General Music Chat

Hey everyone. This is my first serious topic post on bandmix. I've been composing various genres of music over the course of 10 years. I'm 19 as of now. I started composing songs in the hard rock/heavy metal genre first. I've since been dwelling in a large variety of electronic dance music genres, and I've even worked with ambient music. At this time, I'm working with my heavy metal project again, and I've stumbled across a problem. Like most people who start composing on rock/metal instruments, I can't get out of using the typical key signatures of those instruments. When people think of heavy metal, E and D are constantly occurring key signatures. I've bought a seven-stringed guitar so I can change to B, or tune a half-step down to A#. I still think these are sounds that have been heard before.

I'm looking to take heavy metal to the next level of emotion. I think a lot of the aggressive sound that trademarks the genre is made in production. Alternative key signatures can be used effectively in a way that would express new feelings, other than the overwhelmingly dark ones that most bands express. That drives a lot of people away from the genre. So, my question is; can anyone give me advice on breaking my habit, and/or give me a list of the key signatures and modes, and the way each one uniquely stimulates certain emotions?

Thanks before hand. Hope I get some good answers.

Sure . . . go listen to this piece of mine http://soundcloud.com/siriusb-2/godsnake

Sorry, this link actually works

yeah dude, make a clean break from death/ambient/carcass/throng rock for 6 months & give yerself up to the Celtic music scene.
(a mixture of traditional/uilleann piping/celtic/rock fusion)
It's bound to change yer whole outlook for life: for the better....

no charge fer that one laddie.
R

I'm not sure changing the key changes the emotion. Maybe I misunderstand. You should be able to write a song in ANY key. A good vocalist should be able to sing a song in ANY key. If a song is dark and in the key of E and you change the key to C, can that "lighten" the tune? I don't see how that is possible. I have a few songs that change keys in the middle of the song and it really doesn't change the mood of the song. Maybe you'll have to explain to me what you"re getting at a little better. Although I've been performing live for 30 years I consider myself a technical dummy when it comes to music.

Achieving a different sound requires that you know what sound you're looking for. Begin by ridding yourself of the notion of music theory and keys. If you have a song theme that you dream/think about constantly, record yourself humming it - then grab your guitar and try to reproduce that sound. The key will then be a product of your creativity.

If you want to come up with a new sound that you haven't yet come up with in your mind, then you need to seek music and sounds from other places. Listen to other music that inspires your interest.

When all is said and done, key-theory explains what happened in a mathematical / sound-theory kind of way, but music isn't created by just throwing modes and keys together - otherwise you could just write program with some rules and press go to produce music... The music YOU care about begins with an idea from within, and your task is to produce that sound on your instrument(s).

here, read a blog post I wrote on something similar to what I'm talking about here:

http://www.ckdesigns.com/blog/?p=37

Best to you.
Chris

Hey everyone. This is my first serious topic post on bandmix. I've been composing various genres of music over the course of 10 years. I'm 19 as of now. I started composing songs in the hard rock/heavy metal genre first. I've since been dwelling in a large variety of electronic dance music genres, and I've even worked with ambient music. At this time, I'm working with my heavy metal project again, and I've stumbled across a problem. Like most people who start composing on rock/metal instruments, I can't get out of using the typical key signatures of those instruments. When people think of heavy metal, E and D are constantly occurring key signatures. I've bought a seven-stringed guitar so I can change to B, or tune a half-step down to A#. I still think these are sounds that have been heard before.

I'm looking to take heavy metal to the next level of emotion. I think a lot of the aggressive sound that trademarks the genre is made in production. Alternative key signatures can be used effectively in a way that would express new feelings, other than the overwhelmingly dark ones that most bands express. That drives a lot of people away from the genre. So, my question is; can anyone give me advice on breaking my habit, and/or give me a list of the key signatures and modes, and the way each one uniquely stimulates certain emotions?

Thanks before hand. Hope I get some good answers.

Here is a link: http://gosk.com/scales/

Take a look at the five variations on Harmonic Minor scales - that will change your mood a bit. Also Melodic Minors.

Regular pentatonic minors can be nice - I hadn't realized how addicted I was to pentatonic majors until I started diving deep into this stuff.

Phrygian mode is interesting as well. but try all the modes and play the variations on the different elements of a major / minor scale. Much fun coming your way.

Talbot

Here is a link: http://gosk.com/scales/

Take a look at the five variations on Harmonic Minor scales - that will change your mood a bit. Also Melodic Minors.

Regular pentatonic minors can be nice - I hadn't realized how addicted I was to pentatonic majors until I started diving deep into this stuff.

Phrygian mode is interesting as well. but try all the modes and play the variations on the different elements of a major / minor scale. Much fun coming your way.

Talbot

This is certainly the most helpful advice in here. I'm addicted to half-whole step scales. I'm trying to get over using too many pentatonic scales in my solos also.

