General Music Chat

As I see it, if folks boast success in their lives without due credit to God (Or the 'good" forces'), then its only fair that when things are going wrong for them because of their decisions, they shouldn't be blaming the devil (or the 'bad Forces')

Isn't that presumptuous that anything 'good' 'successful' must be attributed to the Abrahamic god and everything 'bad' is the result of the Devil?

I couldn't possibly see it that way . . . have you noticed the monumental amount of murder in your bible, all in the name of your god?

According to your own scriptures:
-God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21)

-God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. -He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3)

-He orders another attack and the killing of “all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses” (Joshua 6)

-In (Judges 21) He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead

-In (2 Kings 10:18-27) God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church!

I think he just got sick and tired of killing all these dumb asses and decided just to let mankind kill each other... its the bigger plan and its working very well.

As I see it, if folks boast success in their lives without due credit to God (Or the 'good" forces'), then its only fair that when things are going wrong for them because of their decisions, they shouldn't be blaming the devil (or the 'bad Forces')

Isn't that presumptuous that anything 'good' 'successful' must be attributed to the Abrahamic god and everything 'bad' is the result of the Devil?

I couldn't possibly see it that way . . . have you noticed the monumental amount of murder in your bible, all in the name of your god?

According to your own scriptures:
-God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21)

-God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. -He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3)

-He orders another attack and the killing of “all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses” (Joshua 6)

-In (Judges 21) He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead

-In (2 Kings 10:18-27) God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church!

I think he just got sick and tired of killing all these dumb asses and decided just to let mankind kill each other... its the bigger plan and its working very well.

Lam 3:37 No one can do anything without the Lord's approval.
Joh 3:27 John replied: No one can do anything unless God in heaven allows it.
Lam 3:38 Good and bad each happen at the command of God Most High.
Isa 45:7 I am the giver of light and the maker of the dark; causing blessing, and sending troubles; I am the Lord, who does all these things.

(ESV) To the choirmaster. Of David. The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none who does good.

Pro 15:2 Knowledge is dropping from the tongue of the wise; but from the mouth of the foolish comes a stream of foolish words.

Legally, if I was at a bar and I watched a guy get drunk and you failed to stop serving him drinks. We leave the bar and that idiot hits my car and I get hurt I will sue your ass for being partly responsible, and I will win because I work for lawyers and I know how the law works, even if I push you to just settling with me, I will get some cash. So there's your level of responsibility. Spiritually, I would go out of my way and make sure these people get home safely. One person I know who owns a bar is really cool and there is a neighborhood drunk who comes there and gets sloshed. She cuts him off after a certain time, then she makes sure one of the other patrons drives him home. That's what I mean by being responsible! He's an alcoholic, she can't stop that, but she can at least take care of her end of it. I can't tell you how many drunks Cisco and I have driven home. I could have said "f**k it, not my problem" but if I see it, then I will do something about it. I know too many people who are dead because of these clowns.

First, let me just say ....that I Hate... with vitriolic passion, all Lawyers and Judges and I think they should all die... And I hope its by drunk drivers...or aides or anthrax. (Hows that for Spiritual negative energy...)

As for suing me if I failed to stop serving drinks, Well, we had a case in my town, where .. A young man walked out of a bar plastered, drove off, hit and killed another motorist. There had been a video in the bar (security) which clearly showed the bar continuing to serve him... Problem was, the video could not discern whether he was drunk or not. They couldn't really use it. They went with witness testimony... Here's the short of of it... They closed the bar down for 6 months...Now he's back in business. Let me tell you why I think every lawyer in the universe should go f**k him/herself... The only people that made out on that case were the PI lawyers and the City. The Victim's family got no real resolution, The drunk Driver will get out in 5- 10 (Not Life) ... The law, is a big f**k joke... period! and the people that run it, interpret it are evil scumbags...period! (I was accepted in law school and saw the inequity and got out.)

So, if some kid decides that its cool to jump off a bridge because some song told him that he should, I'd say that the kid was screwed up to begin with, and I don't care if Satan himself was the voice behind it, its the Kid's fault for not seeking the higher road (if only to reach out to somebody).

Yes, he was screwed up. That's the problem with mental illness. I went through my hell with it and most of my so-called friends just cast me aside and said "it wasn't their problem." Doctors just throwing pills at me all the time. Luckily, I was strong enough to help myself, many people aren't. The mental health resources in this country is sh*t all because everyone thinks we should just be able to "get over it" and the favorite "not our problem."

