General Music Chat

You didn't answer my question

Quite simply because I cannot.
Your questions were answered long ago.

You just lack the insight to hear your answers.

Ever read the book of Job?

There are some liberals (Bail-out recipients) that get highly offended and nervous wherever the word 'Job' appears..

Etu

Persecution was something Jesus promised His own we could expect. Martin Luther said, "A little persection is good for a man."

Perhaps.

Persecution is sadly, one of the signs which verify the Bible for the Christian. People resent Christianity and particularly governments, which is counter intuitive because Christians make such great citizens.

Persecution? I don't care for it myself!

Talbot

Etu

Persecution was something Jesus promised His own we could expect. Martin Luther said, "A little persection is good for a man."

Perhaps.

Persecution is sadly, one of the signs which verify the Bible for the Christian. People resent Christianity and particularly governments, which is counter intuitive because Christians make such great citizens.

Persecution? I don't care for it myself!

Talbot

hank you Talbot.
I would venture to say that "today's" Christian make decent citizens, to a point. The Christian of Older time was not a very nice citizen, nor a very nice ruling class. Hell bent on 'converting' the masses through any means necessary.

I still don't get this Persecution thing though?

Crunch

Since we're being honest I'll admit that I don't deserve the blade I have. Got it at a gun show, ostensibly for my son in law... It is not a classic of great value but it is a better sword than I am a swordsman.

Ultimately, I was a cavalryman, even when I was an infantry man . And Cavalrymen die with a sword in their hand!

Talbot

Crunch

Since we're being honest I'll admit that I don't deserve the blade I have. Got it at a gun show, ostensibly for my son in law... It is not a classic of great value but it is a better sword than I am a swordsman.

Ultimately, I was a cavalryman, even when I was an infantry man . And Cavalrymen die with a sword in their hand!

Talbot

hmmm . . my eldest brother was 17th Cavalry F Troop in the Vietnam War . . . they didn't have any swords that I know of.

Crunch

Since we're being honest I'll admit that I don't deserve the blade I have. Got it at a gun show, ostensibly for my son in law... It is not a classic of great value but it is a better sword than I am a swordsman.

Ultimately, I was a cavalryman, even when I was an infantry man . And Cavalrymen die with a sword in their hand!

Talbot

There is no shame in having a sword, rated or not. Having been a Marine that has trained on two Army bases-Fort Bragg and Fort Picket, where we cross trained with Army personnel, I don't know of any Marines or Soldiers that trained with their swords. In the field anyway. Cavalry are know to rate swords. I could describe it to you in short order. Pretty much looks the same as mine in my photo but the are not highly engraved such as the Marine NCO sword. Officer swords are much like the NCO swords except they are gold anodized. Aside from being very useful in close quarters battle being the last restraint before hand to hand combat, you don't run out of sword like you do bullets. Historically though, they were used by commanders to lead a charge when the battlefield was too loud to hear the commanders vocal commands. Hence, the gold which signifies commander- also making his charge a lawful order. An NCO's sword makes it a direct order. Swords are nice in the home threefold: they are dressy (all swords), handy- they stay loaded, and you can put them locally in your home where it may be the last line of defense without the children blowing their heads off with it.

Rate and deserve I think in this case is two different things. You bought it, you deserve it. I don't presume that you were ever a Samuri, so I don't believe you rate it. Swords also have a built in safety feature. If you've seen the movie Saving Private Ryan, you may remember the scene where the German soldier is on top of the American soldier and reverses the Americans knife and plunges it into his chest. The handle (or pummel) of a sword is generally too far from the tip for this to happen. It also keeps your attacker at twice an arms length from you. In home defense you don't have to worry about bullets going through walls endangering your family to friendly fire. A tip bout your Katana, you can take it to a reputable recycler or metal processor and probably at little or no charge they can use (if they have one) an atomic analyzer to give you an idea of it's tensil strength. You've seen Johnny Depp holding the useless broken sword against his foe in Pirates Of The Carribian.

Education and familiarization is the only true path to gun safety in the home.
I was raised taught at an early age to know and respect the potential destructive power of firearms. My father never had to hide his firearms from us for we understood and were familiar them.
I raised and taught my children the same way.
Even at the early age of barely being able to walk, at the range or home in the country they can see feel and comprehend the horrific boom and see the bottle of water or Coke can at the other end explode.

Forgive my waxing philosophical, and allow me to simplify.
We ( Christians ) were told to expect persecution for our following of Christ.

As far as Christians being good citizens or rulers, I would find that premise laughable if it were not such a common misconception.
Christians are no different than anyone else when it comes to being plagued by sin.
There is no such thing as a "good Christian".
Nor is the "organized Church" immune to corruption any more than any other institution of man.
( perhaps even more so as the natural suspicions of the average follower can be numbed by our wanting to believe we are some how better or different, which of course is total bullshit. )

Sad is the fact that so few grasp the concept of what it means to being Christian. ( especially Christians )
I am saved by Christ blood as a free gift by his love.
I have not, cannot, remain in the law nor free of my inherent sinful nature.

It is therefore preposterous to assume that " Christians" are somehow going to be " perfect " or for that fact any different / better than non Christians in our dealings with our fellow men.

