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#170365 by JCP61
Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:25 pm
yod wrote:
JCP61 wrote:I know Texans talk big, but talk is cheap



You don't know jack about Texas.



There is a reason why we were an independent nation who decided to join the USA, and there is a reason why we will lead if a revolution becomes necessary.

Once a month, there are about 2,000 people who gather at the State Capitol building in Texas to demand secession. Most Texans don't support that at the moment, but we reserve the right to change our minds.

We have the most diversified economy in this nation. We are leaders in high-technology (the computer chip was invented here), produce more military weaponry and technology plants, control the national strategic reserves and energy, the headquarters of space exploration, and we used to have the highest per-capita rate of millionaires (might still, not sure) so financing isn't a problem. The Texas National Guard is the largest standing military outside of the US military and we have the largest Army base.

We don't want a fight...but if a fight comes we are prepared.

Lilly-livered liberals always "misunderestimate" us. We allow that on purpose.




.


so what are you waiting for, an engraved invitation?
:roll:

#170368 by JCP61
Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:34 pm
PaperDog wrote:you forgot about the part where Texas also has the most beautiful women... and it still takes 3 days to cross from west to east ...not because we don't have cars than can do it 12 hours, (with some of the best built highways in the nation...).\ but because Texas is THAT beautiful, and it compels motorists to take their time on occasion :)


Texas is in fact a very beautiful state,
A lil windy for drag bike but I enjoyed my self never the less.
#170369 by Vampier
Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:42 pm
JCP61 ... read what Slacker G states so well in his last post and really think about it... resisting the urge to deride it by attempting to say something "clever". HUNGER ... Kissinger's statements years ago regarding using food as a weapon. The citizens of the US are not the citizens of Africa. Tell me what you see the role of the UN as ? I am serious in my question and would like to know your thoughts on this. There is much in what you ay whether or not anyone agrees with it but you neagte yourself with other statements ??? Your mention of the Roman Empire and it's collapse has great relevance I agree. Someone once said that the fall of the US will not come from a foreign army but from someone "draped" in an American flag. The US is now under the jurisdiction of the corporate/Banker Despots masquerading behind the UN, the Green Movement and terrorist protection.

Mike Talbot ... what you say pretty much sums it all up I think. Thank you ... along with Yod.

"Buying guns is not the same as forming a militia" ... "meeting in your basement" ...??? very profound JCP61. I feel you miss the entire point that Yod makes. Govt/corporations have bought the 3 major ammo producers in the US. I defy you to find "good money" to bet on Obama. I fear you are one who actually thinks his vote really counts. Slacker G's comment on "uninformed" is astute.

gtZip ... your postings here are very revealing and I obviously misjudged your depth and awareness. Despite not agreeing on many subjects with you I apologize for my mutual exchange of insults on prior posts.

Sirring the pot ... excellent in that it does create dialogue, thought and communication ... mis-spellings included. Cut and thrust, attempted smears, ego speak and insults should however take a back seat when discussing America's Imperial Agenda. "A Duty of Care" and general unity on issues discussed might produce vastly more meaningful results and discussion ... most seem to be attempting this and it is encouraging. Being aware of the hidden censorship will help cushion it's emergence noe at this moment. Almost everything will soon be considered politically dangerous. TA
#170370 by Vampier
Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:58 pm
...JCP61 ...have you ever lived, worked and experienced the people of Texas ? Do not speak of what you do not know ... in your own words "talk is cheap". Texas is a big and beautiful state and like other states like California, it is perfectly capable of being an independent country.

"...an engraved invitation ?" Yet once again a very lame display of self percieved cleverness that actually negates anything of value that you may have said. You embarrass yourself yet again. TA

#170371 by PaperDog
Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:00 pm
JCP61 wrote:
PaperDog wrote:

The formation (and movement) of gangs has become formidable in America and probably irreversible, thanks to the denial of law enforcement to view gangs as anything other than 'criminal'. (I.e. Evidence of this denial can be seen in how the Feds /States battled it out over the treatment of terrorist prisoners).