I agree that there a a lot of insensitive people surrounding mental illness... Of course, how much of it has actually been used as an excuse to behave badly. I worked with the director Of CMS in Los Angeles a few years back on a project with his Investigative crew. He shared caseloads of Fraud Waste and Abuse on Medicare files with me... Cases that the courts deliberately held up for years. Cases where tax payers are getting skanked by assholes who generate frivolous claims (Mental Health being part of the claims) You want to know why The health system is so f**k up? Its because of the Legal System. Again, if you are a Judge or a lawyer, you can go f**k yourself!.

There are a lot of folks out there screwed up. So if you write a song called "Pull the Trigger" and have lyrics to the effect of saying "put the gun to your head, life is sh*t, pull the trigger, this is it" and have some really down grungy, depressing music in the background - I mean, WTF? Every suicidal maniac will love that song. YOU ARE PARTLY RESPONSIBLE. Maybe not on a legal level, but spiritually YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE, and that sh*t will come back to haunt you.

I would agree that we have moral obligations. Again, thanks to our really f**k up legal system, you might have noticed that no mention has been made here about "why" the state doesn't ban Alcohol or "evil" music. See, if you are gonna "Sue my ass" for serving a guy that hits your car, then don't you think you should also sue the Governor and legislatures, who Also have a moral OBLIGATION concerning the GOOD of the community. Try this Out for Negligence: Your car would not have been hit by the drunk driver, BUT FOR THE FACT That he was served by a bar that pays a staunch license, gets taxed the crap out of every drop he serves, by state authorities, who GAVE him permission to serve alcohol and who will NOT provide the bar WITH A BREATHALYZER TOOL TO MONITOR PATRONS, nor establish a means to enforce legal limits of Blood alcohol BEFORE incidents occur. If any of that took place, then Lawyers and judges would not make any money. Did I mention that Lawyers and Judges should go f**k themselves?.

As I see it, if folks boast success in their lives without due credit to God (Or the 'good" forces'), then its only fair that when things are going wrong for them because of their decisions, they shouldn't be blaming the devil (or the 'bad Forces')

Isn't that presumptuous that anything 'good' 'successful' must be attributed to the Abrahamic god and everything 'bad' is the result of the Devil?

I couldn't possibly see it that way . . . have you noticed the monumental amount of murder in your bible, all in the name of your god?

I'm sure that the only difference between the amount of Murders in the name of God as opposed to the amount of murders in the name of Satan or Lucifer, is that Most journalists side with Lucifer

According to your own scriptures:
-God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21)

But that was the work Of David...Not of God. Ex: David was conscience-stricken after he had counted the fighting men, and he said to the LORD, "I have sinned greatly in what I have done. Now, O LORD, I beg you, take away the guilt of your servant. I have done a very foolish thing."

God Punished David by setting a plague on his people for a limited period.

See Etu , Context is everything. The muslum sites on line do this to validate their own justification for anti-christian sentiments (or to reinforce their own) . They cherry pick God's history to suit their arguments. Ironically, The middle east still practices many of the old testament dictates, including mass murders. There are also args which suggest the writings of old testament are muddled between Hebrew and other writings. If such ambiguity exists, Bang! the New Testament resolves that. You will not find one shred of evidence that God ordered Christians to murder anybody. Christ is about love, tolerance and the pursuit of life...(Not its destruction)

-God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. -He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3)

-He orders another attack and the killing of “all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses” (Joshua 6)

-In (Judges 21) He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead

-In (2 Kings 10:18-27) God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church!

Can you cite "why" God did these things?

Gee Dog, I think you're taking me personally. I didn't mean sue you, I'm talking in general. I'm talking general common sense. If you're the bartender and you see a guy has had too much, then what I'm saying, is morally, wouldn't you say "you've had enough" and stop?

No, I shouldn't have to go that far up the ladder as suing the Legislature, if you as the bar owner, you have a responsibility beyond legally about what you're doing. Legal aside. But if you don't think you do, then you live according to your rules.

I'm bowing out. I'm busy and I have a lot of work to do. I realized that I've wasted a lot of time going back and forth with people on topics here with know real purpose so we'll just agree to disagree.

Yes, the legal system sucks, it's horrible. But then, I've worked in it long enough to where I can file pro per, I don't need a lawyer for certain things. The reason the legal system sucks is people filing stupid lawsuits because they can't look where they're going and such, but that's a whole 'nother subject. I'm done.

Going to focus on music.

Chaeya

Gee Dog, I think you're taking me personally. I didn't mean sue you, I'm talking in general. I'm talking general common sense. If you're the bartender and you see a guy has had too much, then what I'm saying, is morally, wouldn't you say "you've had enough" and stop?

