United States

what I'm talking about is the fact that I recently started creating a new band, and can't find a drummer who wants to be paid like everyone else, my problem is,all drummers i come into contact with seem to want to be paid before the band has even gotten off the ground, this isn't an easy industry to get into, with a band on every street in every neighborhood who wants to make i in music, not every band is going to make it big in music. Me personally, I don't have cash at my leisure to hire somebody who thinks their the most important part of any band, now as I'm not saying their not important, as all parts of the band has their reasons to be there, I'm saying if were not making money, why should the drummer be paid just to walk into the practice room.Yeah I'm sure its a real pain in the ass to carry your equipment around, but everyone has equipment to carry, and trust me and 400 pound amp is no easier to transport then a drum kit, in fact, i've done both, and i have to say the drums were easier to get in and out of a car, and also easier to maneuver. And If there are people like me, who have a drum kit available at the practice point for new drummers, then their not carrying a damn thing, their just driving to practice, and I'm aware of gas being expensive, but thats a risk you take when wanting to be a musician, its all about putting out money first, and getting what you put in and lots more when the time comes, It takes money to make money, especially in the music industry

Well, I don't disagree with the points... It sounds like such a drummer maybe has a {Prima-Dona} complex. I would tell the guy ...if his name aint in the hall of fame right now, then the fastest solution he has to get there is to tell him to "shaddup and start drummin'

Personally....I have answered many craigslist ads for "NEED DRUMMER" and picked up some good sub work in and around town....even referred some of the gigs to other drummer colleagues of mine and we were all paid. (so was everyone else in the group). I am not at all interested in playing for free. Ever.... really..... unless it's for educational purposes at a local school (which I do 3 or 4 times a year).

I play drums for a living.....and can understand why someone like myself wouldn't want to be involved in your project. Don't take it personally.

That being said....I "get" your situation and believe you have every right to be irritated/frustrated about it. I'm not sure if it's fair to be upset with anyone that wants to be paid for their work - whatever it is or what instrument they play.

I wouldn't think that you'd need to have "full-time" musicians to make your project fly. ("Original" projects are like BBQ sauces to me....it seems everyone has the next best thing). However.....in any situation....there should be a common conviction or goal. If everyone doesn't share your passion - you could be wasting your time regardless if you are paying them or not.

However...as good as your project may be......Passion doesn't slide cheeseburgers under my front door for my family to eat.

I'm sure you'll find someone - but you may be looking in the wrong direction for a drummer. Keep your chin up and you'll find the right piece of your puzzle.

But don't blame all the drummers out there.

Personally....I have answered many craigslist ads for "NEED DRUMMER" and picked up some good sub work in and around town....even referred some of the gigs to other drummer colleagues of mine and we were all paid. (so was everyone else in the group). I am not at all interested in playing for free. Ever.... really..... unless it's for educational purposes at a local school (which I do 3 or 4 times a year).

I play drums for a living.....and can understand why someone like myself wouldn't want to be involved in your project. Don't take it personally.

That being said....I "get" your situation and believe you have every right to be irritated/frustrated about it. I'm not sure if it's fair to be upset with anyone that wants to be paid for their work - whatever it is or what instrument they play.

I wouldn't think that you'd need to have "full-time" musicians to make your project fly. ("Original" projects are like BBQ sauces to me....it seems everyone has the next best thing). However.....in any situation....there should be a common conviction or goal. If everyone doesn't share your passion - you could be wasting your time regardless if you are paying them or not.

However...as good as your project may be......Passion doesn't slide cheeseburgers under my front door for my family to eat.

I'm sure you'll find someone - but you may be looking in the wrong direction for a drummer. Keep your chin up and you'll find the right piece of your puzzle.

But don't blame all the drummers out there.

Therein lies the dilemma... If a drummer (or any other musician) demands to get paid, certainly its not unreasonable. The thing is, under what context should the guy get paid? If you do Covers and you have gigs lined up...Absolutely you must pay the drummer...
But if its a "BBQ sauce' kitchen party , so to speak... its difficult to reconcile a payment . A reputable musician wins hands down... But you wont find reputable musicians on Craig's List. So, There is a reasonable assumption that such ads for volunteer work, won't pay (at least in immediate terms)

In the case of music, The BBQ saucers typically can only offer R&D/growth... Its not a luxury that professional musicians can afford to engage, when they are trying to feed a family.

So I would say, in an ad for experimental/ project stuff.. , probably should put in there, "You must be gainfully employed" and convey flexibility in your schedule/demands

One other thing: I have observed that if I ask for help on a song -by song basis...meaning not asking to commit to a beast effort of the whole CD, the responses seem to be a little more frequent and positive. It says to me that many professional musicians really wouldn't mind participating in some minor capacity. (After all, it is music and it is fun) as long as it doesn't encroach on the real jobs.

