General Music Chat

Would you be willing to do any of his (or her) tunes?

Approach this like you're REALLY interested in COLLABORATING.

I've suggested this a number of times on other forums. I know that musicians used to be able to make money from album sales, but that is no longer the case. The album may still be what they judge you by, and, in its early stages, your primary recruiting tool as you try to assemble a roadworthy band. Yes, there still are some very professional, well-paid session musicians in Nashville, New York, and Los Angeles, but unless you have a large cash advance from say, a major record label, those guys aren't in your budget. The people you're likely to find that are willing to sit in on your recording are in the same shoes as you, and they also need a few like-minded musicians to sit in on their recordings. If you're simply going to dictate what they play, why not play it yourself? If you're writing four-part string arrangements for you tracks, you'll have to hire a string quartet and hand them sheet music, and probably pay them their standard wedding rate.

I see your point..But I think I am not communicating the full picture (People are making some assumptions that aren't really the case here..).... In My Project, I am Offering and asking the following:

1) I have a playlist...already established... (Genre is advertised , so target audience already set)
2) I Have a recording Project, already underway with a studio here in town and a professional engineer.
3) I'm coincidentally founding a new band.
4) I am asking select musicians to join me under the following pretenses:
Example: A bass player... to hear my song(s0, and create/record his/her Bass rendition for it. With very rare exception, I have no intention of 'dictating' the bass player's work . I am entrusting and virtually handing over poetic licensee to the Bassist. The same goes for the Drummer and for the Lead Guitarists... Where possible , if required, they will also do vocals...

The best I can Offer these individuals, is the following:
-They do NOT have to Pay anything for the recording I am funding it solely this round)
-I can pay them something up front for their effort... as a show of my earnestness to them.
-I am offering them fair-share rights to any derived profits (If that should occur) as full fledged members of the band.
-I am Recruiting specialists Such as Strings, Saxes etc and paying them accordingly
-I am ensuring the core Band members, the guest artist contributors and even the damn engineer bragging rights and exposure, since I WILL spend the dollars to distribute the copies to all the proper venues and outlets. (Will be giving away the CD) The objective is to obtain Gigging opportunities.


So, Am I to understand then, that I have no right to expect some professional integrity... (instead of the ego maniacal whiners who knock on my door with no experience whatsoever, or who aren't willing to work in this arrangement, because they would rather wait for Sony or RCA to call them up?)

I THINK WHAT ONE HELL OF A BAND WOULD MAKE IF MY BUD JIMMY DANGER, FISHERMAN BOB, CHAEYA, MYSELF TOXICMETAL, AND A FEW OTHER FINE FOLKS ON THIS HERE FORUM INCLUDING ANGRY BASS PLAYER FROM A CITY KNOWN FOR ITS GREAT HOT SALSA MORE THAN ANYTHING ELSE - WHAT A SOULFUL SOUND, WE'D ROCK, WE'D ROLL OUT THE BARREL, HAVE US A BARREL OF FUN.

Actually there are several bands on here that would kick ass...but due to geography it's not practical. You just have to deal with what you're given. Generally, if you really want to rock you need to live in a bigger city. Audition everyone but go with the people that have a good attitude and would make a good "family". Talent and ability are only a fraction of what it takes for success.

Now you have nailed something here... It is my staunchest opinion, that every one here, has some degree of Musicianship and ability, which is way different than just knowing how to play licks.... I really like your comment about "Family" ...its dead-nuts on... Because that will carry and even pick up the slack for talent that is behind the curve... We saw it happen very successfully throughout the 60's and 70's... (It sort of fell apart after that... )

I realize that my attitude on this issue (thread) has been sometimes caustic... I'm really not a bad guy to work with,...and all of my friends, who really know me, will tell you... I'm the salt in their earth, generous to a freaking fault, work my ass off... and probably "Delightfully" Insane on matters that count for them...
I started this thread really because I got put out by the dishonest responses to my ads... All of which give me the impression that I can't have that "family" anymore...

