General Music Chat

Pure capitalism is no better or worse than socialism or feudalism, for the ppl.

I do believe that a carefully crafted balance of the best parts of a democracy (republic) & socialism, blended with fair (as in REGULATED) capitalism, with a touch of beneficent dictatorship is probably the best way to go, for a good society. We have gotten far too deeply entrenched in the thought that the "free market" will save us all, when that is obviously NOT gonna happen.

The more free we make the market, the more we become ruled by those who would take control of the necessities of life.

Are you aware that every pair of glasses you buy can be traced to a single monopoly in the "free global market?" Try to buy corn (or gasoline, for that matter) that isn't somehow related to Monsanto. Did you know that 85% of all credit card transactions in the WORLD are processed through a single American company?

These co's can destroy all competition. They can afford to take a loss in your neighborhood, while jacking up prices to more than cover those losses in mine.

Look at the price gouging that takes place every year in your gas prices, in late May & late November. Do these entities have any real competition?

Some American pharmaceutical co's get over a 2,000% profit margin on their meds that are necessary for some ppl. Those prices are regulated in other countries.

Free markets make us all slaves to their whims. There MUST be regulation, to protect the ppl, & to assure a "fair" marketplace, & jobs for the ppl that provide a decent living.

Imho, some very "progressive" thinking needs to take place to solve our problems as a society.

Pure capitalism is no better or worse than socialism or feudalism, for the ppl.

how would you know? We haven't seen it since before FDR.

I do believe that a carefully crafted balance of the best parts of a democracy (republic) & socialism, blended with fair (as in REGULATED) capitalism, with a touch of beneficent dictatorship is probably the best way to go, for a good society. We have gotten far too deeply entrenched in the thought that the "free market" will save us all, when that is obviously NOT gonna happen.

There is no such thing as "fair" in this life. What you are saying is that people aren't intelligent enough to make such decisions for themselves. We need a GOVERNMENT and POLITICIANS to do this for us?

The more free we make the market, the more we become ruled by those who would take control of the necessities of life.

In a free market, competition will arise if there is a profit to be made. If Company A starts charging more for widgets, Company B will sell them for less, or Company C will come into being if they don't.

When it happens under socialism/dictatorship you have no recourse at all.

Are you aware that every pair of glasses you buy can be traced to a single monopoly in the "free global market?"

So? I don't find the cost of glasses to be a problem, and there is competition that keeps the price stable.

Try to buy corn (or gasoline, for that matter) that isn't somehow related to Monsanto. Did you know that 85% of all credit card transactions in the WORLD are processed through a single American company?

again, so what? Do you think it will be better when a GOVERNMENT does this? Do you actually trust POLITICIANS to do the right thing?

These co's can destroy all competition. They can afford to take a loss in your neighborhood, while jacking up prices to more than cover those losses in mine.

and then another company figures out how to sell it cheaper and eventually takes away market share from them.

Look at the price gouging that takes place every year in your gas prices, in late May & late November. Do these entities have any real competition?

this is not a good example of free-market since it is artificially affected by government taxes and policies. Allow drilling and refining to go forward, and that price comes way down.

Some American pharmaceutical co's get over a 2,000% profit margin on their meds that are necessary for some ppl. Those prices are regulated in other countries.

that's because they are making generic copies of drugs that were invented and developed in the USA. They have a much lower investment.

But even that is a false analogy, since the FDA imposes so many restrictions on R&D that it takes an average of 10 years and millions of $$$ for a new drug to get to the "free" market.

When there is no free market, there will be no innovation or incentive to succeed.

Free markets make us all slaves to their whims.

You aren't forced to buy anything and competition will arise if there is a need for it.

There MUST be regulation, to protect the ppl, & to assure a "fair" marketplace, & jobs for the ppl that provide a decent living.

I'm not against sensible regulation, but I don't trust politicians to consider my interests above their own.

Thanks for the chat!

Your grade school economics don't cover the outcomes of the free market that we are facing today.

The reasn we haven't had a free market since before FDR is clear - monopolies & trusts are not good for anyone but those who own them.

When sneaky outfits like Monsanto get too rich, & they buy their way into gov't, as they have, they cause stupid restrictive laws to further their own interests over those of the ppl, the economy, & the environment. Ethanol is now in every gallon of gas, yet it's been proven to be a poorer source of energy that costs more to make, while there are also environmental concerns.

The naive idea that new co's will spring up to create competition just doesn't happen in real life, where bribery & hostiile takeovers & such take place to destroy competition.

Ppl are animals. They tend to think in the short term. They will choose the lowest cost for products & services without realizing that they may be feeding into a huge machine that would rule them by economic slavery. Huge corp's take advantage of this every day in our present system. Intelligence or the lack thereof has little to do with the reality of it all. WalMart moves in & the 5 & dimes close. Lowes moves in & the hardware stores close. They cannot compete with the super-corp's.

Do you really believe that, although it is in our best interest, no one has yet found a safe alternative to gasoline? Look at how public transportation was all but eradicated in the 40's & 50's by the big 3 car manufacturers in the US. See how the short-term planning affects us today.

Those cheap generic knockoffs are NOT what's being sold cheaper in other countries, yod. No, it's the very same drugs, produced by the very same manufacturers, that are being sold cheaper in other countries.

