General Music Chat

We have different words for different ideas. An atheist "knows" there is no God; the religious person "knows" that there is. An agnostic acknowledges that we know nothing, but also realizes we have the capacity to know.

I've always loved that line!~
"Although all of the suffering religion has brought us over the centuries"

where did anyone come up with these ideas?
can you tell me some other form of human striving that doesn't have suffering part of the picture.
what about the advances in science?
before modern science we didn't have nuclear fallout,
we didn't PCB's and DDT and associated mutations.
pharmaceutical companies.....mmmmmmmm there is a sport for you.
there is plenty of evidence that free speech caused a few wars of it's own.


is there a liberal on the planet that doesn't live in a cartoon world?

My believe carries a hell of a lot more fact than yours sir. Hmmm lets see there were nine Crusades, was it? Spanish Inquisition, imperial colonization, lets not forget the deaths of six million Jews, the Bosian Muslims, Darfur, India/Pakistan, Egypt/Israel, Islamic terrorists (maybe they just do it for the money?). How many wives did Henry V behead? You think after the first two or so, they would have told him: ?Nah man we were just screwing with you, you can get a divorce.? No really I see your point, all just make believe. Even Alexander the Great was just fulfilling his God given destiny and Hitler his version through ?German Providence?, Hirohito was a god to the Japanese. So I guess I can?t blame his followers, since it?s easier in that case to go right to the source. Yeah sure religion is really beneficial for mankind, if you manufacture weapons.

Hey it?s of absolutely no use having cool shiny new tools for murder, without an excuse to use them. Guns don?t commit atrocities, religions wielding them do. Before modern science, your life expectancy was forty years. We know how that worked out, so how about we give the ?We don?t know what God wants? a try for a few centuries? Perhaps Allah, Buddha, Jehovah and Jesus could play some poker instead? Just give Buddha the real sturdy chair.

Enjoy your faith, while I too shall enjoy the freedom to believe what I want. You?ll be shackled to the Bible and I to science. Science changes with the times, the Bible? What do you do if they find life on another world? If we create life in a laboratory, are we then Gods? We could smite the earth of every living thing without an once of water and it wouldn?t take forty days, more like forty minutes and at the simple push of a button. Well then that?s the criteria, I guess we are gods. Ok wait for it?. here it comes?. still waiting??..nope, still here. Maybe he just missed and my neighbor got a free x-ray and his sneakers blown off? Well neither of us have to wait for that which we both know, won?t happen. Not to worry, I?m on Santa?s naughty list as well. Although my chances of dying from a reindeer hoof blow to the head is probably about a few million greater, then any god even caring about what I have to say.

More towards the subject though, most of what I write about is deceit, anger, hate, jealousy, corruption, greed. I guess I could go with some brand placement and mention Jesus a few times, but it doesn?t seem very honest if I?m not a consumer. Once you put on a pair of holy lenses, there?s a real motivation to give all that some justification, maybe a moral and perhaps even zip it up in happy ending. You can?t find the dark with the lights on and my soul works just fine without a net. If you see God?s hands in the human wickedness I write about, it?s a very distant and thin causation. To say that?s what must motivate me, nope that?s just wrong. Somebody (or something) is lying to you. But hey knock yourself out. Yep I must be a Christian too, just not a very good one.

that's a lot of chatter to miss the point entirely. so i suppose you need to try a reading comprehension class before you move to comparative religions.
but i have to give you credit for having loads of faith in the power of religion,
now that you have attributed all of human history to it.
that's what you call a cartoon history.

I could refute your silly over generalization but that really is so tiring.
let just suffice to say that you believe if any person has a belief, and then they leave their house in the morning then anything that happens from then on, must be the fault of the human drive to know something about the WHY in life.
still too easy, don't you think?

Wow you like to throw that line around a lot, learn that word yesterday?

The only problem I have here is that if I proclaimed that all music was the results of Satan?s glory more than one Christian would probably object and who would blame them? Don?t tell me what motivates me. If you think for one second I don?t have the same conviction for what I believe in that you do, that just proves my point.

Animals have instinct, don't we as humans also
have a "universal conscience" that we can draw
upon to guide us in our life. No matter what you
call it, surely you see it's there? If you don't see
it, or refuse to acknowledge it, aren't you at a
disadvantage when dealing with someone who has
the wisdom of the ages at his beck and call.

Some of us call it religion, some morality and ethics,
lesser base people might even call it instinct, but
it's there and you can feel it.

for once I would like to see an atheist prove that he doesn't believe in God.

all you can do is take their word for it, like any other religion.
and like any other religion I'm sure it has it's daily rituals.

JCP. it is difficult to impossible to prove your belief in some idea to anyone else. I mean, you could write a book about it, give lectures, or have arguments on the internet but what someone believes is inside them. My ex-wife was a Catholic; our daughter went through Catechism, First Communion, etc. but later renounced it and is now a firm atheist. She laughs at my agnostic beliefs, but that doesn't change anything.

Just be a good earthling.
Nuff Said.[/b]

Just be a good earthling.
Nuff Said.[/b]

Can't we be good aliens as well?

I don't think I was born here.. lol
It's just a place we moved to from Alpha Centauri.

Animals have instinct, don't we as humans also
have a "universal conscience" that we can draw
upon to guide us in our life. No matter what you
call it, surely you see it's there? If you don't see
it, or refuse to acknowledge it, aren't you at a
disadvantage when dealing with someone who has
the wisdom of the ages at his beck and call.

Some of us call it religion, some morality and ethics,
lesser base people might even call it instinct, but
it's there and you can feel it.

Emmanuel Kant called it "Universal Imperitive". In his development on theory of Ethics, he suggested that ALL humans are called by it, but some accept it and others reject it.

You know, some human beings cant think beyond their own sense of pragmatic reality...and self-importance. They take comfort in being a "natural' man or woman, not realizing how vindictively cruel the "nature" behind anything in 'this world' actually is. The world 'functions' exclusively on laws of physics...A world without Ethics is a world that functions exclusively on physics, with no meaningful purpose to 'humankind' . Its an engine with no journey in front of it. Whereas a world with Ethics, makes "life" for humankind, mean something.

The rejectors believe that life begins and ends with themselves... And even in the imagination of ignorant acceptors, who grasp the magnitude behind the scope of that which surrounds them...many of the rejectors cant admit the existence of any rationale entity bigger than him/herself. If you asked them where the origin of love comes from, they will tell you its from mankind... And yet...there are imperatives, which demand a purer love than any natural man can imagine for his own world.

The thing that separates us from the animals is not our ability to solely rationalize (Since that just throws us back in the toilet..i,e wars and justification of wars, etc), rather, I believe its our ability to 'rise' above and past the 'natural' disposition of life on earth.

Those who rise above the natural disposition do not accept attrition as an explanation for the downfall of the human race. They know that We can ALWAYS choose to NOT WAR, NOT STARVE, NOT SUFFER WITH DISEASES, NOT MURDER, ROB CHEAT OR STEAL...which,...wouldnt ya know...aligns quite smoothly with what Kant was talking about.