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#172415 by Silverfoot
Tue May 08, 2012 2:41 am
So, I just recieved an e-mail from a high school buddy with whom I used to play music. He's finished a second CD, and has an idea for his third, which has has proposed for me to take part in:

He's having various friends "give him" musical ideas. He's ony looking for rough pieces, and made it clear that anything submitted to him is going to be re-written.

I guess the short version of this is that I'm a little offended. Maybe it would make more sense if you knew the guy-he's always been a kind of cocky "spotlight on me" kind of guy, and really, I shouldn't expect any less from him than some pompous mentality. It just burns me that he is basically asking me (and apparently many others) to write his material for him, of which he will slice and dice to suit his needs.
I feel like he thinks I'm stupid. I'm going to give him ideas for nothing-I'm not even sure he plans to cite anyone else on the credits. On the other hand, anything that I give him is going to be revised through his "professional touch"... :roll:

I've known this guy for years. When is he going to give credit where credit is due? He knows that I write, and have done so for many years. It's insulting to think that his attitude towards my work is so flippant. Had he asked me to submit a completed song (and offered me due credit), I probably wouldn't hesitate. But instead, it came off like "Give me some of your crappy ideas and I'll make them something GOOD.".

I don't know if this makes sense, and I apologize for the rant (I'm getting more angry about it as I go on)...

I've often said that the biggest problem I've experienced in music is credibility. On one side, any Tom Dick and Harry can walk up to you and tell you about the 30 years they spent touring and blah blah blah-and your just supposed to suck down every drop of it without even a hint of documented proof to back up those claims. We deal with it on here all the time, and it's probably the primary reason that our first request to a new forum member is to hear an example of their work.
On the other hand, you can legitimately have that background and never be thought of as anything more than someone's somewhat useful tool. In this case, I'm not really speaking in an online sense. The best example of this is I can give is exactly what I started whining about in the first place. I know this guy. We've played in bands together. He knows that I write, and play bass, and sing, and play guitar, and play some keys, and perform. And yet, he still manages to have that "holier than thou" mentality towards me and my work.
I'll shut up now. :lol: I just thought I'd get a few thoughts on the subject from y'all.

#172417 by Cajundaddy
Tue May 08, 2012 3:39 am
Just tell him: "Hey I got a better idea. I'll use you on my current project to add that special golden touch. It'll be great. Name in lights and the whole thing!"

#172420 by fisherman bob
Tue May 08, 2012 4:51 am
Just the fact that you're on here ranting about this guy tells me you're about ready to tell him to stick it up his ___. I, the honorable fisherman bob, now grant you unequivicable permission to tell him to stick it up his ____. Now, don't you feel better?

#172424 by PaperDog
Tue May 08, 2012 5:10 am

A couple of thoughts:

Tell him You'll do it AND ...say to him, "Heres My Fee..$xxx.00".

When he says that he'll re-write your inputs, its just a snobby way of saying he'll take "work for hire" (WFH).

Under a WFH agreement, he'll typically retain credit and even the copyright. So, If you toss in a respectable guitar solo for him... the appropriate thing to do is to charge him the customary fees, which includes, money up front, royalties (if he agrees to that) and any further remuneration/ residuals that settle and close the agreement.

He;s your friend always, but in this case , you don't (you shouldn't) do music for free... You are a professional artist, who can deliver professional work, and thus demand professional compensation. Your real friends will understand and hang well with it.

One last thing.. He may indeed own the copyrights to the songs you contributed to (which is bought and paid for in that fee you charge him) , but a common professional courtesy would be for him to list you in the credits for your contribution, just the same... Just remind him of that during your negotiations....


#172427 by Slacker G
Tue May 08, 2012 5:36 am
Write some really sh!tty music and tack on some lyrics that would make a fly puke. Then act all excited when you give them to him as if they were the jewels of your song collection. You might even sing one for him way out of pitch all the while having that "I'm really into it" look on your face the whole time. You know.. that jackass "I'm so hot" look those lounge lizards get every time they spot someone looking in their direction.

That"s what folks do to me.

