General Music Chat

I don't give a FUUCK about milton friedman ,or just about any thing you post.

You are not in touch with reality.

Actually, not all corporations are bad in my book. I find more greedy small businesses than big corporations. They're manned by militant assholes who act like they're dictating a small country rather than managing a company. They stiff their workers, they're cheap, and then they bitch about how expensive it is to run a company to justify it all. Well dickhead you're not doing me any favors, there's a bunch of other people who have companies and work for me. It also amazes me how many people just grab their genitals and start a company and do like zero research and have zero business sense, and these are the people I see get screwed.

And I know more greedy poor and middle-class people than rich people. While I do know the typical rich snob - usually a noveau riche idiot - I know some rich people who are very noble, generous, and humble people. They worked hard for where they are and they got what they deserve.

I work for a very well-to-do firm and have always worked for big corporations because they take care of me. I learned in the 80s where the most job security would be and where I could make the most, and I that's where I went and that's where I still am.

I don't envy rich people. You get what you get in this life. Some worked from the bottom up and sacrificed much, some got plain old lucky, and then there's those middle of the road folks that had a mixture of both.

As far as me thinking that this is going to be a fair country where this socialism everyone is afraid of will come into play. Not right now it won't. And I'm more afraid of the people talking about they want a revolution than what we already have. I listen to these people talk and I think to myself, I don't want this fools in power. They'd f**k everything up worse than what it is now.

Chaeya

Chaeya, I believe the reason these smaller company's, poor, lower middle class are greedy is because of desperation! I was one of those small business people that started a business with no research or anything. I am a master carpenter. Back in the early 80's there was a recession that IMO was worse than the one today! I could NOT find a job to save my life. Well being in my late 20's with a skill and the youth to work like hell. I had 2 choices, move to California or start my own business. I did it because it seemed like the best thing to do! Of coarse I had a "band" keeping me here in Texas but I had a family!

Bob Seger sang the words "the po man got to have his green" its true and is desperation!

Close on the Seger lyrics but the actual words are "Here come the poor man all he got to have is green". Subtle difference but what it means is for the poor man, if he could just get some money things would be OK.

Close on the Seger lyrics but the actual words are "Here come the poor man all he got to have is green". Subtle difference but what it means is for the poor man, if he could just get some money things would be OK.

Thanks Jimmy! I love BOB SEGER! I wouldn't even CARE if he is a Democrat! He is still BADASS!

I don't give a FUUCK about milton friedman ,or just about any thing you post.

You are not in touch with reality.

"As mass-capital-venturing flourished after World War I, General Foods Company absorbed many pre-World War I individually owned, independent mass-producers of canned and packaged food. General Electric acquired other successful electrical goods manufacturers. The growth of corporate venture activity was, however, at that time yet identified by unique product categories.

After World War II, "mergers and acquisitions" and outright "takeovers" agglomerated almost all successful industrial capital ventures, regardless of their class of produced goods and services. The great conglomerates found it more profitable, safer, and more credit-powerful to diversify their risking. The successful "biggies" became ever more gargantuan—for example, the Dupont chemical company's 1981 acquisition of Conoco, America's ninth-largest oil company, for $7.57 billion, to form the seventh-largest industrial corporation in the U.S. Because many of these conglomerations embraced all the national defense weaponry production, they "legally" qualified for guaranteed government "bailout" should their operation become financially "embarrassed" or debts unmeetable. The U S government's decade-ago bailout of Lockheed Aircraft or its multibillion-dollar guaranteed loan to private Chrysler Corporation (the government's military-tank producer) are the current outstanding examples." - Grunch Of Giants, 1982

Vinny ,Dane, The corruption comes from the government.
Corporations being the enterprising legal entities only use this for success.

The problem is the corrupt political powers that only seek to tap into the wealth a corporation can create.

You guys have it so backwards with your socialistic ideals and working so hard to vote in wealthy politicians that maintain this status quo.

Politicians only "create jobs" when they hire another flunky payed with tax dollars. Corporations can only create jobs when they are creating real product that ultimately creates NEW WEALTH.

You guys have it so backwards, you are all FUUCKED UP!

I've mentioned this before,,, Be careful before some one explains like this,,,,I've got a gun,,, STOP STEALING!

"As mentioned earlier, limited-liability, abstract corporate “beings” needed no passports to travel altogether invisibly across national borders. Soon after World War II, America's five hundred largest corporations became supranational, taking with them (out of the United States) the invisible legal controls over what had been born as American industry with all its "know-how." The know-how had been paid for initially by the U.S. people through their government's wartime (or "on the brink of wartimes") underwriting of the prime technologies as initially developed only for the U.S. Department of Defense or the Manhattan Project or the space program, developed in wartime at government ("we the people's") expense and turned over gratis for "operational efficiency" in "peacetime" to privately owned corporations.