Someone mentioned "drugs bad mmmm??" Well, I been flying high like Ozzy Osborne on "Flying High Again.....Again......Again.......echo echo. Narcotics of many flavors and thank God c'os otherwise I'd be the most depressed person in the world. Everyday normal feelings simply aren't in my DNA. 30 years and never once had to put myself in a stinking prison called Detox. Guess I'm from another planet - Patonga.

I need no lecturing. Some of the worst criminal minds in history were not druggies, like good 'ol Ted Bundy and Jeffery Dharma. I think more people should be on very low doses of Ecstasy. America is in denial, there are a lot of down and out people in the work place but they won't admit it. They're the ones who show up at cool weekend parties, have one stiff drink then go home all depressed. Me, I don't leave until the sun comes up. Yep, I'm feeling fine.

People are on low doses of Ecstasy... Its gotta be...just read the labels of everything we eat and drink...
I used to be depressed...but then I got too tired to be depressed... Now I'm happy... in the knowledge that I can sleep through just about anything.

I guess the work ethic ain't what it used to be, which explains all the lamers in the 80's... Truthfully I hated most of the 80s bands..

okay, now we're getting a little personal

Not intending to be personal... But I can't help my sentiment... I think Toxic Metal explained it very accurately... It comes down to the last of the real DJs..and now that I think of it... That's what pissed me off about the 80's (Its not the bands necessarily)

You know its funny to me when someone says this about where they live. I mean my GF lives in a little bitty town and thru Karaoke and just going to see live music I met a bunch of musicians, and have gone and jammed with them live a bunch and have had a great time. Would I form a band with them, no, but I have another outlet to play in.

I live in a small area, about 30 minutes outside of Memphis over the years Ive found people to play with in the weirdest places.

I think instead of coming on sites like this, you need to find live music in your area and get to know those people, they are the ones doing something, sitting on your couch and just waiting on someone ot discover you isnt going to happen, number one you arent that great a musician in the first place, number two you have to get out there with people doing it. I dont think talent is the key, its someone that no matter where they are finds people doing this. The internet in some ways to me makes some very lazy musicians, back in the 80s we did the plastering car routines, we went out and heard everyone play in our area, got to know them and networked with them. These days what do we do, put an ad on here, or craigslist and expect some one to take notice.

My advice get off your ass and find anyone playing live music in your area, and believe me no matter how shitty a place you live in there are people somewhere playing.

Good Luck

I think you are correct about social access...and the Craigs List assumptions... Others have suggested this and I agree. The networking makes sense... Now if I could just show up , smile, have a laugh buy some rounds for the others... and get them into a studio with me before the end of 2012

number one you arent that great a musician in the first place

Well... thanks...

When i said you werent that good you took that wrong, All of us have inflated egos, what I mean is some people seem to think all they have to do is post a little music here and there and doors will automatically open for them. Im not into your genre of music, but I seem to have an ear for catchy music, and nothing in your seperated it from the pack for me, it was at best just mediocre, that being said you need to hone it better and that would be best served playing live in my opinion, not that mine means much. Cause from a technical side Im probably the worst established musician on here. Sorry you took that wrong, Im just saying it doesnt have anything to make it stand out to me. nothing wrong with your abilitys.

The music you have posted you dont really need a band, you could do it solo on your terms. When I did acoustic shows a few years ago you could gig anywhere with it, mix in covers, originals whatever, plus equipment wise it is so easy, I just took a simple head and two monitors.

I still think you need to network with real live musicians, maybe find some doing acoustic gigs me and a couple I knew used to swap up gigs or let the other come in and play a few for a live audition.

As far as recording, hell I would just play the bass myself and use a drum machine if you cant find players. Its pretty easy to do that if for some reason you have a band in mind, for recording.

I can tell you playing live acoustic gigs can hone your skills faster than anything else you can do, cause its just you a guitar and a mic.

Good Luck

Would you be willing to do any of his (or her) tunes?

Approach this like you're REALLY interested in COLLABORATING.

