General Music Chat

When the automatic weapons are gone, so shall be your freedom, then you shall also become slaves. When those who are evil are the only ones with automatic weapons nothing shall stand in the way of complete tyranny.

The more power they steal, the bolder they become. Just look around you. How much freedom have you already lost? They have taken your land from you and given it to invaders. The invaders can break the laws of this land and go unpunished, you break the smallest of those laws and they desire to imprison you. They are taking your retirement funds and using it to support welfare for illegals. They don't belong here, they have never contributed, yet this regime is stealing your money and showering them with all manner of welfare for votes.

Yes, those who do not belong here are stealing your children's inheritance as well as their future. And you go right along with them and even are stupid enough to support what they are doing to you.

The Nazis claimed that they were only following orders when they killed and imprisoned the Jews. The brown shirts of today take your land, your houses, your jobs, and your future with a slip of paper and corrupt laws.

They also are "only doing their duty". But as with the Nazis, a day of judgment has been set aside for them. Each shall claim in their own defense "We were only following orders" yet this will work for them as well as it did for the Nazis after the war. Those obedient Nazis met their fate at the hands of just men who would not let their crimes against their brothers go unpunished. So shall it be for those who support this tyranny.

Maintaining individual rights and freedoms in this country is our best defense. Our founders clearly understood this.

unless of course you happened to be a slave. or a woman.

Hmmmm, not quite sure what you mean by this. Were women or slaves any less oppressed in 1776 China (foot binding), North Africa(genital mutilation), India, Germany, England, Arabian peninsula??? Oppression in 1776 was a function of the period, not the new US government.

sorry, i thought you were talking about "our founders" and how they were all about "Maintaining individual rights and freedoms" in a thread that's largely been about folk's rights here in america.

did other folks around the world have it rough too? of course they did. so?

It has taken a while but individual rights and freedoms have expanded a great deal since 1776. Native Americans, women and immigrants have never had more personal freedom and opportunity in the last 200 years than they do now. We still have a way to go though. Let's not muck it all up by adopting a "government please save me" policy.

see this is where it all gets hazy and people drift to their respective corners.
question being at what point the different camps define what we expect from our govt.

as in:
A. Gov't doing it's job and providing necessary services for those in need
B. viewing folks that do need genuine help as having a "gov't please save me" outlook.

sadly some automatically assume that everyone on welfare is getting fat on their checks driving around in their Escalades and Caddies while spending all OUR hard earned money.

and others might stop and consider that gee, someone w a family of four getting $900 a month living below poverty level really DON'T have it all that great.

and yeah, sappy as it sounds... i think it does come down to having some compassion for people worse off than us.

too many people have the attitude...."hey nobody gave ME anything. i had to scuffle and fight for mine.....so screw everyone else w their hands out"

The problem with individual rights and freedoms is that it requires personal responsibility. Some handle this better than others.

let's bring it back to where this thread started...about this wackjob going out and buying a gun... and one week later shooting up a Sikh Temple.... i agree w your above statement. some people don't handle that responsibilty very well. and as i see it...that's as good of an argument for better gun control as there is.

too many people DON"T handle responsibilty very well...and ya know what? they ruin it for everyone else. hey, it'd be great if everyone could just go out there and buy as many of the biggest guns they wanted....as long as EVERYONE can be responsible and play nice.

but obviously everyone WON'T be responsible. and that's why "individual rights and freedoms" have to be compromised sometimes.

That is the illogical that leads to slavery my friend.
An inanimate object is incapable of acts of evil.

Plenty of nutcases to go around with equal portions on both sides of the isle. As Jimmy said, crazy has nothing to do with political ideology. Crazy is just crazy.

I say let freedom ring! I am saddened by the stories of these disturbed individuals who feel they must kill others but this happens all over the world in different forms and using different tools. Outlawing firearms removes a convenience factor for the crazies but risks everything in the process. I accept that we will have some losses by bad actors here using firearms, yet choose that over the institutionalized mass murder of 100 million plus at the hands of crazies like Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and others who were given absolute power. Hitler was a piker when it comes to mass murder of his people.

An armed public provides one layer of defense against government madness. Freedom of choice for the individual provides another. It ain't perfect, it's just better than the alternatives.

