then has to interpret that with the rest of the band.

Faith No More worked more piecemeal. Each band member added their parts on a tape they traded around. But, I think Mike Bordin, Billy Gould, and Roddy Bottom started it off by jamming together without the others.

Ween believed in “quantity over quality”. EVERY DAY, from around 10 am to 6 pm the two of them recorded on their 4-track. It could be stupid garbage! It could be anything! But, they pretty much kept up that schedule from 1985-2012. Only a small percentage of what they came up with was actually used. But, they have dozens of garbage bags in their basements FULL of completed tapes. Stephen King writes kinda like that.


BTW, I’ve found that lots of caffeine and a few alcoholic drinks help loosen the creative process.
My favorite is a White Cuban with a scoop of vanilla ice cream! Mmmmm!

I apologize for my half truth comment about "Stairway To Heaven" .. actually after just browsing wiki subject: STAIRWAY TO HEAVEN I found only the lyric was spontaneously produced out of nowhere... the music actually took quite some time to create per Jimmy Page..

I would ask them if there was any type of song they would like to try to write first. Genre

Then I would ask them to try to write one or two lines. Then take the ideas and submit them to the whole class one at a time to get a group approval for a beginning song.

Ask them to come up with a simple melody so that cadence can be set for the rest of the lyrics. Group effort group approval. Then write a collaborative song using the best submitted ideas from each of them, and explain why they were good or not so good.

Then go on to the next best opening lines and start all over again... kind of a learn as you go think tank.

If that doesn't pan out then tell them my ideas suck and go with the next suggestion.