General Music Chat

I never had a problem like that. I always listened very carefully to the singers interpretation of a song and tailored my chops around their singing style. And I never tried to play above the other musicians. But I never had to work with incompetent musicians. I was fortunate that way, I guess.

Compromise
Last year I met with at least 15 different musicians none of them could group think. What I mean by that is start fresh material.

It's always one guys ideas and they want you to shadow them .......... boring.

Never be afraid to eat a taco from the middle out.

I have to agree with what AmericaUnitedRecords said (dude, you need a shorter name...lol). I think the contract is a great idea. However, in my experience, when I've mentioned contract to musicians, they run like a bunch of rabbits after a shotgun blast.

The most amazing (and frustrating) thing about music, in my opinion, is dealing with the individual personalities. Don't get me wrong, I believe in artistic statement, as well as everyone having free will and their own thoughts and ideas and quirks (I'm trying to say that I'm not a fascist and I don't strive for mind control over my fellow musicians... ).

But really, why is it so difficult to get a small group of people to work toward a common goal?

I have learned, at the inset of a new band, to line out the goals and reach an agreement on how to approach any and every situation. Before a single note is played, we say:

"We are at point A. We want to get to point B. This is how we are going to do it."

Seems like a pretty solid recipe to me. And yet, time after time, the plan is thrown off track and ultimately the project fails...all due to the fact that someone's ego is not getting properly stroked.

Being in a band maybe indeed be an issue of getting along...BUT being successful had NOTHING to do with getting along.

I've said it many times, and I believe it wholeheartedly...I could have a successful career in music right now if it weren't for having to rely on other people. I know I sound arrogant and bitter, but I really don't care. I think that everyone here has a pretty good idea to some extent how the music business works...The industry doesn't care if you and your bandmates are buddies. The industry doesn't care if you are getting equal input. The ONLY thing that the industry cares about is whether or not you can produce material that is going to make them money.
I'm sure that someone will respond to this, telling me I'm wrong, and that "being friends" with your bandmates is more important than anything. Fine. You can defend that point to the death-from your garage or basement or wherever you and your pals "jam". You sure won't be defending it from a major venue anytime soon.
There is a fine line between making everyone happy and reaching your goals. In any situation that arises, someone has to be objective, and (quoting Star Trek now... ). "The needs of many outweigh the needs of one".

For example: I have a situation right now where I have two guys basically doing the same thing. I don't need two guys doing the same thing. They both sing and play (rythym) guitar. I have one rythym guitar slot. One guy is obviously more qualified for that position. The other guy has other talents, such as playing the keys (he's not great, but he can carry his own). There are a couple of other reasons, such as material input that makes this decision pretty easy...except...
The second guy doesn't want to play keys. He wants to sing and strum a guitar. So rather than filling out the sound with a variety of instruments-one of our afforementioned goals, were going to have guitar overkill, just as long as guy #2 is happy.

OR, I could handle it like I have some business sense (and I do have a little), and tell guy #2 what we need him to do. If he doesn't like it, he doesn't have to come back. In the end, I'll either have a keyboard player or I'll be rid of an extra person that wasn't helping us reach our goals.

Does that sound cold hearted to you? It damn well should. I'm serious about what I do, and I'm not going to be held back by someone's selfishness.

I know that someone is probably gonna tell me that I make it sound like it's all about me and I'm the one being selfish. Simply not true. I'm about the band. I'm about reaching goals. However, as unfortunate as it may be, sometimes reaching those goals means that everyone doesn't always get what they want-including ME.

Sorry, band issues eating at me too...

We speak bluntly and honestly together and we pray together.

I spent about three years tyring to hold together what was left of the original band I'd started out with. We'd gone from semi-acoustic to hard rock but would grab any job we could so we also did covers and even country from time to time - learned a whole Hank Williams album one night.

We played in the south - mostly FL and GA.

It was me and my brother at the center of it. Others came and went and some of the line ups were great and some not - we had to have two drummers for a while to get the extra vocals from drummer #2. Plus, sad to say, it took both of them to do the drums.

We learned to be fanatics - we'd grab whoever we needed and chase gigs - sometimes before we'd all done the playlist together...If someone couldn't keep up we'd cushion them until we found somebody better. Sounds cold yet admittedly, we sometimes got sentimental to our own detriment.

I was the band leader and principle composer and bassman. My brother played lead. He was also the guy who fired people. Had a knack.
Although once a chick singer we had walked up to me in a bar after a gig and said, "Talbot - do I have the authority to fire Tim (the drummer)?"

I told her, 'hell yeah!' and fired he was. We moved in with a new drummer the next night. We traveled light. It was a long three years.

