General Music Chat

Wow. Nice unbiased crtitique, Lynard. People in glass houses shouldn't heave massive boulders. That kind of unconstructive criticism comes as an invite-I'm assuming that you believe yourself to set the bar. Trust me, I listened to your stuff-and critiqued it. You are not in any position tell someone else that their work sucks.

Let him talk.

I never worry too much about what others think, creatively speaking.

On a technical level, I hear it all. As in I hear every comment, right or wrong, black or white, up or down, left or right.

Then I try to behave as if the comment had validity, so I can tweak it on way or another.

Believe me, if everything was done MY way it wouldn't necessarily be a better product, probably just worse.

No, people that have negative to say are just as worthy as those who do not.
I like tech stuff better and subjective comments are just that, subjective.

As in "everyone likes something different".

I set out to cause trouble, enough to have my ass ripped but good and I didn't get even 1/8th of what I thought I would.

To me that's a win/win situation and I am surprised.

My other buddy who really is kind of a dick, told me that it was the best we pumped out yet, albeit it has it problems and probably s/b completely rerecorded. He also said "it gives the studio something to do".

That line makes me happy and sad all at the same time but I like the idea of it all. He doesn't like anything and the mere fact I pierced his shell tells me we are going in the right direction.

If Lynard is getting angry because of this tune, it further validates the idea that this was something special and has intrinsic value ESPECIALLY TO PEOPLE WHO HEAR WHAT I DO. (come on in folks, the water is warm) lol

Like what you will, people, it's a big wide world and there is plenty to choose from. You don't have to drink from the same glass I use, there are other choices and you are free to pursue whatever you truly enjoy.

Lynard, I will send you a petrified Xmas fruitcake just to be a weenie. lol

And regardless of what others say, you are free to come and bash my material any day. I don't mind at all because at least you say what you really think.

That part is worth more than all the positive comments in the world.
Do what you do but be honest and never "fluff or puff" anything you really don't like.

Chief, when you say, "rotary speaker" does that mean a Leslie spkr?. sounds like a Leslie but just want to be sure I'm not talking out of line..

It's a rotary speaker effect but yes, if I did this tune anywhere I'd be trying to locate a Leslie or a fender vibratone to do this justice.

And you never have to worry about talking out of line, just regular people here. We answer any and all questions we can.

Shoot from the hip.

Who are you (and what have you done with...)?

Naw, good one on you, Scott. Very professional. I'll try to contain my bear-poking ( it will be difficult, but...).

Do what you do, but I sense a wound. (Joesph6)

I'll always tease someone or something until I think it's a real wound.

Then I am over and done because nothing about this is serious enough to do anyone any real harm or make anyone truly upset.

I've been hostile for a long time in general. I owe it to the world to try to be kinder, gentler version of myself.

Sometimes I think I know everything there is to know about whatever subject is at hand. And then I realize that I will really never know that much in general about the important things in life, I only know what I feel.

The match only burns for a limited amount of time before it goes out.
I am student of life and not even a good one. I am content to let the match burn my finger for a sec to avoid burning down something or someone. I feel the burn and let's me know I am alive. The burn itself is temporary, this too will pass.

Choose your battles, do not let them choose you.

Capt, when I heard the lyrics come in it reminds me of Donavan for some reason.

I like the rotary guitar sound thats cool. It doesnt sound overplayed to me at all, it sounds quite tasteful in a David Gilmour sort of way.

Vocals, have you ever tryed double tracking them and maybe singing them in flasetto an octave up? Ive done this a few times, if you listen to Cyber Outlaw on my player I do this and really thicken up the vocals. Or maybe use a harmony vocal app and build up the vocals here and there. Just some thoughts.

Also, on the spoken part, I dont know if you guys have the app, but you might put that megaphone effect in it, and listen to it, or maybe one line clean vocal and then megaphone effect.

Honestly for me I would love to hear the vocals climax in some way, or build up to something, it kinda stays flat, nothing wrong with that if that is your intent.

I like it, would go good kicking back on a rainy day smoking a doob, if I did that.

You have come a long ways from some of the first stuff I heard that you posted, keep on mining this area, it suits you, and has a great vibe to it!