I've suggested this a number of times on other forums. I know that musicians used to be able to make money from album sales, but that is no longer the case. The album may still be what they judge you by, and, in its early stages, your primary recruiting tool as you try to assemble a roadworthy band. Yes, there still are some very professional, well-paid session musicians in Nashville, New York, and Los Angeles, but unless you have a large cash advance from say, a major record label, those guys aren't in your budget. The people you're likely to find that are willing to sit in on your recording are in the same shoes as you, and they also need a few like-minded musicians to sit in on their recordings. If you're simply going to dictate what they play, why not play it yourself? If you're writing four-part string arrangements for you tracks, you'll have to hire a string quartet and hand them sheet music, and probably pay them their standard wedding rate.

I see your point..But I think I am not communicating the full picture (People are making some assumptions that aren't really the case here..).... In My Project, I am Offering and asking the following:

1) I have a playlist...already established... (Genre is advertised , so target audience already set)
2) I Have a recording Project, already underway with a studio here in town and a professional engineer.
3) I'm coincidentally founding a new band.
4) I am asking select musicians to join me under the following pretenses:
Example: A bass player... to hear my song(s0, and create/record his/her Bass rendition for it. With very rare exception, I have no intention of 'dictating' the bass player's work . I am entrusting and virtually handing over poetic licensee to the Bassist. The same goes for the Drummer and for the Lead Guitarists... Where possible , if required, they will also do vocals...

The best I can Offer these individuals, is the following:
-They do NOT have to Pay anything for the recording I am funding it solely this round)
-I can pay them something up front for their effort... as a show of my earnestness to them.
-I am offering them fair-share rights to any derived profits (If that should occur) as full fledged members of the band.
-I am Recruiting specialists Such as Strings, Saxes etc and paying them accordingly
-I am ensuring the core Band members, the guest artist contributors and even the damn engineer bragging rights and exposure, since I WILL spend the dollars to distribute the copies to all the proper venues and outlets. (Will be giving away the CD) The objective is to obtain Gigging opportunities.


So, Am I to understand then, that I have no right to expect some professional integrity... (instead of the ego maniacal whiners who knock on my door with no experience whatsoever, or who aren't willing to work in this arrangement, because they would rather wait for Sony or RCA to call them up?)

Now that's more like it. You should have posted this FIRST and left out your low opinion of the place you live AND the place you are trying to get gigs at...

Im not into your genre of music, but I seem to have an ear for catchy music, and nothing in yours seperated it from the pack for me, it was at best just mediocre, that being said you need to hone it better and that would be best served playing live in my opinion, not that mine means much. Cause from a technical side Im probably the worst established musician on here. Sorry you took that wrong, Im just saying it doesnt have anything to make it stand out to me. nothing wrong with your abilitys.

Ha ha , You know, I wrote a paper in college once about Arnold Schoenberg (who coined "Emancipation of Dissonance"). He tried to explain the essence of composition, and I used the metaphor of "Laying the raw egg" in my paper. I went on to
describe his victimization of consumers of music, who criticized him for not having laid the egg with all the hollandais sauce on it. (Consonance or commonly referred to as "catchiness") Any self respecting artist knows its an impossibility to lay the egg as such.. The hollandasie comes later after the community of professionals jump in to prepare it. I do feel your comment has achieved the same perspective as Schoenberg's Consumers.. and it reinforces the case I made for him.

Having said that. If your critiques are to be credible, it would help to include specifics and it would help to call things by their appropriate names... I am well aware of your genre (Having listened to your tracks). To me, it would seem that maybe what your are telling me about mediocrity might be misguided. Now, if you are referring to the technical nomenclature of my recording product..and it doesn't work for you, I would agree...My presentation sucks. (but then you haven't heard my better stuff, have you?)

Conversely, your stuff is excellent. In fact, I've not heard a cleaner execution of notes on band-mix, like I have heard in yours...