For years, American gangs have been infiltrated with foreign nationals, who are basically murderers and thieves of the worst kind (and essentially, rejects from their own homeland) ... For example, MS13 , a South American Latino gang, is responsible for copious amounts of gang/civilian murders in the U.S. (Funny how America always has the losers thrown at it...what we call immigration) That gang dominates many of the urban environments, nation wide. Then, we have..Counter-Gang gangs... In the Midwest /east coast, we have some home-grown wicked biker gangs... It aint pretty when those guys get on a spree. They are ruthless toward other gangs...(i.e Turf wars)

The government upholds the criminal/'Gang' definition of its affairs, in order to quell any notion that an organized militia has emerged. But at the end of the day, We are the only nation in the world where its prison system has become the HQ hub of gang operations AKA militia operations.

Our Constitution prevents us from lining them up and killing them on site. However, Enforcers of the constitution dont seem to have any problem fleecing its own good citizens to pay for that Prison system...


I couldn't agree more,
but the question is, can and or will, the citizenry of them selves without the assistance of the state confront these groups with armed force?
doesn't seem to be any evidence of that.


I gave this some thought, and I have come up with two possible routes that ordinary citizens will ultimately be faced with.

1) [b]The Cerebral Method: [/b]Currently , Americans are caught up in a battle of information (aka Info Wars). In this scenario, citizens gravitate toward technologies to leverage and advance their own causes. If a gang member is capable of hacking into my PC, and lifting my ID info... the logical re-course would be to trace his action back to him, and notify authorities with the evidence. However, If I should opt to instead, simply trace back to the perp, and proceed to fry his machine beyond repair... I have essentially won a battle through information/technology (and also have effectively waged an info war on a gang) . Unfortunately , Most Americans are ill- equipped to battle the criminals via an Info war. As with weapons, Our government intercedes and circumvents us from having full knowledge of the Gangs, and for that matter, the technology that safely drives the acquisition of information on gangs.

2) [b]The Brute Force Method[/b]. Bloodshed, plain and simple. Access to weapons is paramount to that... And right now, Criminals have that access... Civilians have it to minor extent , but the bureaucratic steps to obtain weapons is nothing less than another barrier... to access and take re-course against criminals.

Our prison system demonstrates copious amounts of incarceration via Intell collection. Your privacy has been pawned off by the Gov, in exchange for the assurance that a SWAT team can avail itself against any person(s) who are summarily deemed a threat by analysts (Spawned by the wealthy) . Analysts uses Cameras, Sound recordings and eye-witness testimonies to build their cases . This is what a Back-fire of that system looks like... ": A man is taped, walking into a bank lobby. He produces a gun and fires a round and someone off-screen... The tape goes blank and sits there in queue. Meanwhile, Police are called to a bank robbery, which happens to be the same bank this man was taped and seen walking in. The police interview witnesses , process two dead bodies ...( a Security guard and some guy in a ski mask...) Where is the third man on the tape? The police eventually Identify and arrest him... He sits in Jail as a suspect for 72 hours, until an attorney arrives and explains to the police that the man in the tape was a bank Patron, who was defending himself against the guy in the ski-mask. For the next 4 years, that guy will be subject to questioning, deposition under the accusation of murder (2nd Degree) and charged with Weapons Possession felonies as well...
By now, you can see what the real crime is.

The bank Robber was trying to feed his family, the Man on the tape was trying to protect himself, the Security Guard died in the line of duty.
In this scenario, the Governments insistence to be the sole law enforcer, has obviously failed... going back to the guy that was just trying to feed his family, but who was taxed relentlessly, blocked from certain opportunities, and cast out of the ring of wealthy 'good-ole boys' . The security guard Failed to do his job...obviously... Typically guys who work as security guards are not that dedicated. (Albeit they are working for an honest wage) . Alas the security guard is the result of the government's demand for the lowest bidders... Finally, the citizen who protected himself, and is quelled by attornies to not speak of the case... during litigation.

