General Music Chat

If you honestly think that the level of quality of your piece is determined by either a DAW or a PRODUCER, I feel badly for you.

You are just delusional.

You can't take a pile of sh*t and professionally engineer it into something worthwhile just like you can't take a pile of sh*t and use a DAW on it to make it worthwhile.

It has to be reasonable at the lowest level of creative construction.
It has to have something you realllllly like and want to encourage about it.
It has to have that intangible quality to it.

You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

Although you can take crap and master it well. Then it's just well mastered crap aka "that song you really aren't happy with/do not like".

At least with a well constructed song, you can remaster it.
(DAW or Professionally Engineered, ssdd. It's all about the skill set, jrs.)

I'll give it a try. Let me know project name.[/b]

Ok I'll figure this out and open a project. Day job just got intense yesterday and is crowding my music time momentarily.


Mr. Scott,
You made my point exactly:
"DAW or Professionally Engineered, ssdd. It's all about the skill set, jrs."

Alan Parsons or Clive Davis could get excellent results with a home DAW because they have exceptional skill with the tools of recording. You and I (and most members on Bandmix)... not so much. Meanwhile you should carry on with whichever method you are most comfortable. I will do same.

OK Bud, take your time. I'm not going anywhere. [/b]

Engineer S - I don't think anyone is naive enough to believe the DAW is what makes the mix good. But in terms of work-flow, try creating a song with 10 tracks using Audacity versus REAPER... it's a no-brainer that a DAW isn't un-important if your goal is to record tracks and mix a song. Mastering is a different subject altogether and best left to a professional.

OK, I'm throwing one out there. I don't believe the first tune should be
an original at all. A simple cover will be best because it is actually an
experiment for us. Naturally I'm gonna suggest a big vocal song so here goes.

"Need Your Love So Bad" Gary Moore version.
http://youtu.be/YXljcwt7JMk

This is also a big guitar song so good luck with that.
Here is some help with that (HA HA)
http://youtu.be/nhdfNlqRlgs

Let me know.[/b]

Well I dont do covers..well enough for this, So I'm out

Good luck to you guys...

OK, I'm throwing one out there. I don't believe the first tune should be
an original at all. A simple cover will be best because it is actually an
experiment for us. Naturally I'm gonna suggest a big vocal song so here goes.

"Need Your Love So Bad" Gary Moore version.
http://youtu.be/YXljcwt7JMk

This is also a big guitar song so good luck with that.
Here is some help with that (HA HA)
http://youtu.be/nhdfNlqRlgs

Let me know.[/b]

Well I dont do covers..well enough for this, So I'm out

Good luck to you guys...

You know Grant,,, I have very little heart left to do covers unless they are just fun to PLAY..
Let me back you up here a bit. YOU KEEP DOING WHAT YOUR DOING!!!!

The DAW works just as well as a producer on a quality soundboard.

If the guy that's mastering has the skills, he's as good or better than a douchebag producer because he knows what to do and has no hidden agenda about converting your work/collaboration into something you never wanted to begin with.

Don't you know anything?

An artists' worst nightmare is some asshole producer that feels as if he has to leave his dickstamp on your tune. But that's what makes him good in your eyes, right?

f**k off.

The guy I want to work with is someone that can master but doesn't need to reinvent the wheel because WE JUST DON'T FING NEED IT.

He needs to be able to "master". If you get that concept, then nothing else is needed.

If not, in all likely-hood your overpriced asshole of a producer will change YOUR music.

If you like chaos and surprises, the producer route is for YOU !!!!
Weak writers are to benefit from this route as well as you don't much know about what you are writing, let alone what it sounds like.

I'd rather be shot at dawn than put up with some asshole that thinks he knows what I play well enough to insert diametrically opposed material(s).

I already had dance music shoved up my arse, it still smelled like sh*t.

If you know your music, use the DAW.

I think Les had such a grip on the DAW it easily eclipsed a regular producer and it's experience based. In other words, the more you work with it, the better you are.

Not every producer is in tune with the artist, the DAW doesn't care what you think. It is what you make it.

Would you rather paint the picture or pick out the colors?
Fortune favors the bold, time to stop being a pu**y all of your lives and get on with your music even if you aren't going on the Warped Tour.