Good Job

Is that an anti-fishing song?

The bedrock of that sea needs to be steady and natural - organic percusion. You might want to experiment with a few different rythms.

What is on top of that bedrock is as it should be already - watery.

I listened to this thing 4 times in a row. Not because of some emotional tug, but because of a mental tug.
"Whats going on here?"

I thought, Pink Floyd meets Marcy Playground.
If you don't know who Marcy Playground is, youtube search: Marcy Playground sex and candy.

I think you have something with that hybrid, and Alt Rock is going to be your target demographic. Or, it should be with what you guys are doing.
In my 'opinion'.

The solo was adequate. It's the right effect for sure.
(If you want some missle fire, you can pretend that I said, "Is that all you got?")


The vocals are a work in progress but the tone and 'style' are there.

I cant bash it too much. I set out to give you a good lashing but its just so stylistic, that I can't.

I willl say... that the right balance between organic and synthetic might be the eureka spot for you guys.
It might not happen, but keep experimenting.

Anti-fishing? No, we (I) just needed something to cry about, literally.

When we were piecing it together, it didn't cry to me - it wailed in pain.
It's the only thing I felt on this level before.

This is what i consider a quality review, it tells me personal/subjective take on the piece and it mentions technical aspects as well.

No one is ever 100% but this forum provides insights I don't get anywhere else. It just can be hard to prompt them.

Thanks GT Zip, you surprise me over and over and over again.

Capt, when I heard the lyrics come in it reminds me of Donavan for some reason.

I like the rotary guitar sound thats cool. It doesnt sound overplayed to me at all, it sounds quite tasteful in a David Gilmour sort of way.

Vocals, have you ever tryed double tracking them and maybe singing them in flasetto an octave up? Ive done this a few times, if you listen to Cyber Outlaw on my player I do this and really thicken up the vocals. Or maybe use a harmony vocal app and build up the vocals here and there. Just some thoughts.

Also, on the spoken part, I dont know if you guys have the app, but you might put that megaphone effect in it, and listen to it, or maybe one line clean vocal and then megaphone effect.

Honestly for me I would love to hear the vocals climax in some way, or build up to something, it kinda stays flat, nothing wrong with that if that is your intent.

I like it, would go good kicking back on a rainy day smoking a doob, if I did that.

You have come a long ways from some of the first stuff I heard that you posted, keep on mining this area, it suits you, and has a great vibe to it!

Good Job

Thanks JW, same ole steady as a rock.

It must be nice to be as stable and "head in the game" as you always seem to be. Then again I am guessing that's why you are as far along the path as you are. People that are inconsistent are not generally successful, especially given some time to "self-destruct".

You seem to be the same guy M-Sun, 24-7, 365.

I don't have a falsetto than i know of.. lol My voice is like a stock car engine, don't push it too hard and it won't go boom.

The Megaphone..that's an outstanding idea.. thank you again..

Yeah the vocals are flat intentionally. This tune wants you to cry for it.
I know I did. I don't know why or how, I just like that it does.

We maybe mining, but I don't think anyone knows what we are actually mining for.. especially myself. I am just happy if we find anything worthwhile.

Capt if you have time in the studio, you might pull up some vocal harmonizers and play with a 3rd, 5th or octave, Im not saying do that, but it could fill it out in a few places here and there, maybe pan an octave hard right and left and then back it up in the mix, so its not dominate, but its there enough for the ear to hear it, but not really know what it is.

Ussually on my vocals in my bassist studio I do the Halen guitar trick.

We pan a straight vocal a little left and then about the same distance right put a 10-20 ms delay on it. For chorus's I try to layer a couple of tracks, in one octave and then up one when I can reach it.

For your type of music, when you get a an open spot between vocals you might be able to put a little delay tag with a touch of reverb to stretch the phrasing out. Ive got a song on here called Save the Last Dance, and Im not trying to get you to listen other than to listen to the little breaks between verses and chorus's we added some little tails to the vocal effects that help fill it out a little bit.

Like i said I would like to hear something to brighten up the vocals, but thats just me, its your music man, do what you want and envision and dont be swayed.