Hell, recently, our fine gov't gave the exclusive rights to a single co to produce & sell a drug that has been used for centuries, because that one co decided to do some research on it. The drug costs less than $2 to make & sell at a decent profit. Even figuring in the cost of the research, it shouldn't have cost more than $4-5 a dose, but the co has chosen to sell it at over $9 a dose. The article on that is in the archives somewhere.

The Polly Anna cry of "The free market will save us all" has never been true. Evil ppl take advantage wherever they can to strip the less fortunate, the ill, & the aged of everything they have to make their lives "better." Without gov't regulaltions, they have free rein to do as they will. Snake oil salesmen & other con men are the main ones that benefit from a totally free market, as mompolies & trusts form to further rip off the common folk.

Drugs are NOT tested as they should be - see the innumerable recalls over the last 20 years.We didn't see that sh*t 50 years ago, did we?

No - a free market would destroy us.

No a free market would enhance the whole world.

We do not have nor have we had any sibilance of a free market ever in the USA and quite possibly the entire existence of man.

It will happen, with the final reign of Christ ... but not before.

sans, I really think that the savior, if & when he returns, will be far more interested in other things than the market...but perhaps I am wrong...I woulfn't pretend to know the mind of god.

The global market IS free, & that, ladies & germs is a huge problem that we face as Americans. There are no safeguards against monopolies buying up all resources for themselves, or against trusts that would collaborate to enslave us with economic powers & total control of necessary meds, or foods, or power or clothing. In the "free market," these things CAN happen, &, frankly, the only safeguard against this sorta thing is the gov't.

I'm not an alarmist, but there are trends I am seeing that I find quite worrisome.

Semantics perhaps.


When I spoke of a "free" market in this context.
I spoke of a market free of restrictions & corruption.


There is nothing free about a market that is monopolized by anyone.

That is not freedom, it is corruption.

And nothing corrupts faster than government.

I guess were screwed.

Yeah. I wanted to start my own bank. But the the government stepped in and bailed out Citi. Now how the F can I compete against a large corporation that only relies on tax dollars to be stable.
I've competed with what is supposed to be my government, against cash for clunkers.
I compete with my government with HEAP,(home energy assistance program) I'm not going to wait 6 months to get paid $40 dollars of profit.
All the while I am being regulated, taxed, and told what the F, I have to do.

Lets put it this way, I just dumped $500 bucks worth of oil in in a tank of family that is really hurting. I'm not expecting anything, but what really ticks me off is that they were turned down by HEAP for what ever reason. What ticks me off even more is the fact that $500 bucks worth of oil would have actually cost $1000 when you figure in the added cost of big government.

Don't talk to me about government protecting the weak. Just do the right thing to help your fellow man. OR ELSE someone will pass another law.

Does anyone really think our government should guarantee radio play, a #1 hit, and total help if the band fails. This market was monopolized for years by the majors. They should go running to our government looking for a bailout, now that the playing field is near being level.

The point is what goes around comes around. We should have never bailed out ANY company to save a jobs. You only put off the inevitable.

You just nailed the problem right on the head Phil, except you come to the wrong conclusion.
Monsanto is not the problem. It is a large overbearing government that can create "THE LAW". Then you add in corruption of the few in power to seek control, such as the ethanol laws, you have opened the doors for the very monopolies you are so afraid of.
You mention dictatorship as a blend for a good society. WHAT? Leave me out of it.
As far as free markets, whenever you allow free and open competition you end up with choices. You just want big government to take care of every little problem you see. There's that dictator thing again. PHUCK THAT.

I'll take my chances that I can make the right personal choices of what drugs to be used, what cars to drive, what food to eat, what music to listen to, what guns to own. I do not need a government to be my dictator.

Even now, the largest companies competing with me are not my main concern. I provide a choice my customers appreciate over the big guys. It's my own government forcing compliance, regulating, taxing, and if that is not enough, outright competing against me with your tax dollars.(HEAP, Cash for clunkers). These are the things that leave me disadvantaged because of scale of economy.

Thank you, all you little dictators out there.

Your grade school economics don't cover the outcomes of the free market that we are facing today.

Phil, I've been self-employed since 1984. I've started and run 3 very successful businesses and half a dozen successful bands in that time.

how about you? What is your background in knowing what it takes to run a business in the free-market?

When sneaky outfits like Monsanto get too rich,

"too" rich? That sounds like pure envy. How does someone get "too" rich?

But you're making a case based on extreme examples of businesses.

So to point out how ridiculous it is, I'll make the case using extreme examples of government.

Pol Pot, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Castro...shall I continue??

You left out Soros ... whom is the real president of the USA.
Not that basketball and golf playing puppet.

You cannot be too rich.

But there is a difference in a right profit ... and the corruption that occurs when one is consumed by greed.

Attacking others who have made money simply displays the character flaws of greed and envy in the person doing the attacking. God makes both the evil and the godly to prosper as He sees fit. So you are essentially condemning God for the decisions that He has made concerning His authority. It is far better to be poor and content than to envy the wealth God has given to others.

Isa 45:7 I am the giver of light and the maker of the dark; causing blessing, and sending troubles; I am the Lord, who does all these things.

For those who believe.