Johnny wrote:

It has taken a while but individual rights and freedoms have expanded a great deal since 1776. Native Americans, women and immigrants have never had more personal freedom and opportunity in the last 200 years than they do now. We still have a way to go though. Let's not muck it all up by adopting a "government please save me" policy.

Oooohh...I was with you all the way until the Native AMericans statement.... How can I put this in a way that doesnt alienate the audience...?

Native Americans were doing just fine...(better than the europeans were), and then the colonies came over and ruined everything... Europe/Britain took away their bliss and peace, destroyed their health (killed em with diseases), outright murdered them to steal their land, coerced and shoved Christian religion down their throats... ransacked their resources...

Opportunities? Pray tell,, what would Running Bear need an IPad for? What piece of crap automobile would he become a slave to? And how many shops would he go through and work at to reach his spiritual center...

Now, to another poster, who refers to Canadians as "frost-backs" to the north (But he's not a bigot) as opposed to wetbacks in the south.. (But that makes me a bigot for saying that) ...I have this question? When are you prepared to give your house and lot to an American Native (Indian ) of said tribes, listed by the US govt as ethnic? Cause if yer gonna be a cool left wing liberal, greenie weenie type... you better check yourself and practices your own "Fair and politically correctness" before you drivel out criticism of others... Just sayin

Johnny wrote:

It has taken a while but individual rights and freedoms have expanded a great deal since 1776. Native Americans, women and immigrants have never had more personal freedom and opportunity in the last 200 years than they do now. We still have a way to go though. Let's not muck it all up by adopting a "government please save me" policy.

Oooohh...I was with you all the way until the Native AMericans statement.... How can I put this in a way that doesnt alienate the audience...?

Native Americans were doing just fine...(better than the europeans were), and then the colonies came over and ruined everything... Europe/Britain took away their bliss and peace, destroyed their health (killed em with diseases), outright murdered them to steal their land, coerced and shoved Christian religion down their throats... ransacked their resources...

Sorry Grant, I know we all thought Native American life was all peaches and kittens pre-Columbus but it simply ain't so. It was actually pretty brutal and short by most anthropologist accounts (average life span was 18-35 and varied by region and tribe). The great Early American civilizations were 1000 years earlier for the most part and tribes were already in decline. No one had any clue that the terrible diseases that ravaged unprepared native Americans would wipe out so many. Germ theory wasn't discovered until Pasteur in 1890. I posted a bunch of links regarding this over on the vampire thread a while back. If you wish to know more feel free to dig them out.

I am a certified American mutt with both European and Native American ancestry (Blackfeet Tribe). I have heard both sides plenty. Two generations ago my people ate dirt in Oklahoma and the Texas panhandle. Now I live comfortably and have 3 kids with 3 college degrees. All my kids have houses and good jobs. I say let freedom ring! Some will rise to it and some won't, as it should be.

Man the Native Americans had it right. If you did not pull your weight. . . they'd eat your ass.

A couple points:

the South did not "attack the north." We told them to get their sh*t out of our territory and they thought we were playing. The govt dumb asses still think that. We don't play. We've been pushed enough.

As to guns? The govt doesn't get a say in it. What part of divine right do some of you all not understand? We have guns to protect ourselves first from the govt, second from the ferals, and a distant third is sport.

I shoot sub machineguns some weekends here in GA (at Bullseye Range) with the nicest people you'd ever want to meet. (I love the new Zombi targets) We are not the ones killing people. Chicago has more people killed in a weekend than we do in Aphganistan in a month. And it ain't my southern pals doing it, I assure you.

btw - for you fellow gun enthusiasts - that MP 5 is the sweetest sub machinegun I've ever laid hands on. Controllable, slow rate of fire which means you get hits instead of splattering everything south of you.

Talbot

Johnny wrote:

It has taken a while but individual rights and freedoms have expanded a great deal since 1776. Native Americans, women and immigrants have never had more personal freedom and opportunity in the last 200 years than they do now. We still have a way to go though. Let's not muck it all up by adopting a "government please save me" policy.

Oooohh...I was with you all the way until the Native AMericans statement.... How can I put this in a way that doesnt alienate the audience...?

