General Music Chat

What Jesus says http://youtu.be/BcvxSooANTY

These people HAD a place to go. Provided by their local society.
They CHOSE not to go there and shack-up in and on someone
elses property.
Condemed buildings are condemed for a reason.
Stupid is as stupid does.

of course, being homeless in Germany and Sweden is a pretty tuf prospect,
those countries get mighty cold and wet for most of the year.
for a great deal of the usa being homeless is easy.
and most of the time, easy is what it's all about.

homeless is such an attractive, comfortable term.

but in reality
we have pan handlers, criminals, drug addicts, alcoholics, insane and plain shiftless/lazy.

most working men and women who have a sense of responsibility some self respect rarely end up as street people. granted they live hard lives but hardly hopeless.
approach any homeless today and see if they are employable, in 99% of the cases you will find that they are so far out of the mainstream you couldn't give them supervision over a broom and dustpan.

of course, being homeless in Germany and Sweden is a pretty tuf prospect,
those countries get mighty cold and wet for most of the year.
for a great deal of the usa being homeless is easy.
and most of the time, easy is what it's all about.

homeless is such an attractive, comfortable term.

but in reality
we have pan handlers, criminals, drug addicts, alcoholics, insane and plain shiftless/lazy.

most working men and women who have a sense of responsibility some self respect rarely end up as street people. granted they live hard lives but hardly hopeless.
approach any homeless today and see if they are employable, in 99% of the cases you will find that they are so far out of the mainstream you couldn't give them supervision over a broom and dustpan.

I agree JCP61, I have tried to employ them (give them a chance) only to have them steal so they can get that next rock! From what Lynard said about Dane, Dane are you homeless? It is only $10.00 Dude!

I dont get it, what is a rich person? What do you consider a rich person.

Someone who is surviving this economic down term ?
Someone who has more than you?
Someone who has a 401K, a pension, no serious bills?
Someone with a net $1,000,000 worth.
$10,000,000 ?
Rich is a four letter word that means different things to different people.

Were those people breaking the law or not, yes or no.
By the way, the Bible says to follow the Laws of the land.

It's illegal to be homeless.

So, let's say you have a good job- you rent because you were responsible enough not to have a mortgage (debt), you own a 15 year old car because you were responsible enough not to have a new car loan. But you were given nothing via family inheritances, been on your own since 18, and while your ends meet, it's just barely. You live responsibly and are law-abiding.

Then you lose your job. You can't find another. You apply at McDonalds, everywhere else, in an attempt to have something, anything. You end up applying for welfare, but only get a fraction of what you made. You end up selling everything you have of value, including your car to pay your rent and bills. You run out of things to sell and months later, still can't find work. Temp agencies and work crew jobs are the norm, but you can't bring in enough for your 1br apartment. You fall behind on your rent, and ultimately get evicted. You have no family, and friends can't help you.

You are homeless. Now you are a criminal.
to most people in this country, you are also a lazy asshole who is a leech and a burden to society. You go to the church for help and get treated like the people in the article.

Welcome to america.

I dont get it, what is a rich person? What do you consider a rich person.

Someone who is surviving this economic down term ?
Someone who has more than you?
Someone who has a 401K, a pension, no serious bills?
Someone with a net $1,000,000 worth.
$10,000,000 ?
Rich is a four letter word that means different things to different people.

Were those people breaking the law or not, yes or no.
By the way, the Bible says to follow the Laws of the land.

It's illegal to be homeless.

So, let's say you have a good job- you rent because you were responsible enough not to have a mortgage (debt), you own a 15 year old car because you were responsible enough not to have a new car loan. But you were given nothing via family inheritances, been on your own since 18, and while your ends meet, it's just barely. You live responsibly and are law-abiding.

Then you lose your job. You can't find another. You apply at McDonalds, everywhere else, in an attempt to have something, anything. You end up applying for welfare, but only get a fraction of what you made. You end up selling everything you have of value, including your car to pay your rent and bills. You run out of things to sell and months later, still can't find work. Temp agencies and work crew jobs are the norm, but you can't bring in enough for your 1br apartment. You fall behind on your rent, and ultimately get evicted. You have no family, and friends can't help you.

You are homeless. Now you are a criminal.
to most people in this country, you are also a lazy asshole who is a leech and a burden to society. You go to the church for help and get treated like the people in the article.

Welcome to america.

Kramer, you just described my life after the oil bust of the early 1980's. Some of you remember that recession? Most of my family relocated to California. I stayed, had no work. On top of that I had a wife and 2 young children! You know what I did? I started my own remodeling business. I put an ad in the local paper with my last $50.00 2 days later I had ALL the work I needed! That poor guy you tell the story about hey I can relate. You can't however throw your hands up and quit trying! That is what makes this country great. You pack up whatever belongings you have left and migrate to the work!