No, I shouldn't have to go that far up the ladder as suing the Legislature, if you as the bar owner, you have a responsibility beyond legally about what you're doing. Legal aside. But if you don't think you do, then you live according to your rules.

I'm bowing out. I'm busy and I have a lot of work to do. I realized that I've wasted a lot of time going back and forth with people on topics here with know real purpose so we'll just agree to disagree.

Yes, the legal system sucks, it's horrible. But then, I've worked in it long enough to where I can file pro per, I don't need a lawyer for certain things. The reason the legal system sucks is people filing stupid lawsuits because they can't look where they're going and such, but that's a whole 'nother subject. I'm done.

Going to focus on music.

Chaeya

Not taken personally Chaeya, The subject of Legal systems in general is bit of a sore subject with me.. My apologies if I've come off too caustic... (Its the male version of being a bitch... i think LOL).. I do tend to speak my mind...but I don't mean it to be harmful.. .
I agree with you essentially about moral obligation and I think we both agree that common sense is scarce these days.
Its NEVER a waste of time to have a dialog with either of us

As I see it, if folks boast success in their lives without due credit to God (Or the 'good" forces'), then its only fair that when things are going wrong for them because of their decisions, they shouldn't be blaming the devil (or the 'bad Forces')

Isn't that presumptuous that anything 'good' 'successful' must be attributed to the Abrahamic god and everything 'bad' is the result of the Devil?

I couldn't possibly see it that way . . . have you noticed the monumental amount of murder in your bible, all in the name of your god?

I'm sure that the only difference between the amount of Murders in the name of God as opposed to the amount of murders in the name of Satan or Lucifer, is that Most journalists side with Lucifer

According to your own scriptures:
-God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21)

But that was the work Of David...Not of God. Ex: David was conscience-stricken after he had counted the fighting men, and he said to the LORD, "I have sinned greatly in what I have done. Now, O LORD, I beg you, take away the guilt of your servant. I have done a very foolish thing."

God Punished David by setting a plague on his people for a limited period.

See Etu , Context is everything. The muslum sites on line do this to validate their own justification for anti-christian sentiments (or to reinforce their own) . They cherry pick God's history to suit their arguments. Ironically, The middle east still practices many of the old testament dictates, including mass murders. There are also args which suggest the writings of old testament are muddled between Hebrew and other writings. If such ambiguity exists, Bang! the New Testament resolves that. You will not find one shred of evidence that God ordered Christians to murder anybody. Christ is about love, tolerance and the pursuit of life...(Not its destruction)

-God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. -He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3)

-He orders another attack and the killing of “all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses” (Joshua 6)

-In (Judges 21) He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead

-In (2 Kings 10:18-27) God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church!

Can you cite "why" God did these things?

I'll give you two reasons why this god did these atrocities . . . 1. because god doesn't exist, and these atrocities were man-made and justified by a religion based on violence, guilt, delusion, and worse of all, control.

2. Because this god is a jealous, petty, power-monger, and violent Demiurge.

Context? I thought I posted every biblical verse associated with each atrocity?

As for murders or any violence in that book associated with Satan / Lucifer / Devil . . . there isn't any. Satan doesn't murder / kill ONE person.

As for murders or any violence in that book associated with Satan / Lucifer / Devil . . . there isn't any. Satan doesn't murder / kill ONE person.

Weeeeeeellll... Some could argue that Man, AKA the tool; does the bidding of either God or Satan.
The flaw in your quoted logic above, is that it omits the possibility that Satan and his followers simply"forgot " to include any texts alluding to murders by Satan. I know if my intention was to deceive others, I'd conveniently omit such facts about myself.

We could go round and round about this. As such, I acknowledge your position. I can't say that I agree with it, but I certainly can appreciate the deep cynicism...as I have had my own cynicism in my life...I have challenged all of it Know what won me over to God? The architect design...the blue prints...for peace that is offered. If we follow them, there is no more death and strife... .

This much about God I can prove: I've seen him in a 7-11 store and nobody on the planet will ever believe me.

As for murders or any violence in that book associated with Satan / Lucifer / Devil . . . there isn't any. Satan doesn't murder / kill ONE person.

Weeeeeeellll... Some could argue that Man, AKA the tool; does the bidding of either God or Satan.
The flaw in your quoted logic above, is that it omits the possibility that Satan and his followers simply"forgot " to include any texts alluding to murders by Satan. I know if my intention was to deceive others, I'd conveniently omit such facts about myself.

We could go round and round about this. As such, I acknowledge your position. I can't say that I agree with it, but I certainly can appreciate the deep cynicism...as I have had my own cynicism in my life...I have challenged all of it Know what won me over to God? The architect design...the blue prints...for peace that is offered. If we follow them, there is no more death and strife... .