Native Americans were doing just fine...(better than the europeans were), and then the colonies came over and ruined everything... Europe/Britain took away their bliss and peace, destroyed their health (killed em with diseases), outright murdered them to steal their land, coerced and shoved Christian religion down their throats... ransacked their resources...

Sorry Grant, I know we all thought Native American life was all peaches and kittens pre-Columbus but it simply ain't so. It was actually pretty brutal and short by most anthropologist accounts (average life span was 18-35 and varied by region and tribe). The great Early American civilizations were 1000 years earlier for the most part and tribes were already in decline. No one had any clue that the terrible diseases that ravaged unprepared native Americans would wipe out so many. Germ theory wasn't discovered until Pasteur in 1890. I posted a bunch of links regarding this over on the vampire thread a while back. If you wish to know more feel free to dig them out.

I am a certified American mutt with both European and Native American ancestry (Blackfeet Tribe). I have heard both sides plenty. Two generations ago my people ate dirt in Oklahoma and the Texas panhandle. Now I live comfortably and have 3 kids with 3 college degrees. All my kids have houses and good jobs. I say let freedom ring! Some will rise to it and some won't, as it should be.

Whoa Johnny...I Never said or believed that it was peaches and kittens... But I can guarantee you they lived better in their short 30 years than most of us do today in our short 75 yrs. If you dig back to your studies (anthropology) there is plenty of evidence to suggest the Europeans brought disease, which wiped out many tribes... practically over night. It was an anomalous phenomenon in terms of 'Zoonotic' diseases and the tribes had never experienced that type of death rate before. (You don't need Louis Pasteur to validate the fact that 109 fever is not a good thing) When the Biologists and anthropologists report declining tribes, they also usually figure in for context of environments... Like any species, when left to nature and not artificially engineered, the population is self-correcting. 'Declining tribes' may have meant either a shortage of resource,..or discovery of an abundance of resources (being many were nomadic) leading to redistribution of a thriving population. In America, tribes population declined in the central regions and oddly enough increased along coastal regions (Study up on the Chumash Indians there in California) . They didnt arbitrarily disappear and die, Johnny. They found the good life and grabbed it... Just like us folks, except they respected the habitats more than we do.

THEN, we came along and murdered them in droves.

What do you know about the legend of Buffalo Bill? Well, I hear that old Bill was working for the Govt, which had drafted a genocide policy on the midwest Indians. (Have to look up the tribes...) . The legend of Killing so many buffalo, stems from the policy, which dictated that the tribal food supplies be cut off. It's really pretty Fn sick and makes me ashamed of my Anglo American Heritage.

You know I agreed with Slacker?

Then I agreed with PlanetGuy?

Who know what the phukk they're uo to?

Oooohh...I was with you all the way until the Native AMericans statement.... How can I put this in a way that doesnt alienate the audience...?

Native Americans were doing....

well, glad i was able to educate you, and that you're no longer incorrectly referring to Native Americans as "Native Indians" (who most intelligent folks know populate India) shucks...and not even a word of thanks.

Now, to another poster, who refers to Canadians as "frost-backs" to the north (But he's not a bigot)

damn, i can forgive your "Native Indian" ignorance but are you totally devoid of ANY sense of humor????

do you REALLY think the term "frostback" carries the same derogatory weight of "wetback"???? do you think there are many canadians...or anyone that would really be offended by that??? sorry dude....you're gonna have to do better than that to play this room!

I have this question? When are you prepared to give your house and lot to an American Native (Indian ) of said tribes, listed by the US govt as ethnic? Cause if yer gonna be a cool left wing liberal, greenie weenie type... you better check yourself and practices your own "Fair and politically correctness" before you drivel out criticism of others... Just sayin

not sure how that makes ANY sense at all... even to your warped ways of looking at things. maybe you can dazzle us all and explain why you think it's relevant.

and let me ask YOU this......since you're coming off as a bullying and bigoted neo con.....would you give YOUR house up to Dick Chaney?

and FURTHERMORE...would you eat a pizza if it didn't have pepperoni on it?

wait, wait...would you shoot hoops w david letterman?

oooh, ooh i know... would you not ask any more stupid questions that only you think are relevant and that make you think you're hitting it over the fence with it?