I / we are no different ... only saved by grace through faith.

Amen to that Brother. Well said. As Christians the best we can do is attempt to live as Christians. Some are better than others. I will openly admit, I'm not one of the best. I will have my own sins to bear come judgement day.

Amen to that Brother. Well said. As Christians the best we can do is attempt to live as Christians. Some are better than others. I will openly admit, I'm not one of the best. I will have my own sins to bear come judgement day.

Christ will bear yours and mine for us on that day so we may stand clean before our Father.

AMEN

I have not, cannot, remain in the law nor free of my inherent sinful nature.

It is therefore preposterous to assume that " Christians" are somehow going to be " perfect " or for that fact any different / better than non Christians in our dealings with our fellow men.

I / we are no different ... only saved by grace through faith.

I agree with the gist of what you're saying but disagree with these statements.

First of all, there is a great disservice in lumping the 5 books of Moses into "the Law" and then saying it's obsolete. You could say it doesn't apply in the same way now as it did then, but every Word of God is true and it is a shield to those who put their trust in Him. (Pro 30:5)

When Paul says we establish the Law, what he's saying is that we do the righteousness of the Law. We can never be justified by our own works, or the works of the law, but that doesn't mean we are to ignore God's council either.

The word "torah" literally means "instruction" but because the 10 Commandments and various ordinances are found in the Torah, it has been translated as "the Law". That doesn't really give us the big picture.

I digress....when we are obedient to the "instruction" of God, we will have favor with Him and with men because we are innocent of accusations. So the point is that we don't establish the Law to justify ourselves, but rather to be witnesses of the One who gives us the "instruction" (aka Law)

I have not, cannot, remain in the law nor free of my inherent sinful nature.

It is therefore preposterous to assume that " Christians" are somehow going to be " perfect " or for that fact any different / better than non Christians in our dealings with our fellow men.

I / we are no different ... only saved by grace through faith.

I agree with the gist of what you're saying but disagree with these statements.

First of all, there is a great disservice in lumping the 5 books of Moses into "the Law" and then saying it's obsolete. You could say it doesn't apply in the same way now as it did then, but every Word of God is true and it is a shield to those who put their trust in Him. (Pro 30:5)

When Paul says we establish the Law, what he's saying is that we do the righteousness of the Law. We can never be justified by our own works, or the works of the law, but that doesn't mean we are to ignore God's council either.

The word "torah" literally means "instruction" but because the 10 Commandments and various ordinances are found in the Torah, it has been translated as "the Law". That doesn't really give us the big picture.

I digress....when we are obedient to the "instruction" of God, we will have favor with Him and with men because we are innocent of accusations. So the point is that we don't establish the Law to justify ourselves, but rather to be witnesses of the One who gives us the "instruction" (aka Law)

This is correct. I had to to point this out to a friend who over-kills sometimes on his inspiration (Which really gets embarrassing). He claimed that the 10 commandments were put there to remind us of our immortality. I had to correct him on that point by pointing out that they were not placed there for the purpose he described.

I feel I may have been misunderstood.

No where did I state nor intend to imply that the LAW was obsolete.

I am however no longer under the LAW as far as my salvation is concerned.

IMO to imply that anything outside Christ is responsible or bears any part of for my salvation would smack of " works righteousness ".
And as it may be true that faith without works is empty.
Salvation is a free gift and not dependent on works nor my ability to adhere to the LAW.

There is no good news in the GOSPEL without it's reflection in the LAW.

Both are important parts of the message as long as one understands that as a man, in our sinful nature, we are incapable of keeping the LAW as Christ did as a man.

Or as you so adeptly stated
So the point is that we don't establish the Law to justify ourselves, but rather to be witnesses of the One who gives us the "instruction" (aka Law)

I feel I may have been misunderstood.

No where did I state nor intend to imply that the LAW was obsolete.

I am however no longer under the LAW as far as my salvation is concerned.

IMO to imply that anything outside Christ is responsible or bears any part of for my salvation would smack of " works righteousness ".
And as it may be true that faith without works is empty.
Salvation is a free gift and not dependent on works nor my ability to adhere to the LAW.

There is no good news in the GOSPEL without it's reflection in the LAW.

Both are important parts of the message as long as one understands that as a man, in our sinful nature, we are incapable of keeping the LAW as Christ did as a man.

Or as you so adeptly stated
So the point is that we don't establish the Law to justify ourselves, but rather to be witnesses of the One who gives us the "instruction" (aka Law)

Sans I agree with you on all points. However, in the case of the friend I described earlier, I think he confused a 'derived observation' as a fact about the purpose of the law. He was saying the law was put there to 'remind us of our immortality" I was saying, that while the law does indeed remind us of that, it is NOT the reason the law was placed there.

The quote about being 'justified' illustrates my point. Like you, I agree that there is no justification except by the grace of 'salvation through Christ'. Many self proclaimed Christians seem to be convinced that they have to prove their own worth (Hence engineer their own justification with laws and subsequent practices) to make it... But, in fact, they do not.
In the mean time, for all the human frailty and flaw, the LAW was placed there to help protect us from ourselves, while we draw closer to Christ and God.