If you are suggesting that my songs simply don't resonate with you...I can readily accept that...But in no way does it necessarily mean they are mediocre. For example, Your song about the "ho", its three chords basically, not exactly tuneful, and its thematically point of story is painfully predictable. Yet, the execution was outstanding. To an A& R guy, it probably rocks. To me...It just don't float my boat. Now, should I dismiss as "mediocrity", in my critique?. If I did that, what would you learn by it? What I'm telling you here is that I'm not into your genre either, and having heard your playlist, I'm not exactly moved , specifically by the lack of a certain level of substance in your material to appease the three most important elements for mass appeal. (more on that later) But I can say, your songs' executions and productions are quite brilliant.

Not intending to bust your chops..but if we are to be candid...

The music you have posted you dont really need a band, you could do it solo on your terms. When I did acoustic shows a few years ago you could gig anywhere with it, mix in covers, originals whatever, plus equipment wise it is so easy, I just took a simple head and two monitors.

This is only true, from the perspective of a Industry-narrow-market specialist. (i.e. Musicians that do not seek to appeal to mass market but who target a certain segment of market) In your case, its somewhere between metal and pop commercial, I think.

I still think you need to network with real live musicians, maybe find some doing acoustic gigs me and a couple I knew used to swap up gigs or let the other come in and play a few for a live audition.

Yes I agree with you totally, that's excellent advice.

As far as recording, hell I would just play the bass myself and use a drum machine if you cant find players. Its pretty easy to do that if for some reason you have a band in mind, for recording.

Thought about it, but what would be the point ..I actually embrace other artistic input.

Paper, Bench For Two, sounds like the tempo is dragging to me, it might could use speeding up slightly, but I know its a melancholly song so maybe that was the intent. Theres nothing really worng with the song structure wise to me, it just doesnt go anywhere lyrically for me, Nietze, or however you spell it and God, come on thats been done to death thru the years.

Guitar is noisy, I dont know if you meant to have the slapping sound in there or not. not sure what you use guitar and mic wise, maybe try a condensor mic near the bridge or soundhole and oddly my guy has been using a SM 57 of all things lately on the neck end. The playing is a little sloppy to my ears, could maybe brush up on your picking technique some.

The second song is Before You Accuse Me dang cant even remember the name, its just a copy of that song to my ears, of course in the bluesy vein we all steal anyway so what. Of the three songs if I were to record one of them I would do this cause I love that style of song.

Now the Ballad Of Paper Dog is inteeresting, kinda has that Beatles type feel from the Sgt Pepper era to me, I had to cut short listening to it again, due to work. But of the three it grabbed me the most, sadly it was just the keys that were getting my attention, what was the lyric about a hole in your head or hole in my head.

When I said your songs sound mediocre thats exactly what I meant, dont believe me click on youtube and look up acoustic folk music and you will find hundreds of songs people put up that may or may not be better but they just dont jump out at you, or me anyway. That was my honest opinion.

Also as I said before most of us think that our songs are the best in the world like they are special, I think you should reexamine the emotional content of your songs I dont feel it, cant put my finger on it, its like a picture that was painted by the numbers versus a piccasso, dont know if that makes sense.

Youve got about 5-10 seconds to grab a listener, in my opinion, make sure there is something that grabs someone.

Oh yeah thanks for listening to a couple of mine, Ive shared this before but I dont view my music as that great a thing, most of them are just moments in time to me, in fact some I would have to totally relearn if I were to even think about playing them live, they are just a moment in time of my life, the things I was thinking at the time, they werent intended in ay way for mass consumption, my forte is playing live in a cover band, big whoopie, but I do get to play rock start for a few hours.

Anyway keep at it, there is some major potential in what you are doing.

Paper, Bench For Two, sounds like the tempo is dragging to me, it might could use speeding up slightly, but I know its a melancholly song so maybe that was the intent. Theres nothing really worng with the song structure wise to me, it just doesnt go anywhere lyrically for me, Nietze, or however you spell it and God, come on thats been done to death thru the years. Guitar is noisy, I dont know if you meant to have the slapping sound in there or not. not sure what you use guitar and mic wise, maybe try a condensor mic near the bridge or soundhole and oddly my guy has been using a SM 57 of all things lately on the neck end. The playing is a little sloppy to my ears, could maybe brush up on your picking technique some.