The real crime here, is the assumption that our technology is correct and adequate for Law/judicial process... It is not. Our constitution is getting buried with Technical manual inserts... It will be a harsh awakening when we discover that life does not come with a re-boot button
#170372 by Vampier
Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:18 pm
...PaperDog you say things that are unique but very worthy of note. I never know what you are going to say but am always delighted after thinking about it and digesting your thoughts which are much deeper than most. Thank you.

I never thought I would agree with Glenn but I do and he is consistent and does not back down. I wonder what it is like to have a beer and sit down and actually talk to him ??? It would be interesting and might even be worth it. Ta

#170374 by JCP61
Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:37 pm
PaperDog wrote:
JCP61 wrote:
PaperDog wrote:

The formation (and movement) of gangs has become formidable in America and probably irreversible, thanks to the denial of law enforcement to view gangs as anything other than 'criminal'. (I.e. Evidence of this denial can be seen in how the Feds /States battled it out over the treatment of terrorist prisoners).

For years, American gangs have been infiltrated with foreign nationals, who are basically murderers and thieves of the worst kind (and essentially, rejects from their own homeland) ... For example, MS13 , a South American Latino gang, is responsible for copious amounts of gang/civilian murders in the U.S. (Funny how America always has the losers thrown at it...what we call immigration) That gang dominates many of the urban environments, nation wide. Then, we have..Counter-Gang gangs... In the Midwest /east coast, we have some home-grown wicked biker gangs... It aint pretty when those guys get on a spree. They are ruthless toward other gangs...(i.e Turf wars)

The government upholds the criminal/'Gang' definition of its affairs, in order to quell any notion that an organized militia has emerged. But at the end of the day, We are the only nation in the world where its prison system has become the HQ hub of gang operations AKA militia operations.

Our Constitution prevents us from lining them up and killing them on site. However, Enforcers of the constitution dont seem to have any problem fleecing its own good citizens to pay for that Prison system...


I couldn't agree more,
but the question is, can and or will, the citizenry of them selves without the assistance of the state confront these groups with armed force?
doesn't seem to be any evidence of that.


I gave this some thought, and I have come up with two possible routes that ordinary citizens will ultimately be faced with.

1) [b]The Cerebral Method: [/b]Currently , Americans are caught up in a battle of information (aka Info Wars). In this scenario, citizens gravitate toward technologies to leverage and advance their own causes. If a gang member is capable of hacking into my PC, and lifting my ID info... the logical re-course would be to trace his action back to him, and notify authorities with the evidence. However, If I should opt to instead, simply trace back to the perp, and proceed to fry his machine beyond repair... I have essentially won a battle through information/technology (and also have effectively waged an info war on a gang) . Unfortunately , Most Americans are ill- equipped to battle the criminals via an Info war. As with weapons, Our government intercedes and circumvents us from having full knowledge of the Gangs, and for that matter, the technology that safely drives the acquisition of information on gangs.

2) [b]The Brute Force Method[/b]. Bloodshed, plain and simple. Access to weapons is paramount to that... And right now, Criminals have that access... Civilians have it to minor extent , but the bureaucratic steps to obtain weapons is nothing less than another barrier... to access and take re-course against criminals.

Our prison system demonstrates copious amounts of incarceration via Intell collection. Your privacy has been pawned off by the Gov, in exchange for the assurance that a SWAT team can avail itself against any person(s) who are summarily deemed a threat by analysts (Spawned by the wealthy) . Analysts uses Cameras, Sound recordings and eye-witness testimonies to build their cases . This is what a Back-fire of that system looks like... ": A man is taped, walking into a bank lobby. He produces a gun and fires a round and someone off-screen... The tape goes blank and sits there in queue. Meanwhile, Police are called to a bank robbery, which happens to be the same bank this man was taped and seen walking in. The police interview witnesses , process two dead bodies ...( a Security guard and some guy in a ski mask...) Where is the third man on the tape? The police eventually Identify and arrest him... He sits in Jail as a suspect for 72 hours, until an attorney arrives and explains to the police that the man in the tape was a bank Patron, who was defending himself against the guy in the ski-mask. For the next 4 years, that guy will be subject to questioning, deposition under the accusation of murder (2nd Degree) and charged with Weapons Possession felonies as well...
By now, you can see what the real crime is.