Change your adult diaper(s) and get on with it.

OK, I'm throwing one out there. I don't believe the first tune should be
an original at all. A simple cover will be best because it is actually an
experiment for us. Naturally I'm gonna suggest a big vocal song so here goes.

"Need Your Love So Bad" Gary Moore version.
http://youtu.be/YXljcwt7JMk

This is also a big guitar song so good luck with that.
Here is some help with that (HA HA)
http://youtu.be/nhdfNlqRlgs

Let me know.[/b]

Well I dont do covers..well enough for this, So I'm out

Good luck to you guys...

You know Grant,,, I have very little heart left to do covers unless they are just fun to PLAY..
Let me back you up here a bit. YOU KEEP DOING WHAT YOUR DOING!!!!

Thanks Glen...

I could do covers ... But I cant see the point... To me, doing covers turns into a competition, in which the best cover artists land the most gigs...Which is fine...But it isn't something that excites me...And if it did excite me, I'm quite certain that I would suck at it anyway... If I didn't suck at it...that is...If i kicked everybody's ass here with my rendition of Jimi -Hendrix's Voodoo Child... guess who gets the credit? Jimi Hendrix! Lol! The thing about Covers is that no matter how well one does them, such artists never stand apart from the herd, other than being that guy who did stairway to heaven better than the other guy. And...has anybody ever seen an original band open for a cover band at the Garden? ha ha!

Now, don't nobody get me wrong... I admire and respect the sh*t out of cover artists...It is indeed a distinct skill and craft... Its just not one that floats my own boat.

The DAW works just as well as a producer on a quality soundboard.

If the guy that's mastering has the skills, he's as good or better than a douchebag producer because he knows what to do and has no hidden agenda about converting your work/collaboration into something you never wanted to begin with.

Don't you know anything?

An artists' worst nightmare is some asshole producer that feels as if he has to leave his dickstamp on your tune. But that's what makes him good in your eyes, right?

f**k off.

The guy I want to work with is someone that can master but doesn't need to reinvent the wheel because WE JUST DON'T FING NEED IT.

He needs to be able to "master". If you get that concept, then nothing else is needed.

If not, in all likely-hood your overpriced asshole of a producer will change YOUR music.

If you like chaos and surprises, the producer route is for YOU !!!!
Weak writers are to benefit from this route as well as you don't much know about what you are writing, let alone what it sounds like.

I'd rather be shot at dawn than put up with some asshole that thinks he knows what I play well enough to insert diametrically opposed material(s).

I already had dance music shoved up my arse, it still smelled like sh*t.

If you know your music, use the DAW.

I think Les had such a grip on the DAW it easily eclipsed a regular producer and it's experience based. In other words, the more you work with it, the better you are.

Not every producer is in tune with the artist, the DAW doesn't care what you think. It is what you make it.

Would you rather paint the picture or pick out the colors?
Fortune favors the bold, time to stop being a pu**y all of your lives and get on with your music even if you aren't going on the Warped Tour.

Change your adult diaper(s) and get on with it.

Scotty, I'm thinking that if I actually had a DAW, I'd f**k it up so bad I'd never get a song out of it... I seriously have no desire to be on the engineering side of recording... Simply becaase I'd spend 5 hours trying to figure out a feature, another 5 hours playing with it to decide if i actually needed to use it... and another 5 hours questioning whether or not I was even doing it the right way (wondering if i missed a cooler option) FPHUCK ALL THAT! LOL Im a writer, not a phuckin techie ...
I'm still not totally clear on what a producer is...As far as i can tell, on my CD project, I am my own producer, (And George is one seriously patient man with me) and I am the executive producer..in so much as i paid for all of it... and I direct the packaging at the end of it... As for mastering... Its absolutely not about the art at that stage... Its about the packaging.. Getting the freqs and presenation up to a Broadcast quality (even if the song doesnt warrant that exposure) . It takes a special skill for that...to take a piece of sh*t and clean it up... (If its sh*t..now its clean sh*t...but its still sh*t)