Band dynamics? Partly situational - not many of us base our income on the music any more. The makes for a different dynamic totally. You try to establiish and maintain relationships with other players and move toward common goals. You think long term.

It can always go wrong for some reason. But I think George is right - if you can pray together that can be a good thing. Rare though.

Today I reheased for my gig at church - backing up the kids choir with a piano, guitar, percussion, violin and me on bass. Being an ad hoc church ensemble We can pray together readily - the pastor is playing guitar.

But I'm working on a heavy metal project in another space and we're not there yet.

Talbot

Judo

One thing I have learned about music and LIFE is that I can NOT expect people to act a certain way or be perfect because I am NOT! One thing I know is when we are playing our music nothing else seems to matter!

I am going to post a real fun story tomorrow. This is not going to be to steal the thread but just to illiterate the sh*t that can happen.
maybe I should just do it now.
sorry, tired and its late........
You get that one ego that screws up everything.

Ok I'm awake. We had a jamm last night. I always took the stand that I was just playing to have fun.
I'm not going to put it off, I laugh and joke with all the folk until you bullshit me.
Three months ago my buddies brought in this guy Nick, to play acoustic guitar. I kept my mouth shut. The guy has a really good voice. What harm could come from that?
Any way the next thing I know is Nick is getting a booking agency involved to play in a little NYC bar called the TAVERN on Bleeker St. Google it. Its a little tunnel bar with a 2 by 4 stage. The reviews on the place are really SAD. They need a booking agency just to get bands to play there.LOL.

Last night I challenged them to put together a THREE SONG SET. Holy sh*t, and thats when it hit the fan. sh*t flying everywhere. AND YOU GUYS WANT TO GO PLAY IN SOME LITTLE HOLE IN THE WALL BAR IN NYC.

Anyway this all stems from this guy Nick that thinks he larger than life.

How do you deal with band mates that feel they are that important,,,,,
YOU CAN EM,,, Life is to short.
Even my wife said" lot of testosterone going on last night" my answer...
YUP!

How to deal with band members:


Pay them. If they don't do what you want, fire them.

I love that plan, Yod...except for the fact that I don't have the money to pay ANYONE. I did try it once, though. I paid a drummer an hourly wage-just to show up for practice. He, in turn, intentionally screwed up songs that he didn't personally like, and when asked about the next practice date, he refused to give us a straight answer about whether he could make it or not. You better believe, though, he always managed to have his hand out at the end of practice. And yes, we did fire him. My point is that even money isn't enough of a motivation for some people.

Glen, There is ALWAYS going to be one in the band! If you are going to play with PEOPLE I am sorry to say we have to learn to deal with it! In the band I am in there is one. I just talk to them! Every since I told him to phuk off his attitude has changed to the point I can actually tolerate him. folks are not always going to act the way you want them to. As a band if you are ever going to settle down and quit searching for the "perfect bandmate's" that act the way YOU want them to YOU are going to have to compromise and so will they! If one or the other is NOT willing to compromise it will never work. To me a band is like a family and when there are problems between the members it takes FORGIVENESS and COMPROMISE! Just my 2 cents!

Glen, I'm thinking the guy was/is a typical prima-donna... The world is full of them.. Its just like people who come into wealth...Never had it before , and act silly and stupid over it...

At the end of the day, it would seem to me that a 'band' is another word for 'team'. All teams got rules they run by...Hell, even Gangs have some modicum of cohesive discipline... The point being, team mates, band members, or whatever we wanna call em...they should all understand and comply with a frame work of open communication... So lets say you pump out an idea... Regardless of whether its brilliant or stupid...there should be a civil discussion about it and it should be acted o, or or put to rest by some mutual agreement of conditions or rules... Most important, nobody should be so caught up in his or her own exhaust to the point that they try to differentiate themselves from the rest of the team, on matters open for discussion. Teams ultimately should strive to do whats best for the "team" ...IMHO

The funny thing about our take on Hollywood...is we get all those ideas from watching too many movies...

I love that plan, Yod...except for the fact that I don't have the money to pay ANYONE. I did try it once, though. I paid a drummer an hourly wage-just to show up for practice. He, in turn, intentionally screwed up songs that he didn't personally like, and when asked about the next practice date, he refused to give us a straight answer about whether he could make it or not. You better believe, though, he always managed to have his hand out at the end of practice. And yes, we did fire him. My point is that even money isn't enough of a motivation for some people.

Line up some paying gigs and tell the band they have to commit to multiple full-band rehearsals (make it a reasonable but low number).

If you have steady work, musicians aren't hard to find or keep.