The bank Robber was trying to feed his family, the Man on the tape was trying to protect himself, the Security Guard died in the line of duty.
In this scenario, the Governments insistence to be the sole law enforcer, has obviously failed... going back to the guy that was just trying to feed his family, but who was taxed relentlessly, blocked from certain opportunities, and cast out of the ring of wealthy 'good-ole boys' . The security guard Failed to do his job...obviously... Typically guys who work as security guards are not that dedicated. (Albeit they are working for an honest wage) . Alas the security guard is the result of the government's demand for the lowest bidders... Finally, the citizen who protected himself, and is quelled by attornies to not speak of the case... during litigation.

The real crime here, is the assumption that our technology is correct and adequate for Law/judicial process... It is not. Our constitution is getting buried with Technical manual inserts... It will be a harsh awakening when we discover that life does not come with a re-boot button


you have a valid point, on the bank scenario
and as the supreme court upheld the 2nd amendment even in the District of Columbia, citizens will have the opportunity to defend life and property against criminals.
their due process after the fact will of course be good or bad depending on the officials handling it form then out.
this has always been true though, in some cases it is better than the past, in some cases worse.
but at no time has it been perfect.

I can not speak intelligently to the computer hacker case though , because I can not say wither acting on your own is legal or verifiable.
I would have to know my response was verifiable. at least

#170376 by JCP61
Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:48 pm
yod wrote:
JCP61 wrote:I know Texans talk big, but talk is cheap



You don't know jack about Texas.



There is a reason why we were an independent nation who decided to join the USA, and there is a reason why we will lead if a revolution becomes necessary.

Once a month, there are about 2,000 people who gather at the State Capitol building in Texas to demand secession. Most Texans don't support that at the moment, but we reserve the right to change our minds.

We have the most diversified economy in this nation. We are leaders in high-technology (the computer chip was invented here), produce more military weaponry and technology plants, control the national strategic reserves and energy, the headquarters of space exploration, and we used to have the highest per-capita rate of millionaires (might still, not sure) so financing isn't a problem. The Texas National Guard is the largest standing military outside of the US military and we have the largest Army base.

We don't want a fight...but if a fight comes we are prepared.

Lilly-livered liberals always "misunderestimate" us. We allow that on purpose.




.


with what?
those military bases? they belong to us as in "U.S." and we will certainly take them back.
those oil refineries and industrial centers? they are private property and will certainly request and receive protection from the US government.

it's not the meek the earth inherit it's the dirt.
and that's all you own, if even that.
the rest of that stuff belongs to the American people not you.
we didn't have any trouble taking back the 1st time and we won't have any trouble taking back again.
so if you feel frogy
leap!
#170378 by JCP61
Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:59 pm
Vampier wrote:...JCP61 ...have you ever lived, worked and experienced the people of Texas ? Do not speak of what you do not know ... in your own words "talk is cheap". Texas is a big and beautiful state and like other states like California, it is perfectly capable of being an independent country.

"...an engraved invitation ?" Yet once again a very lame display of self percieved cleverness that actually negates anything of value that you may have said. You embarrass yourself yet again. TA


bla bla bla
bet you filed you income taxes though didn't ya?

#170379 by JCP61
Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:21 pm
although you have my deepest sympathy that your state contains a lil less than 1/2 liberals by population.
becuase I am not a liberal by any means.
just an American.

but.... from wiki...
McCain did well throughout the state, winning the vast majority of counties by double digits. He took practically every county in Eastern Texas - large regions of which once voted Democratic. All the suburbs of the major cities voted Republican by large margins. He also dominated the Texas Panhandle (including Amarillo) and the South Plains (including Lubbock), two of the most conservative regions in the country, winning both by margins of three-to-one--his largest margin of victory in the entire country. [23] This area includes King County which gave McCain 92.64% of the vote to Obama's 4.91%--McCain's biggest margin in any county in the nation.