I'm not qualified to be a critic so I don't. I have certain things I like, I stumble on them, say whats on my mind. If it's something nice to say.

After giving it a few listens... I gotta say... I love the song.. The production needs polish (Vocal levels, etc) ..

Sorry to not rip you an asshole about it... I know what I like.. I have always liked your work, regardless... I do not qualify, to give you any deeper comment, without being solicited specifically about various elements in the song. Ask the right questions, and I'd be inclined to give you feedback accordingly...

In the mean time, I wouldn't worry if the song was danceable or not... I mean, when the source of such a criteria can barely stand straight and sober in a room of silence, its rather a moot point anyhow , i would think... LOL!

Scotty, check it out.

Another thread got me watching this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8qXaIjE ... ure=relmfu


He makes similar kinds of statements about 'knowing' and emotion, with one of the hit songs he has written, that you have been trying to talk about.

You may hate Styx, but this little talk is interesting

That's a good one, too, Zip. I actually watched that one before I posted the other one.

Scotty, check it out.

Another thread got me watching this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8qXaIjE ... ure=relmfu


He makes similar kinds of statements about 'knowing' and emotion, with one of the hit songs he has written, that you have been trying to talk about.

You may hate Styx, but this little talk is interesting

Wow that was weird to hear him talk as confidently as he did.

I don't even know how people get that confident in this unpredictable area of art/business/chaos.

Performance is one thing, writing good material is a whole different colored animal..sometimes a horse, other times an alligator.

The trick is not to let it get into your head and screw with you so bad that you can't finish what you started.

Yeah but Scott that?s a person with many successes under their belt. At some point I?m sure a person has no choice but to believe thousands of fans might be onto something. I think the main point is the contrast, to know which is relatively better than the rest. It would be really hard for me to dismiss Styx as anything less than stellar. I grew up with that sound. NIN = Nine Inch Nails.

Thank you to everyone for taking their time to comment. Even with the negative, it's appreciated that you took the time to listen. Certainly it?s not a cup of tea fitting for everyone and I have no problems with that. Much could be improved with this, but I was eager to move on. It?s only our fifth attempt and I?m maybe hurrying to what it develops into.

So I?m now second guessing that thought. gtZip yeah Marcy Playground, ?Sex n Candy? hadn?t even thought of that correlation and it?s really close too. This is why I don?t actually listen to too much music, before you know it, you?re headed for a clear target. But really a few nudges and it could easily steer that way. The question is, should it? We are both so dead set against being like everybody else, but that objective may just leave crickets and echoes as our audience.

Do we write to simply deliver a hook? Can you just have something that sounds nice, without that artificial intention? I really don?t know, I?m content with simple musical expression. To me, trying to ?get? someone to listen taints the context. How can it not, if that? the main objective and not the expression itself? Clearly it has points that can be made better, so if we continue it, that would be the objective. Who knows, maybe that quality of wanting the other shoe to drop, has an charm of it?s own? I guess we?ll find out. There will be a time when we are set on commercial appeal, but right now we are still just gelling and getting it all together. We might as well take some enjoyment, along the way. After all it?s a fun tune to play. If it comes off as just sounding nice, it may not be a conquest, but still a win. Every album needs a song five and side ?B?.

The thing is I sincerely believe we get better as we go and this is standing between where we are now and getting on with that journey. If we get too far away and this screams at us, we can always come back. Though with better skills and experience picked up along the way. Damn and I know a lot could be done better lyrically. I just got done telling Scott I was disappointed that we didn?t mention Davy Jones? locker. How could you have a song about a disaster at sea and not mention that? It?s nautical blasphemy!

Next session we?ll discuss it and see what?s best for both of us. Do we stay here and hammer this into something shiny? Although I?m ecstatic that new territory, has so much promise over the same old ground. It?s really hard to fight the urge to want to be there now. I hear some of the stuff you guys are doing and I want to be doing that too. It all hinges upon having the material to do it with, quality versus quantity. Once we get to that point to be performing, how much more are we going to learn as we go? I don?t hesitate to guess at quite a bit.