Now Were talking! You see I can handle the specifics. And I do love to discuss the ups and downs of a work.. And amazingly, I agree with most Every Thing you said about the "Bench for two". It lags, Its tinny, and needs lots of work on meter- tightness. Lyrical content was not "about" Nietzsche and God.. but rather used it to illustrate an irony while a homeless guy pines over a stranger. When I recorded it (And posted) My intent was strictly to get the blue print down for audition of prospective candidates that might want to jump in on it. The real magic will come later (And I will re-post the final versions) The final version...well I have about 5 more tracks (Not including vocals) to add. Basically the song write now is in a seed form.

The second song is Before You Accuse Me dang cant even remember the name, its just a copy of that song to my ears, of course in the bluesy vein we all steal anyway so what. Of the three songs if I were to record one of them I would do this cause I love that style of song.

My only defense here ... is I wrote that one before Clapton wrote or released his... Just now got around to doing something with it. Its a standard R & B.. with a touch of the 50's Ray Charles and a dash of that road house rock with a smidgen of Jerry lee Lewis... (The Final version will reflect that, with a Piano track ) Now, I came about this one in the 80's from being inspired by Stevie Ray Vaughn, ( Before he made it big...) I will also say proudly that parts of that song crossed his ears during a stage break (while they were packing up ) He did not seem to mind it... (I was 20 years old... and just a punk )

Now the Ballad Of Paper Dog is inteeresting, kinda has that Beatles type feel from the Sgt Pepper era to me, I had to cut short listening to it again, due to work. But of the three it grabbed me the most, sadly it was just the keys that were getting my attention, what was the lyric about a hole in your head or hole in my head.

If you go back to the profile, I had written out the lyrics to that one. The song fictionalizes a character 'paperdog" (Which as you Know I am using as a screen name here). Its a huge pun on the Cafe scene...
Again the recording is shoddy as hell... In fact, I had recorded Drum, Base, Acoustic and vocals in a studio and eq'd that into a mastered cut. Then later, I got hold of a copy of Acid recording Studio SW, and using Midi feature I actually constructed the piano, literally, note to note on the screen with point & Click (just to see if I could do it) Did the same thing for with Cello &Horns. and laid these down over the cut. (Separation, construction Mixing and else was the most tedious exercise I have ever endeavored ...and I am no engineer ) I laid down a lead with a Bottle neck (Using a Bic Lighter actually ) , and again, for giggles, I looped the lead backwards, made adjustments and laid that down for effect. All in all its the best "Guerilla" exercise I ever did. from there on,, I promise to get an engineer...

When I said your songs sound mediocre thats exactly what I meant, dont believe me click on youtube and look up acoustic folk music and you will find hundreds of songs people put up that may or may not be better but they just dont jump out at you, or me anyway. That was my honest opinion.

Truthfully, I respect your opinion, now that the context is so much clearer.
I do believe, its the Folk part that just comes off too banal for ya... and any song in that (with some exceptions) ... is already DIW ..Would that be safe to say?

Also as I said before most of us think that our songs are the best in the world like they are special

I Know I do

, I think you should reexamine the emotional content of your songs I dont feel it, cant put my finger on it, its like a picture that was painted by the numbers versus a piccasso, dont know if that makes sense.

Maybe too Mechanical? I get that. However, the content.. Song 1, meant to be pretty esoteric...with the hoe that it can grab some compassion from interested listeners. Song 2... Nothing emotional intended. I had changed the The Lyrics (not the structure) from my original version... Now the damn song is about me quitting smoking... Nobody would be expected to get that..it was a tongue-in-cheek... but its a good lil toe tapper...