Obama, however, did win major urban counties such as Dallas, Bexar and Harris counties which contains the state's three major metropolitan areas of Dallas, San Antonio, and Houston respectively, the first time a Democratic presidential nominee has carried all three of them since Lyndon B. Johnson in 1964.[24] Liberal white voters in Dallas combined with the heavy turnout of African Americans in Houston, and Hispanic population in San Antonio helped give Obama the edge and carry these three counties. Obama also performed strongly in Travis County, which contains the state capital of Austin, and when paired with San Antonio creates the most liberal area in Texas and therefore most reliably Democratic counties in Texas. Obama also carried El Paso County, which contains the city of El Paso, due in large part to heavy support by Hispanics. Obama also carried many of the Latino-majority counties in the Rio Grande Valley along the border with Mexico, which have strongly supported Democrats for decades.

by the numbers

Nominee John McCain 4,479,328 Barack Obama 3,528,633
Party Republican 55.4% Democratic 43.6%



guess you boys got some clean'n up to do before you leave the union.

can I interest you in some well built large capacity ovens?
#170380 by PaperDog
Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:43 pm
Vampier wrote:...PaperDog you say things that are unique but very worthy of note. I never know what you are going to say but am always delighted after thinking about it and digesting your thoughts which are much deeper than most. Thank you.

I never thought I would agree with Glenn but I do and he is consistent and does not back down. I wonder what it is like to have a beer and sit down and actually talk to him ??? It would be interesting and might even be worth it. Ta


Thanks for the kind words Vampier, JC...


My take on the 2nd amendment is somewhat like this: The amendment is less about the device (i.e Weapons/arms) and their rightful possession...Rather, more about right and duty to uphold constitutional law. The 2nd Amendment seeks to define the appropriate balance of rights and duties between Govt and Citizen: In this amendment the assumption of devices (Weapons/arms ) inaturally implies these are the tools in use for the enforcement of freedoms. Also there is a difference between "protect", " enforce" , and "uphold"

Consider the basic facts:

1) The Govt has the constitutional right (and duty) to arm its own militia...and a duty to protect and uphold the rights of the citizens.

2) The 2nd Amendment does not protect Govt acts of tyranny or other violations of the constitutional rights, Nor does it protect against Citizens' acts of insurgency against the Govt.

3) The Govt Has No constitutional right to impose tyranny on its citizens, and Citizens have no constitutional right to impose insurgency on the govt.


The purpose of the 2nd Amendment (I believe) was to mutually ensure balance between forces. Therefore, if a Govt goes and decides to start some tyranny, , Citizens are constitutionally afforded equal and proportionate right to protect themselves against such acts of the govt. It so happens, bearing arms is currently the most effective gesture to uphold American freedoms (internally and otherwise)
BUT, If this amendment was strictly about a 'right to bear arms', (and not about constitutional duty) then it would have spelled out the rules of leverage: i.e Why does the govt get to use tanks and missiles and we're not allowed to/...etc)

#170383 by JCP61
Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:27 pm
PD
these things you cite we must admit are theory of freedom and liberty.
in the natural order of things they may indeed be true.
But...

As far as the US criminal code is concerned I quote;

18 USC Chapter 115 - TREASON, SEDITION, AND SUBVERSIVE ACTIVITIES;

A) Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.


B) Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

C)Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or
Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or
Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof?
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
As used in this section, the terms ?organizes? and ?organize?, with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.

We may be outraged by our government, and we may address it in word most caustic.
but by all means our recourse is though the legal system and no other
or be a traitor.

Your gun is for your protection and that of your fellow citizen, and for the use of your state is so called.

#170385 by PaperDog
Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:49 pm
JCP61 wrote:PD
these things you cite we must admit are theory of freedom and liberty.
in the natural order of things they may indeed be true.
But...