These people HAD a place to go. Provided by their local society.
They CHOSE not to go there and shack-up in and on someone
elses property.
Condemed buildings are condemed for a reason.
Stupid is as stupid does.

they were TEMPORARY tent village)s not buildings and Larry Rice had the insurance bought held the lease in his hand as the St. Louis police escorted him to the paddy wagon..

These people HAD a place to go. Provided by their local society.
They CHOSE not to go there and shack-up in and on someone
elses property.
Condemed buildings are condemed for a reason.
Stupid is as stupid does.

Klugmo, Have you ever been to India?
Just in the City of Mumbai (Used to be Bombay) the disparity between rich and poor is abominable. I have stepped over 'impoverished' families, laid out on a sidewalk, covered with cardboard carpets and dirty prayer rugs, just to get inside a gated garden courtyard, owned and operated by the nations' wealthiest.

By day, they bow to the well off, and offer services ranging from cleaning your windshield, to polishing your shoes, for mere pennies.

When all the arrogant (Not so stupid) rich folks head home at night, then those impoverished families sell their daughters off for an hour at a time to desperate, lecherous old other homeless guys... Some are forced to hit bars with arm-fulls of drugs, roses, whatever else sells... Some have business prowess...and have resolved their indebtedness by sending their wives to "The cages", A district dedicated to sex slavery, under which these wives are obligated until the husbands debts are paid off.

The salient reality, my friend, is that homeless folks are usually "made" into criminals by the very system that rejects them.

In the USA, a majority of the homeless, were and still are War veterans (And get ready for a new wave of them).

They all started out innocent enough. But When you tell a man that he's a thief, long enough ...It's guaranteed, he will become a thief.

Indifference, and cold hard-hearted-ness toward the homeless is not a reflection of the homeless... Its the other way around.

Yes some are criminals and they will rob you blind...

If we want to save the world, The only real solution is for folks to start now, raising their kids to be strong, ethical, loving and compassionate. (I'll add they should embrace the 'spirit' of God and Christ).

I think a good example of this is Chaeya and how she works with her own child. SHe's doing her part. Imagine all parents doing their part as well.


In the mean time, When I see a fella who is absolutely down on his face (And you can tell the real ones from the bullshitters) , its too late,. The best I can offer him is a ray of comfort by throwing a buck or two into his hat...Its not the amount ...rather, its that gesture which suggests to him, there may be an inkling of hope, somewhere, somehow in his messed up life...that maybe the world isn't all monsters and pirates..that maybe there is an angel or two lurking in the fog.
Our purpose in life is to exemplify to our brothers and sisters, 'hope' , in the face of a world gone mad...

FInally,

There was a brief time in my life, when I lived at 1992 Camry. I was still better off than some of these guys. (I simply refused to believe I was a thief)

Doesn't is say somewhere that every impoverished muso has been homeless for a little bit, else they really weren't trying >?

(it sure feels that way)

When I hitch-hiked accross the country to Reno Nev. in the late 70s.
I had .12 cents in my pocket. When I got there 5 days later I slept in the
lower branches of a spruce tree in the park for 2 weeks. I washed in the
stream under the walk bridge in the park. I stayed also at the Salvation Army in the bad
part of town. I know what homeless is.

I also know about picking yourself up and doing what you have to do
just like J Haley talked about. There are places in this country where there is work.
You just need to be willing to do what you have to do.
GOD will take care of you if you are willing.
As usual it is based on FAITH.
"That which does not kill you, only serves to make you stronger"
That's how I feel.[/b]

When I hitch-hiked accross the country to Reno Nev. in the late 70s.
I had .12 cents in my pocket. When I got there 5 days later I slept in the
lower branches of a spruce tree in the park for 2 weeks. I washed in the
stream under the walk bridge in the park. I stayed also at the Salvation Army in the bad
part of town. I know what homeless is.

I also know about picking yourself up and doing what you have to do
just like J Haley talked about. There are places in this country where there is work.
You just need to be willing to do what you have to do.
GOD will take care of you if you are willing.
As usual it is based on FAITH.
"That which does not kill you, only serves to make you stronger"
That's how I feel.[/b]

Thank God...But also Thank this country for the system it has, which is relatively humane and compassionate. The homeless people I described in India are very enterprising. They would do work in America that nobody wants to touch. But the, The wealthy over there feel they are a threat. The wealthy over here, give them more opportunities (as we see with many U.S. corporations and schools) They live out years and years of poverty... In america, If one is homeless for more than a few months, then they aren't blessed with a full deck of efficacy, or they are incapacitated by addictions, or they are stone-walled by prejudiced social systems.