A rose by any other name - is still a rose . . .
.
Enigmata, if you're looking for different emotions in your music, maybe you need to first learn a few different styles of music . . .
Try a few new styles for a couple weeks . . . learn something different.

80's Rock with lots of reverb

Key signatures most certainly have distinct effects on emotions. I'm sure everyone has heard that D minor is the saddest key, or that E flat major is triumphant or heroic.

From Christian Schubart's Ideen zu einer Aesthetik der Tonkunst (1806) translated by Rita Steblin in A History of Key Characteristics in the 18th and Early 19th Centuries. UMI Research Press (1983).
C major Completely pure. Its character is: innocence, simplicity, naïvety, children's talk.
C minor Declaration of love and at the same time the lament of unhappy love. All languishing, longing, sighing of the love-sick soul lies in this key.
Db major A leering key, degenerating into grief and rapture. It cannot laugh, but it can smile; it cannot howl, but it can at least grimace its crying.--Consequently only unusual characters and feelings can be brought out in this key.
D major The key of triumph, of Hallejuahs, of war-cries, of victory-rejoicing. Thus, the inviting symphonies, the marches, holiday songs and heaven-rejoicing choruses are set in this key.
D minor Melancholy womanliness, the spleen and humours brood.
D# minor Feelings of the anxiety of the soul's deepest distress, of brooding despair, of blackest depresssion, of the most gloomy condition of the soul. Every fear, every hesitation of the shuddering heart, breathes out of horrible D# minor. If ghosts could speak, their speech would approximate this key.
Eb major The key of love, of devotion, of intimate conversation with God.
E major Noisy shouts of joy, laughing pleasure and not yet complete, full delight lies in E Major.
F major Complaisance & calm.
F minor Deep depression, funereal lament, groans of misery and longing for the grave.
F# major Triumph over difficulty, free sigh of relief utered when hurdles are surmounted; echo of a soul which has fiercely struggled and finally conquered lies in all uses of this key.
F# minor A gloomy key: it tugs at passion as a dog biting a dress. Resentment and discontent are its language.
G major Everything rustic, idyllic and lyrical, every calm and satisfied passion, every tender gratitude for true friendship and faithful love,--in a word every gentle and peaceful emotion of the heart is correctly expressed by this key.
G minor Discontent, uneasiness, worry about a failed scheme; bad-tempered gnashing of teeth; in a word: resentment and dislike.
Ab major Key of the grave. Death, grave, putrefaction, judgment, eternity lie in its radius.
Ab minor Grumbler, heart squeezed until it suffocates; wailing lament, difficult struggle; in a word, the color of this key is everything struggling with difficulty.
A major This key includes declarations of innocent love, satisfaction with one's state of affairs; hope of seeing one's beloved again when parting; youthful cheerfulness and trust in God.
A minor Pious womanliness and tenderness of character.
Bb major Cheerful love, clear conscience, hope aspiration for a better world.
Bb minor A quaint creature, often dressed in the garment of night. It is somewhat surly and very seldom takes on a pleasant countenance. Mocking God and the world; discontented with itself and with everything; preparation for suicide sounds in this key.
B major Strongly coloured, announcing wild passions, composed from the most glaring coulors. Anger, rage, jealousy, fury, despair and every burden of the heart lies in its sphere.
B minor This is as it were the key of patience, of calm awaiting ones's fate and of submission to divine dispensation.

Modality will be subjective for each composer, though many will agree that major sounds are joyous / happy while minor sounds are sad / dark.

The key of a piece or movement was important to the effect when composers were using Just Intonation Temperament.

Nowadays that we're in Equal(ly out of tune) temperament this matters less.

I play a little bit of fretless guitar and have studied Persian / Middle Eastern Maqam a bit, the quarter tones can be very expressive and emotional.

JimmyD

Outstanding post. I guess I know what I'll be working on tonight. I had only associated that sort of thing with modes but I see your point.

cheers
Talbot

[quote="MikeTalbot"]JimmyD

Outstanding post.


x2

To the OP, Im not that good with theory, but what I do sometimes is just make shapes on the fret board that might contradict theory to some extent, I think in terms of squares, circles, triangles, on original stuff one of my main things is trying to go from one end of the neck to the other.

Dont know if this helps, but try to think outside the pentatonic box, the other night I was fooling around with intervals, I started a solo in half step increments and then toward the end was spreading the interval to 5-6 frets, just an exercise in stretching fingers but sometimes thinking this way instead of strictly musical terms can yield some cool results.

I take breaks from playing whenever my soloing gets jaded, sometimes for a month or two and then when I pick it back up all sorts of things fresh come to mind, so if you are in a real rut, maybe dont practice for a bit and listen to whole other genres of music, so its in your head so to speak. If you are listening to just one form of music then your mind naturally takes you there, so change your listening habits, can help also.

Good Luck

Oh yeah as always thanks Jimmy for your insight, to the OP listen to Jim, he has explored more musically genres than anyone I can think of on this board, so his advice on this is solid as a rock.