This much about God I can prove: I've seen him in a 7-11 store and nobody on the planet will ever believe me.

You're overlooking the biggie here . . . the Abrahamic Bible is the Word of God . . . so, God conveniently forgot to mention the atrocities of Satan as well as the dinosaurs? Come on . . . this is getting ridiculous.

Not taken personally Chaeya, The subject of Legal systems in general is bit of a sore subject with me.. My apologies if I've come off too caustic... (Its the male version of being a bitch... i think LOL).. I do tend to speak my mind...but I don't mean it to be harmful.. .
I agree with you essentially about moral obligation and I think we both agree that common sense is scarce these days.
Its NEVER a waste of time to have a dialog with either of us

Okay, I actually went home, worked out and worked on two songs, so now I feel like I accomplished something. My head was spinning. I understand your ire, really, and I work for them, knowing how unfair they are, but then people treat the legal system like the lottery. I get phone calls from people who think they have the right to sue someone simply because a blade of grass on their neighbor's yard cut them. Doesn't work that way. And there are a bunch of judges I could just really set adrift in the Pacific with no food and water and I wouldn't feel one ounce of remorse. But then these are mostly family law cases and I've never done family or criminal law, it would make me too angry. I just watch corporations screw each other over and make my people rich and keep me in a job.

Chaeya

You're overlooking the biggie here . . . the Abrahamic Bible is the Word of God . . . so, God conveniently forgot to mention the atrocities of Satan as well as the dinosaurs? Come on . . . this is getting ridiculous.

I suppose God also forgot to mention the other planetary bodies, which may contain other life in the universe. Doesn't mean it ain't there..., but the bigger point is the Word of God wasn't about Satan, any more than any book of Satan was about God...

I can't really answer to the attrocities committed in the old testament, except to say, you've never mentioned one "good" thing that the God of Abraham has ever done.

Your Arguments are intense and seething with a sense of contempt. I kind of suspect you have been burned... somewhere and that the death of 70 thousand people bothers you less , than the possibility that their deaths disabuse your theory about the non-existence of God. For many people, it seems bothersome to swallow the presence of God under less pristine historical references than the fairy tales we are all typically accustomed to.

Philosophy is an indulgent endeavor, replete with wooden scaffolding, destined to fall apart at our feet like pick up sticks. So I'm gonna leave you with a triad to ponder and then I'm DONE with this subject:

If there is such a place as heaven, and you are destined for it...Then when you die, you will come to acquire all the knowledge of the universe.
If there is such a place as a Hell, and you are destined for it. Then when you die, you will come to acquire all the knowledge of the universe.
If there is neither a heaven or a hell, then when you die, its best for you, if you've understood and can recognize love.

You're overlooking the biggie here . . . the Abrahamic Bible is the Word of God . . . so, God conveniently forgot to mention the atrocities of Satan as well as the dinosaurs? Come on . . . this is getting ridiculous.

Job40:15Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.

16Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.

17He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.

18His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.

Isaiah 27:1In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.

I can't really answer to the attrocities committed in the old testament, except to say, you've never mentioned one "good" thing that the God of Abraham has ever done.

No one ever asked me? LOL

Your Arguments are intense and seething with a sense of contempt. I kind of suspect you have been burned... somewhere and that the death of 70 thousand people bothers you less , than the possibility that their deaths disabuse your theory about the non-existence of God. For many people, it seems bothersome to swallow the presence of God under less pristine historical references than the fairy tales we are all typically accustomed to.

I have not been burned in any way shape or form, but I do have a contempt for the Christian religion, or for religion in general.

Philosophy is an indulgent endeavor, replete with wooden scaffolding, destined to fall apart at our feet like pick up sticks. So I'm gonna leave you with a triad to ponder and then I'm DONE with this subject:

If there is such a place as heaven, and you are destined for it...Then when you die, you will come to acquire all the knowledge of the universe.
If there is such a place as a Hell, and you are destined for it. Then when you die, you will come to acquire all the knowledge of the universe.
If there is neither a heaven or a hell, then when you die, its best for you, if you've understood and can recognize love.

Nicely put, but I would rather look at heaven as something acquired in the here & now, not something presented as a reward for servitude.

Heaven is achieved in the present tense.

Isaiah 27:1In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.

Leviathan is an allegory for the Mysteries of the Mind, the conscious expansion of Man's Psyche. And it is quite true that this god of yours seeks to annihilate this in Man, to prevent our true individuality to present itself through gnosis of these Mysteries.

Leviathan represents Water and corresponds to the West. The word 'leviathan' in Hebrew means approximately "that which is drawn out".