Kramer, you just described my life after the oil bust of the early 1980's. Some of you remember that recession? Most of my family relocated to California. I stayed, had no work. On top of that I had a wife and 2 young children! You know what I did? I started my own remodeling business. I put an ad in the local paper with my last $50.00 2 days later I had ALL the work I needed! That poor guy you tell the story about hey I can relate. You can't however throw your hands up and quit trying! That is what makes this country great. You pack up whatever belongings you have left and migrate to the work!

I can appreciate that. I too found myself losing my home, car, everything after the tech bust combined with 9-11. In an effort to save our house, myself and my wife put out ads to do everything from lawncare, house cleaning, child watching, computer fixin.. you name it. Didn't get a single job. Our family treated us like dirt, even though we did everything we were taught (get married, buy a modest house, have a kid), we lost at the great gambling table of america. In the end, I was working 3 jobs, making half of what I used to, and my wife stayed at home taking care of our kid. We ended up losing it all- landed in a 1br apartment. Our families saw us as failures and wanted nothing to do with us. They assumed since we weren't "making it" that it must be because we were lazy. Our child is mentally disabled- to them, she's "defective" and they want nothing to do with her.

It's taken me 7+ years to get back on my feet, and 4 years later (today), I'm STILL clawing a living, check-to-check, still falling between black and red on any given month. After being a stay-at-home mom for 9 of those years, nobody will hire my wife.

I guess my point is that in the depression we're in today, it's much much harsher than the 1981 recession, or the 1990 S&L recession, or the 2000 recession.. those were all short-term, the one we're in today is huge, it's going on 4 years and all signs point to it getting worse. All of our $$ is held by the fewest amount of people, a record in this country's history.

I know, all too well, how easy it is to be responsible and surviving one day, and destitute the next. Most of the homeless today, especially in these tent cities, are simply victims of circumstance, or downsizing, or offshoring, or simply victims of the huge bank fraud that (outcome undetermined) has potentially bankrupted this country.

Do I feel for them? Hell yes. I've been there and above all, got extremely lucky in the last couple of years that I've found a decent job that is secure and stable. My wife, however, can't even find temp work that lasts more than a few days at a time, with sometimes 1-2 months between.

Now in the case of the original story of this post, yeah, I have mixed feelings, but consider- these people have been trampled on pretty bad, by luck, by society, by their government, by their employers. The ones who chose to stay and make a stand are most likely the ones who are fed-up, bitter, and no longer wish to be pushed around. Following the same laws they used to arrest these people, hippie communes of the 60's would have never existed. This isn't about a condemned building- this is about peoples right to do what they want on private land.

Hell, you can pitch a tent in nearly any federal park and camp out, but you can't do it on your lawn? this is about perceptions- Had that been someone camping on their front lawn with their kids, would the same rules have applied? The law says yes, but we know the truth. Some people are targeted and others the laws don't apply.

I don't know of many places that do not have homeless shelters. From my experience with those who are homeless, they just don't want to play by the rules the shelters have set up. And that from the mouths of quite a few that I have met. A good many of them preferred to sleep outside in nice weather as opposed to sleeping in a shelter, so I am told by them. In cold weather they do go to the shelters. And even in nice weather they often go there for a free meal.

Life is full of rules.
Rules for those with houses.
Rules for those without houses.
Rules at work.
Rules in the shelter.
Taxes and other controls you deal with if you have some money.
Qualifications and limits you deal with trying to get some money.


My wife needs me to take the trash out now, so bye.
Rules are Rules

I can appreciate that. I too found myself losing my home, car, everything after the tech bust combined with 9-11. In an effort to save our house, myself and my wife put out ads to do everything from lawncare, house cleaning, child watching, computer fixin.. you name it. Didn't get a single job. Our family treated us like dirt, even though we did everything we were taught (get married, buy a modest house, have a kid), we lost at the great gambling table of america. In the end, I was working 3 jobs, making half of what I used to, and my wife stayed at home taking care of our kid. We ended up losing it all- landed in a 1br apartment. Our families saw us as failures and wanted nothing to do with us. They assumed since we weren't "making it" that it must be because we were lazy. Our child is mentally disabled- to them, she's "defective" and they want nothing to do with her.

Kramer I can relate to your story... It would be very interesting to note how the family sees you and treats you once you make a boatload of wealth... (and you will someday...)
My hat is off to you two for sticking through it for the sake of your child, too.