Youve got about 5-10 seconds to grab a listener, in my opinion, make sure there is something that grabs someone.
Oh yeah thanks for listening to a couple of mine, Ive shared this before but I dont view my music as that great a thing, most of them are just moments in time to me, in fact some I would have to totally relearn if I were to even think about playing them live, they are just a moment in time of my life, the things I was thinking at the time, they werent intended in ay way for mass consumption, my forte is playing live in a cover band, big whoopie, but I do get to play rock start for a few hours.
Anyway keep at it, there is some major potential in what you are doing.

Listen, (Your stuff) really is good. I think the only difference is that yours shows the dicipline, and mine doesnt (just yet) , and I happen to be a wordy bastard, and I get lost in abstract verbage. If I am lucky, that can spill over into song...
Eitherway, you and I...its all good bro..and I truly appreciate your inputs, and I especiually respect that you kept it fair and civil
(I am working to watch my tongue in these forums now.. : ) 2 days now and no safety violations LOL!

Paper actually I like folk music, thats why I responded in the first place. I used to do some solo acoustic gigs in college, as far as wordiness in music and tongue in cheek, listen to Cyber Outlaw or Funky Bee on my player.

Something else I thought about on your songs, if I were you I would go back and listen to some recordings of guitar, more specifically acoustic, I cant tell if your using an acoustic or plugging in the Gretsche. I always liked to listen the Led Zep III for acoustic guitar sound references.

In your recordings of your guitar, I cant say the right word, but I would go for more clarity in the sound, its like a 2 track tape machine where you just threw a mic up, and didnt think about how it would come across.

If your in a listening mood, go to my player and listen to Pinball Wizard. In recording it, my band was just setting up in our bassist studio, an old acoustic was laying around and I was just diddling around with the chords on the intro, We played that song years ago, but hadnt revisited it in years, our singe loved it and said Hey lets do that, So I sat in the control room, we threw up a pair of mics on the guitar, cant remember which ones, our bassist was sitting next to me, plugged straight in the board. The drummer was in the main room, and our singer in a vocal group. We played the drums, bass, acoustic guitar and vocal live in one take, I overdubbed the electrics. To me the acoustic sound we got there had more clarity than anything I can remember recording before. Im not bragging but it just sounded good to me and many others have heard that and commented on it.


Actually if you lived in my area I would enjoy putting some guitars on your stuff, it would be fun.

Have a Great Day

In your recordings of your guitar, I cant say the right word, but I would go for more clarity in the sound, its like a 2 track tape machine where you just threw a mic up, and didnt think about how it would come across.

Agreed, Actually you nailed it.. That Bench song was slapped down in minutes, adhoc... with no real mind to the mic settings... It was not meant for anything more than a blue print idea structure (think..very rough sketch on a napkin) . to quickly post The purpose of posting was to give access to other musicians to rough- sketch their track(s) (i.e audition) . Once we get into the studio with it, for real...You'll find it will be a whole new plateu of quality, done the way a song should be done. I am a big fan of crisp , rich acoustic sound...on the wooden guitar. (I have a Martin, to that end)

Also got to thinking about that lack of direction in Bench.. (I had discussed this with my drummer, who is pretty accomplished musician, and he had sort of sensed the same thing... This was actually a few months back... We agreed that one thing that need to be added was a proper coda/ ending... In this version it just sorta abruptly dies in your arms, if ya know what i mean.

Actually if you lived in my area I would enjoy putting some guitars on your stuff, it would be fun.

Ya never know... It might happen...
Thanks much for considering it...

If your in a listening mood, go to my player and listen to Pinball Wizard. ...To me the acoustic sound we got there had more clarity than anything I can remember recording before. ....

Yep very clear... I might take off just a smidgen of the saturation on it (in the mid range, mid or low range) , but otherwise it sounds great...! (5 second Hand Blues is clear too) ';)

its ok dude...we're in SD and we cant find a guitarist, drummer, OR bassist...so ur not alone:)

its ok dude...we're in SD and we cant find a guitarist, drummer, OR bassist...so ur not alone:)

Iowa runneth over with musicians. And a fair share of good ones too.

Funny how those who want to can't find musicians, and the ones who don't can't walk out the front door without tripping over one.

Then move