World War I brought vast munitions-buying on credit by the U.S. government, and the figures ran into multi-millions of dollars as private U.S. industrial corporations acquired postwar operational rights to all the wartime government-financed new-era technology production machinery. Stockholders prospered. World War II saw the same U.S. government credit employed to produce "multi-vaster" new-technology munitions, with the dollar figures running this time into the multi-billions of dollars. World War III's third-of-a-century of "cold-warring" between the U.S.A. and U.S.S.R., waged vicariously through many hot-war puppeted nations, has seen the annual munitions figures running into the multi-trillions of dollars. The U.S.A. 1981 "national" debt is over a trillion dollars, and the U.S. cannot pay even the interest on that debt. We can very properly call World War I the million-dollar war and World War II the billion-dollar war and World War III the trillion-dollar war.

In the meantime, all the industrial research and development as well as its products have become involved with the invisible technologies of atomics, electronics, chemistry, molecular alloying, and information processing. All the research and development of all the products and services that are going to affect all of our forward days are now being conducted in the realm of the electromagnetic spectrum "reality" not directly apprehendible by any of the human senses.

While the North American-situated factories and spectacular city buildings seem to be and are thought of by humans as being American property because they are located on American land, most are no longer U.S.A. people-owned. For instance, though thought of as "American," a majority of the skyscrapers of Honolulu belong to Japanese bankers. Arabian oil billionaires own many U.S. city skyscrapers. Kuwait owns the large South Carolina coastal island of Kiawah.

What was once world-around high credit for American ingenuity and friendliness is no longer existent. On February 1, 1982, the United States ambassador to the United Nations stated to the media that all the “United Nations now hate the U.S.A.” What they hate is Grunch, but Grunch is able to deceive the world into blaming the very innocent people of the United States.

All the continental U.S.A.'s industrial factories and grounds and 90 percent of all that can and does produce physical wealth has already become or is about to become the humanly invisible property of inhumanly operative supranational corporations controlled by the invisible human owners of invisible Swiss bank account code numbers.

A vast new giant of approximately no-risk capitalism is now astride the world. "Earning" over a trillion dollars a year, this supranational giant's monopoly over know-how, wealth, research and development, and production and distribution facilities is worth at least $20 trillion (U.S.A. dollars, September 1981). While the giant now owns and controls four-fifths of the planet Earth's open-market bankable assets, $1 trillion of those giant's assets are in monetary gold bullion. " - Grunch Of Giants, 1982

Milton Friedman described corporations as inherently amoral, another bald headed guy with glasses, describes the bigger problem with uncontrolled corporations ...

"Fee-fie-fo-fum
I smell the blood of a Britishman
Be he alive or be he dead
I'll grind his bones To make my bread.

There is no dictionary word for an army of invisible giants, one thousand miles tall, with their arms interlinked, girding the planet Earth. Since there exists just such an invisible, abstract, legal-contrivance army of giants, we have invented the word GRUNCH as the group designation—"a grunch of giants." GR-UN-C-H, which stands for annual Gross Universe Cash Heist, pays annual dividends of over one trillion U.S. dollars.

GRUNCH is engaged in the only-by-instruments-reached-and-operated, entirely invisible chemical, metallurgical, electronic, and cybernetic realms of reality. GRUNCH's giants average thirty-four years of age, most having grown out of what Eisenhower called the post World War II "military-industrial complex." They are not the same as the pre-World War II international copper or tin cartels. The grunch of giants consists of the corporately interlocked owners of a vast invisible empire, which includes airwaves and satellites; plus a vast visible empire, which includes all the only eighteen-year-old and younger skyscraper cluster cities around the world, as well as the factories and research laboratories remotely ringing the old cities and all the Oriental industrial deployment, such as in Taiwan, South Korea, Malaysia, Hong Kong, and Singapore. It controls the financial credit system of the noncommunist world together with all the financial means of initiating any world-magnitude mass-production and -distribution ventures. By making pregraduation employment contracts with almost all promising university science students, it monopolizes all the special theoretical know-how to exploit its vast inventory of already acquired invisible know-how technology.

Who runs GRUNCH? Nobody knows. It controls all the world's banks. Even the muted Swiss banks. It does what its lawyers tell it to. It maintains technical legality, and is prepared to prove it. Its law firm is named Machiavelli, Machiavelli, Atoms & Oil. Some think the second Mach is a cover for Mafia.