#172430 by t-Roy and The Smoking Section
Tue May 08, 2012 6:20 am
Say, "I thought about it...go jump in a lake"

The guy is an idiot. Stay away from that jerk until he respects you enough to share credit where it's due.

No one with any credibility will work with someone like that unless he's buying everything. Does he have that kind of cash? Hell no, or he would'nt be asking...

Seriously....there is nothing about that situation you want.


#172445 by GuitarMikeB
Tue May 08, 2012 12:43 pm
Slacker's idea has merit, but instead of writing a piece of orignal music, just take an existing (bad) tune and write a bad lyric verse or 2 for it , and give it to him, as an 'original'. Let him get sued for plagarism!

#172449 by Jahva
Tue May 08, 2012 1:08 pm
I don't agree with putting your name on something bad to make a point. It's still your name.

If he is an old friend maybe something can be worked out. But if he uses your music he should know he has to give you credit or face some legal action.
On the flip side of it all... do you like his product?
Does he have anything going worth being a part of?
If he has some product out there is it doing anything?

#172452 by jimmydanger
Tue May 08, 2012 2:16 pm
I would just tell him you're too busy with your own project and get cracking. Nothing wrong with giving/selling some song ideas if he's you friend, if not move on.

#172453 by t-Roy and The Smoking Section
Tue May 08, 2012 2:16 pm
Hey Jahva, I'm in Charlotte for the last couple of days. Wish I could have met you. Is there anything going on in town tonight, like a jam session or open mic that you would visit? I'm open to meet anywhere but I prefer a live music venue. If not, I'll buy the first round at the place of your choice.

Leave me some details and I'll check back in later...

#172456 by KLUGMO
Tue May 08, 2012 2:39 pm
My opinion is that the rewrite part is typical and should be expected.
The vocalist and players that he has may have particular strong points
that he wants to allow for which means rewrite. (lyrics,small portions of music)
To do this you need to contractually connect yourself to whatever you send with a minimum fee. I have sung songs for writers with the
understanding that I had artistic privledge. I may change a couple words here and there
that my vocals are more suitable for. Even musicaly where I feel the music
should go up, down or sustain. They either trust me,I convince them
through demonstration or they say no. Music is fluid at all levels and
when collaberating, egos and stuburness are solids.[/b]

#172494 by Starfish Scott
Tue May 08, 2012 4:55 pm
lol If he says anything to you, I'd just ask him if he was serious because you thought he was just drunk at the time.

#172504 by Silverfoot
Tue May 08, 2012 5:31 pm
Thanks guys! Yeah, I've cooled down a little bit since last night... :lol:

It was just the idea that he wanted me to basically write his songs for him for free, as if his performing my work was some kind of honor for me.

For the record, this isn't my first round with the guy. When he finished his first recording, he contacted me about putting together a band to perform some local shows. When I told him I could supply bass and drums, but no lead guitarist, he acted kind of snotty about it-apparently it had become my job to put together HIS backing band.

In this most recent instance, I responded by telling him it would have to be a sort of quid pro quo deal...if I support his project in some way, he's gonna have to reciprocate. I know him well enough to know that it won't happen...he's not big on sharing the spotlight. More or less it was just to shut him up.

It's really kind of sad though. I grew up with him and at one time we were good friends. I like his material and would like to work with him again-I have even suggested that some of my completed songs would fit his voice well (I didn't even get a response on that one, I guess the songs would have had too much of me in them... :roll: ). Even though this is a musical issue, I have to admit that it stems from a bigger personal issue-that of not being respected.

#172506 by Sir Jamsalot
Tue May 08, 2012 5:36 pm
Slacker G wrote:Write some really sh!tty music and tack on some lyrics that would make a fly puke.

***tty music sells!


#172514 by RumbleStilskin
Tue May 08, 2012 6:01 pm
I write a little myself and sometimes get ideas from friends. However I write most of the lyrics and set them to music using Band in the Box software. If you are providing him a whole song, that is yours even after a few adjustments. Document it and if he makes it big with your stuff....recover your share of any profits. You do not need any agreements that serve to limit your share and you should wish him success. Send him more stuff if you feel the need.

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