Seems to me it depends on the situation. I would never think of charging someone to show up for an audition or in working with others to start a group. But I have spoken to other musicians who have faced the same thing in regard to bassists, guitarists, and keyboardists. So, it is apparently a thing not relegated to drummers. It's a position certain musicians take for their time and "services." Take it or leave it, I guess.

If one wants to be paid for rehearsal, it's a sure sign.

Drummers in general aren't the sharpest knives on the table. If you ever find one that plays with real feeling and doesn't beat his heads with such force that you can feel it in your balls, do your best to keep him inspired and happy.

Still sounds like one starving artist trying to squeeze another for non-existant money. Perhaps just the difference of finding the wrong variety of musicians. Not saying they are wrong or bad in general, but rather, simply not the type to start a band with.

I suppose the question should be more along the lines of who's responsible for paying who, since in reality, we'd all like to be paid and we'd all like to say it's what we do for a living, ignoring the real-world commonality of musicians having to work day-jobs to pay the bills until they build up their own success.

I would love to keep up with everyones demands, I'm a reasonable person, paying my fellow musicians if I had the money to do so wouldn't be completely wrong if it came to that being my only option, but I'm not paying anybody before were making money, What I'm referring to is the fact that I have talked to many musicians who claim to love the business and who really want to make a living off it, but only the drummers want to be paid to even agree to show up to see what the bands got to offer, and so far only the some drummers demand that the band already has songs to record or gigs ready to be played. I don't disagree with a man wanting to be paid, everyone wants to be paid for their work, but thus far drummers wont even look your way if their not being paid as soon as they get to your practice spot, it ridiculous to think you'll always find a gig playing band without a drummer, most bands ready to play shows have a full band, so sometimes you need to suck it up and play with a band whose not exactly ready yet, but will be with the right people working at it, I'm in no position to hand out cash for people who want to be paid before I'm making money with it, will a person be paid equally for making the band what it is when I'm playing shows, of course that person will be, but will he be paid for walking through my front door before songs are written or hes even drumming yet, no I thinks thats a bullshit request to make

In my opinion, when you are in a BAND, everyone gets treated ( or should) get treated equally. period.
No one player is better than the other.

This raises another question that I have... How does it work, if you have a songwriter writing all the hits, and the rest of the band contributes their parts, but would not have any claim if there were no songs to contribute to. Did Mick Jagger and Keith Richards get paid more than Charlie Watts (who never wrote a song in his life)?

If someone is writing all the music, that's fine and dandy.

You have to remember though you don't perform it all yourself and everyone needs to remember it takes a team to make it worthwhile.

No team>? Then nothing much but a bunch of layering and perspiration.

I have played thousands of shows on drums and I don't think I ever got payed for a rehearsal. I also never asked for more than anyone else. There were exceptions when it was a hired gun kinda thing. I know there are lots of drummers out there who could and would play with your band. Maybe you should specify that it is a ground floor thing and that you are looking for some one who is only interested in the music. I do agree that many musicians, not just drummers, think money first. Just keep looking...and I might add that grouping everyone who plays drums, and then publically ripping us all will probably not attract a lot of people to your ad. Chill out Bro. You'll find some one

Oh.... and Mick and Keith would have gotten royalties as writers seperate from the rest of the band. For live shows I'm pretty sure there is an equal share. And there also could be some performance royalties paid to all band members for the studio work. Depends on the contracts.

Oh.... and Mick and Keith would have gotten royalties as writers seperate from the rest of the band. For live shows I'm pretty sure there is an equal share. And there also could be some performance royalties paid to all band members for the studio work. Depends on the contracts.

AHa! That makes sense! I have a drummer, and he has been very generous with his time and skill. It is indeed a ground floor effort. In our case, any revenue that comes in on sales, , he'll get his equal share (re: studio Performance royalties). But other royalties above that...would go to songwriter...

it was never my intention to rip all drummers, i've known some with quite some talent and never asked for a dime until money was to be made, Unfortunately the ones i keep in contact with have all moved on from music being their main concern, but the ones i have been talking to as of late. all want to be paid even if their not doing anything, and i cant just fork out money for big egos
and the writers get paid more or no comment
I writer shouldn't be paid more for writing songs, a non writer shouldn't be paid less for not writing songs
Its a team effort, if a non writer wants to start writing, by all means put your opinion into what your playing, maybe it'll be a hit, maybe it wont, a bands songs don't get played on the radio for one man's effort