GRUNCH didn't invent Universe. It didn't invent anything. It monopolizes know-where and know-how but is devoid of know-why. It is preoccupied with absolute selfishness and its guaranteed gratifications. It is as blind as its Swiss banks are mute."
- from "Grunch Of Giants" 1982

That is a great story. I have to admit you are finally showing signs of creativity. ONE TRILLION A YEAR? THATS ENOUGH TO WIPE OUT OUR NATIONAL DEFICIT IN A FEW YEARS.

I'm glad you still believe in fairy tales.
Yes, we should never have used tax payer dollars to bail out ANY company. This is absolute proof of the corruption that comes from absolute power.
Thank you for once again disproving what you thought was a brilliant political statement.

Milton Friedman described corporations as inherently amoral, another bald headed guy with glasses, describes the bigger problem with uncontrolled corporations ...

"Fee-fie-fo-fum
I smell the blood of a Britishman
Be he alive or be he dead
I'll grind his bones To make my bread.

There is no dictionary word for an army of invisible giants, one thousand miles tall, with their arms interlinked, girding the planet Earth. Since there exists just such an invisible, abstract, legal-contrivance army of giants, we have invented the word GRUNCH as the group designation—"a grunch of giants." GR-UN-C-H, which stands for annual Gross Universe Cash Heist, pays annual dividends of over one trillion U.S. dollars.

GRUNCH is engaged in the only-by-instruments-reached-and-operated, entirely invisible chemical, metallurgical, electronic, and cybernetic realms of reality. GRUNCH's giants average thirty-four years of age, most having grown out of what Eisenhower called the post World War II "military-industrial complex." They are not the same as the pre-World War II international copper or tin cartels. The grunch of giants consists of the corporately interlocked owners of a vast invisible empire, which includes airwaves and satellites; plus a vast visible empire, which includes all the only eighteen-year-old and younger skyscraper cluster cities around the world, as well as the factories and research laboratories remotely ringing the old cities and all the Oriental industrial deployment, such as in Taiwan, South Korea, Malaysia, Hong Kong, and Singapore. It controls the financial credit system of the noncommunist world together with all the financial means of initiating any world-magnitude mass-production and -distribution ventures. By making pregraduation employment contracts with almost all promising university science students, it monopolizes all the special theoretical know-how to exploit its vast inventory of already acquired invisible know-how technology.

Who runs GRUNCH? Nobody knows. It controls all the world's banks. Even the muted Swiss banks. It does what its lawyers tell it to. It maintains technical legality, and is prepared to prove it. Its law firm is named Machiavelli, Machiavelli, Atoms & Oil. Some think the second Mach is a cover for Mafia.

GRUNCH didn't invent Universe. It didn't invent anything. It monopolizes know-where and know-how but is devoid of know-why. It is preoccupied with absolute selfishness and its guaranteed gratifications. It is as blind as its Swiss banks are mute."
- from "Grunch Of Giants" 1982

That is a great story. I have to admit you are finally showing signs of creativity. ONE TRILLION A YEAR? THATS ENOUGH TO WIPE OUT OUR NATIONAL DEFICIT IN A FEW YEARS.

I'm glad you still believe in fairy tales.
Yes, we should never have used tax payer dollars to bail out ANY company. This is absolute proof of the corruption that comes from absolute power.
Thank you for once again disproving what you thought was a brilliant political statement.

Yes 1 trillion, that was back then in '82 ... much more by now. Yes enough to pay off the national debt in a few years .... all gone into private bank accounts.

Some bailout stats:
In 1970, Richard Nixon bailed out Penn Central for $3.2 billion, Lockheed in 1971 for $1.4 billion and Franklin National Bank in 1974 for $7.8 billion.

Gerald Ford bailed out New York City in 1975 for $9.4 billion,

and Jimmy Carter bailed out Chrysler in 1980 for $4 billion.

President Reagan bailed out Continental Illinois National Bank in 1984 for $9.5 billion.

President George H.W. Bush bailed out the savings and loan industry in 1989 for $293.3 billion.

In 2001, President George W. Bush bailed out the airline industry for $18.6 billion; Bear Sterns for $30 billion in 2008; Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae for $400 billion; AIG for $180 billion; Citigroup for $280 billion, with $45 billion from TARP and he established TARP for $700 billion.

In 2009, President Obama bailed out Bank of America for $142.2 billion, with $45 billion from TARP ... And so on ....