Scotty, I'm thinking that if I actually had a DAW, I'd f**k it up so bad I'd never get a song out of it... I seriously have no desire to be on the engineering side of recording... Simply becaase I'd spend 5 hours trying to figure out a feature, another 5 hours playing with it to decide if i actually needed to use it... and another 5 hours questioning whether or not I was even doing it the right way (wondering if i missed a cooler option) FPHUCK ALL THAT! LOL Im a writer, not a phuckin techie ...
I'm still not totally clear on what a producer is...As far as i can tell, on my CD project, I am my own producer, (And George is one seriously patient man with me) and I am the executive producer..in so much as i paid for all of it... and I direct the packaging at the end of it... As for mastering... Its absolutely not about the art at that stage... Its about the packaging.. Getting the freqs and presenation up to a Broadcast quality (even if the song doesnt warrant that exposure) . It takes a special skill for that...to take a piece of sh*t and clean it up... (If its sh*t..now its clean sh*t...but its still sh*t)

DAWs are a necessary evil for online collaborations because they are perfect for managing the tracks you'll need to play / sing to. Audacity is a primitive DAW, but it works fine. DAWs aren't supposed to color your sound - just organize and format it.

A producer is a person - a DAW is software. A soundboard is for mixing and how a producer got into this discussion is a mystery

I think a step back needs to be taken. The collaboration is not a
competition. Nor is it a contest.
Its a chance to interact with some of the posters we discuss and
argue with. Its just making music, covers or originals. I just suggested a song that
I wanted to sing. If emotions or ethics or attitudes prevent someone
from jumping in that is a shame but so be it. I dont plan on singing every song. I just suggested the first one cause nobody else spoke up.
I would like to see musical chairs happen here.
The point is this is a chance for some Bandmix veterans to co-mingle
their talents. This could be fun for all.
This first one is just an experiment and with a good outcome will
encourage more. There are many guys here I would like to hear.
I will enjoy sitting back and watching a small group of guys put
a song together and develop it and I will keep my comments to
myself If I am not involved.

Here's a pretty good read on colaborating. Don't think it completely applies to what you guys are doing but it's good info.

http://www.bmi.com/news/entry/551998?ut ... Co-Writing

If originals are done by someone on this I could understand that article.
This is ment to be like musical fellowship in my opinion. At least thats
how I'm treating it. Many people say they dont have a band, many say
they dont have an outlet for their talent. No excuse now.

Those that are about critiqueing others wont like it and those that
put up walls in front of themselves wont either. Its just playing with music.

Covers - Originals - Celtic it doesn't matter. Just play nice.[/b]

I think a step back needs to be taken. The collaboration is not a
competition. Nor is it a contest.
Its a chance to interact with some of the posters we discuss and
argue with. Its just making music, covers or originals. I just suggested a song that
I wanted to sing. If emotions or ethics or attitudes prevent someone
from jumping in that is a shame but so be it. I dont plan on singing every song. I just suggested the first one cause nobody else spoke up.
I would like to see musical chairs happen here.
The point is this is a chance for some Bandmix veterans to co-mingle
their talents. This could be fun for all.
This first one is just an experiment and with a good outcome will
encourage more. There are many guys here I would like to hear.
I will enjoy sitting back and watching a small group of guys put
a song together and develop it and I will keep my comments to
myself If I am not involved.

Its all Good Klugmo... I gave some thought and Here is more specifically why I have opted out:

Right now I have four major projects on my plate at home... I'm brokering the next Sept Event of my Songwriting competition. I am Building an ASP website for it (And the learning curve on the shopping cart is kicking my ass.). I am in the throws of a CD proj where my focus is strictly original material , and I have a day job, with a "go-Live" IT project date at the end of August , and its unbelievably insane right now.

Then add to that, I have to pay out of pocket for any tracks I would contribute, since i'd have to use a studio...
Seeings how there is a cost, and the fact that I am not versed well enough in any cover material (to do justice for you guys), the time and the money in my case is more than I am willing to embrace...(for now) .

SO its not emotion or attitude in my case...its really pragmatics..

ANy hoot I'll rally for you guys and look forward to hearing some great stuff/// In the future , maybe i can jump in...

Good luck to ya...

I don't think there is any right or wrong answer here.

If you get what you need from either the DAW or a producer, it's all good.

I'd rather wrestle with the DAW than have someone stick crap in the music I never felt/don't feel.

If you have a good producer, you are one of the lucky few.