As far as the US criminal code is concerned I quote;

18 USC Chapter 115 - TREASON, SEDITION, AND SUBVERSIVE ACTIVITIES;

A) Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.


B) Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

C)Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or
Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or
Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof?
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction.
As used in this section, the terms ?organizes? and ?organize?, with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.

We may be outraged by our government, and we may address it in word most caustic.
but by all means our recourse is though the legal system and no other
or be a traitor.

Your gun is for your protection and that of your fellow citizen, and for the use of your state is so called.


I Think We are saying the same thing here... My listed items 2, 3 correspond with your Items A, B , C.

I AM embellishing on the principle (as to why the 2nd Amendment comes about) .
I imagine when they wrote that amendment, the prevailing question was... "how much power does the government exercise over its people....and to what extent does the government have the right to insist that the people leave themselves arbitrarily vulnerable to the whims of such a power.

My Right to bear Arms, does not include any right for me to raise my weapons against my government... But, in fact, my right to bear arms does afford me the assurance by my government that I have the right to disarm, disable and circumvent any enemy that imposes unconstitutional aggression against me, Such enemies may include, but are not limited to... my own government, and or criminals, if and when they should 'go rogue' and act against my constitutional freedom and rights to safety and welfare.

Also note that not all criminals or rogue governments act covertly. Since constitutionality drives the boundaries of each entities' rights, we can see numerous attempts by criminals and rogue governments to covertly slip in changes to the constitution, to effectively legalize what we now consider to be abuses against our prevailing rights. When enough of that begins to reveal itself openly, we should understand that blood-shed of vast proportions becomes eminent.

#170394 by JCP61
Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:35 pm
PaperDog wrote:

Also note that not all criminals or rogue governments act covertly. Since constitutionality drives the boundaries of each entities' rights, we can see numerous attempts by criminals and rogue governments to covertly slip in changes to the constitution, to effectively legalize what we now consider to be abuses against our prevailing rights. When enough of that begins to reveal itself openly, we should understand that blood-shed of vast proportions becomes eminent.


With this I also agree more than I could possibly say, and could not have said it better.
but what to do about it?
one thing has always been true of our national government; good, bad or indifferent;
If you attack it by force it becomes stronger.
#170397 by Vampier
Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:10 am
JCP61 ...Blah Blah Blah ....I love Iggy Pop and that album was pretty good. Cry For Love was excellent in my opinion. I do not pay income tax and have not filed either. Living out of the country has it's advantages and a different perspective not being inundated with the corporate whore media. When are you going to comment upon the UN ?? or do you bother to actually read responding posts ?

PaperDog, your posts are getting better and better if that is possible...JCP61, you also bring forth some excellent points of view and a very odd and different perspective at times.

Nevertheless I think that the conversation is very good and extensive and I for one like it very much. Thank you.

It has always seemed to me that quoting laws that were "passed" long after the original Constitution is often a bit dicey. I believe it is always best to return to the source when possible but more to the point...recent so-called laws including the ridiculous "Executive Orders" and the corrupt rulings of the "Supreme Council" or "Supreme Court" or the "Supreme Treaties" are mockeries and devices to get around "due course" and impose blatant violations of the Constitution, it's original intent and the denial of basic US citizens rights. How can a so-called President be tolerated when he is not even elgible and/or unable to prove so ? The flagrant violations of the most basic laws of the land are unbelievable and the lying and theft that goes on in the ridiculous and futile game of political monopoly is both inhuman and evil.

I firmly believe that the average citizens who still have critical thought and proper hormones are about to be pushed to the limit and when this happens the dying government will try even more drastic measures to maintain control and there will be mass exterminations/sacrifices and much bloodshed as the sleeping and admitedly slow to awaken US citizens anger and are moved to action ... this will include many police and military and even some of the less depraved politicos, who with the general and "motivated" populations will hunt down those responsible and their families. It will be long and brutal and it is dubious if life on the planet will survive I am afraid. These are only my thoughts and not at all my wishes. Ta

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