Kramer with all due respect bro. you are living on a different planet! What the heck do you do for a living? Government regulation down? I have been in the construction biz. for 40 years and I have never seen the regulation in building codes and with OSHA, ADA, you have to have so many kinds of insurance to be in ANY business these days. Let alone Medical Mal-practice insurance. I am not trying to insult you when I say your points are outright LIES! Having said that please understand I am only debating not wanting to get personal but Geeze dude!

Well I think you are talking apples and oranges, the regulations you are speaking of sound more like city zoning laws, not federal regulations. Sure some OSHA regulations affect zoning, but not to the extent of what this discussion is about- that's small potatoes. What about the telecom deregulation, the wall st deregulation, the clean air act (environmental deregulation), and honestly too many more to name.

I could, of course, cite a reference to each major de-regulation I'm discussing, if you want me to provide cites- but I think we both know that it would only waste my time, and you would probably not reference-check them anyways (see my links about bain and KB toys to glenn)

You are quick to frame what I say as lies without offering much in the way of proof, although maybe I wasn't specific enough in revealing the scope of deregulations I was discussing, so I can give a pass on that, but now that we're discussing nationwide federal major deregulations that affect everyone, not just local zoning, I'm sure my original points hold water.

I don't see where insurance is relevant to the discussions, as it's been fairly deregulated as well. The reason you pay more is because there's no regulations in place to put a cap on their robbery of people like you and me. Malpractice is a wholly different story and when you involve 10 billion lawyers in commerce, you are most definitely, as a consumer, not going to benefit from the outcome. Nor is your doctor, or his practice. They (insurance companies) have no rating system whatsoever to root out the problem doctors, there's no review board or regulation to strip criminally bad doctors from being insurable and practicing. Regulation here would solve the problem (and enforcement, of course).

Overall, I don't mind you disagreeing- that's called discussion, and that's what we're doing here. It would be boring here if we all slapped each other on the back and agreed all the time.. lol

Fatal flaw in logic here. Stupid people are just stupid. Wealthy stupid people are just stupid people with money. If I want some wisdom from the wealthy, I look to Warren Buffet, not some Aussy mining heiress:
http://www.investinganswers.com/educati ... sting-2310

Blaming others for our circumstances is the pinnacle of self-defeatism. It guarantees we will never crawl out of the hole we are in and we will forever be at the mercy of others because we give them permission to control our lives.

Businesses in the US have never been more regulated than they are today. There are a few key loopholes in banking and finance (introduced by democrats in 1999 under Clinton) but environmental, building codes, occupational safety, labor laws, truth in advertising, financial disclosure laws have never been tighter. Do your homework folks.

How this mess all started:
http://www.nytimes.com/1999/09/30/busin ... nding.html

Disclosure: I voted for Clinton twice but this re-regulation of subprime lending was the snowball that started the avalanche. It was the best of intentions "help the underprivileged to own a home" with catastrophic world shaking results.

Very interesting comment Chaeya
Socialism has been tried many times in many other parts of the world. It has failed countless times, and often opened the doors to brutal dictators.
This is America and the underlying fundamental problem in this country is not about redistribution of wealth,,,, Americans share and give what they can all the time. Americans should be proud of all their sharing.

IT IS ABOUT CONTROL FROM A CENTRAL GOVERNMENT USURPING THE RECOGNIZED POWER OF THE INDIVIDUAL.
In America you don't have to work for a corporation,,,,, but there is no free ride.

If all of you want America to succeed as we did with the space program in the 60s,,,, The individual must be allowed to succeed to be able to support the government.

IT IS NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

Glen, what in the heck are you talking about? Where did I state that people weren't allowed to succeed? Go back and read what I wrote again, a little bit slower next time.

Chaeya

Maybe "deregulation" was the wrong word.. it's all done through acts now, either banning them , or creating new ones. They all exist as law though, and most of them effectively deregulate a formerly regulated industry, so my choice of words here might be arguable, but certainly not factually inaccurate. Here's some examples:

Banking
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2009/11/12/ ... -steagall/

Telecommunications:
http://www.consumersunion.org/telecom/lessondc201.htm

Education:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ans ... _blog.html

Energy industry / Environment
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/ ... orruption/

Jobs / and banking again..
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/bl ... e-20120409

I could go on all day, but I have a job... my point was and is - that deregulation, regardless under what name it masquerades as- has been a direct conduit to some of the worst economic outcomes (for the poor and middle class, of course) in the history of this country. And most of it in the last 32 years.

My point about this "stuff" coinciding with the economic fall of the poor and middle class stands.

Fatal flaw in logic here. Stupid people are just stupid. Wealthy stupid people are just stupid people with money. If I want some wisdom from the wealthy, I look to Warren Buffet, not some Aussy mining heiress:
http://www.investinganswers.com/educati ... sting-2310

Blaming others for our circumstances is the pinnacle of self-defeatism. It guarantees we will never crawl out of the hole we are in and we will forever be at the mercy of others because we give them permission to control our lives.

Businesses in the US have never been more regulated than they are today. There are a few key loopholes in banking and finance (introduced by democrats in 1999 under Clinton) but environmental, building codes, occupational safety, labor laws, truth in advertising, financial disclosure laws have never been tighter. Do your homework folks.

How this mess all started:
http://www.nytimes.com/1999/09/30/busin ... nding.html

Disclosure: I voted for Clinton twice but this re-regulation of subprime lending was the snowball that started the avalanche. It was the best of intentions "help the underprivileged to own a home" with catastrophic world shaking results.

J7 it amazes me how quickly folks forget (myself included) A lot of those folks that the Dem. comgress forced the banking industry to loan money to should have NEVER been able to buy a home. In a lot of those cases the banks loaned more money than the home was worth!

Chaeya, I believe the reason these smaller company's, poor, lower middle class are greedy is because of desperation! I was one of those small business people that started a business with no research or anything. I am a master carpenter. Back in the early 80's there was a recession that IMO was worse than the one today! I could NOT find a job to save my life. Well being in my late 20's with a skill and the youth to work like hell. I had 2 choices, move to California or start my own business. I did it because it seemed like the best thing to do! Of coarse I had a "band" keeping me here in Texas but I had a family!

Bob Seger sang the words "the po man got to have his green" its true and is desperation!

Jeff, desperation is not excuse for shafting people and mistreating them, firing them for bullshit. Do you feel you were greedy? Did you lie and scheme your way into jobs?

My point is this: people talk about the evil corporations when the buck starts with individuals and small business. You have to treat the CAUSE not the SYMPTOM.

There is a ridiculous amount of greed in this country, but these people who are the big CEOs making the ridiculous bonuses, the heads of non-profit charities who make more than the charity distributes - many of these people started out in regular jobs somewhere.

People want change - you start with yourself. You live the life you want to see. If you want big corporations to stop being greedy, then stop being greedy towards your own workers.

Life is like this, you get what you put into it. If you operate from fear and anger consciousness, then you close out energy coming to you, and you will always have a fight on your hands. When you leave the negative energy alone and keep yourself centered, focus on what you want, do the work, do the research, then you will be taken care of. It isn't new age hooey, it's basic science. I've lived by that and I can tell you the good and the bad, and in some of the most pivotal times of my life, I chose to not worry and let go and amazing things happened.

Chaeya

Chaeya, I believe the reason these smaller company's, poor, lower middle class are greedy is because of desperation! I was one of those small business people that started a business with no research or anything. I am a master carpenter. Back in the early 80's there was a recession that IMO was worse than the one today! I could NOT find a job to save my life. Well being in my late 20's with a skill and the youth to work like hell. I had 2 choices, move to California or start my own business. I did it because it seemed like the best thing to do! Of coarse I had a "band" keeping me here in Texas but I had a family!

Bob Seger sang the words "the po man got to have his green" its true and is desperation!

Jeff, desperation is not excuse for shafting people and mistreating them, firing them for bullshit. Do you feel you were greedy? Did you lie and scheme your way into jobs?

My point is this: people talk about the evil corporations when the buck starts with individuals and small business. You have to treat the CAUSE not the SYMPTOM.

There is a ridiculous amount of greed in this country, but these people who are the big CEOs making the ridiculous bonuses, the heads of non-profit charities who make more than the charity distributes - many of these people started out in regular jobs somewhere.

People want change - you start with yourself. You live the life you want to see. If you want big corporations to stop being greedy, then stop being greedy towards your own workers.

Life is like this, you get what you put into it. If you operate from fear and anger consciousness, then you close out energy coming to you, and you will always have a fight on your hands. When you leave the negative energy alone and keep yourself centered, focus on what you want, do the work, do the research, then you will be taken care of. It isn't new age hooey, it's basic science. I've lived by that and I can tell you the good and the bad, and in some of the most pivotal times of my life, I chose to not worry and let go and amazing things happened.

Chaeya

Words of wisdom Chaeya! I have always started with myself. In fact I am harder on me than anyone else could ever be. Except my pops! I am FARRRrrr from perfect but I believe I have been honest, fair, fiscally responsible, for most of my life.