General Music Chat

I live in Phoenix Arizona where the music scene sucks as much as the clubs. These fat f**k who run these nightclubs and expect band members to sell tickets to strangers on the streets are complete and utter MORONS BORN IN POND SCUM. You heard me and you know who you are! Got a problem with that? TIME, PLACE.

Bands are hard enough to just keep together as it is, then we have to rehearse and be 200%, play some toilet bowl crust open mic night and MAYBE get a gig. "You guys got a following?" What kind of ASANINE, STUPID question is that??? Yeah, I got ya following right here jack! Sure, I have 200 close wild partying drinking fans at the ready, whether a Tuesday or a Friday night, they'll pay your frickin' $8.00 cover charge or worse, TICKETS. I don't play in a band anymore, I record CDs and got a publisher. I'll fight my way to avoid the club scene - its a bust and I'm just passing on wisdom via experience; bands, don't bust your butts for these jerks. Or go ahead. Talk to you in oh, two years. See how ya doing - or not.

Toxic I feel your pain but much of it has to do with your location. Dude, Phoenix is where you go to retire, not rock out (why do you think Alice Cooper left there and came to Detroit?). We don't do the sell tickets thing much here but playing for the door is the standard if you do original music. Yes it's a lot of work and the pay sucks but you can't beat the rush of rocking a packed club.

Yep,
Playing live is a hard cold business world. It's all about supply and demand. If a band can fill a room and make the cash register sing they will find lots of work in Phoenix and make decent money. I have been to some of the watering holes around ASU that were hopping on a Friday night. Jimmy Buffet and John Mayer covers as I recall. It is what it is.

toxic as a business person I dont agree with you at all.

Clubs are there to make money, its a business, it doesnt matter how good you think you are, if you cant deliver patrons to buy tickets and drink a shitload of beer then whats in it for a club?

If you are going to get into the public eye you have to go thru the steps to build a following. Its fine and dandy to make cds, Ive been involved with quite a few projects, but if noone will pull money out of their wallet to buy your product then what have you got? A bunch of cds in a box that you basically have to give away.

To me live excitement for a band still is what its all about. Not that I have had any huge success's, Im just like everyone else on here, trying to find the easiest route to success.

Good Luck and Keep On Rockin

I totally agree...with one exception.....There's no way in hell I go out selliing tickets to my own venue...last booking agent that told me this, I laughed right in her face in front of quite a few people as that is just ludicrous. Pay me by the amount of peeps that mention my bands name before you expect me to pound the pavement selling tickets to my own show...FUK DAT!

Now that I'm not as pissed off as I was last night I can sit back calmly and take in what I've just read, and each of you have a valid point - to a certain extent. I'm a veteran of the Phoenix club scene and there have been times especially in the mid 80s and early 90s when this city looked like it was going to put itself on the map as a place you can rock but not really roll meaning get to the next level. I agree you have to get the hell outta Dodge for that, sooner or later. However, during the time I played in bands who did covers / originals or one or the other, the basic code of clubs back then was if the manager / booking agent dug what he heard on your demo or possible audition, then he gave you a spot during the weeknights and eventually things started taking off - and then he/she would place you as an opener on a Fri or Sat night where the additional crowd that had never seen you before was added to those who had, who also showed to swell the numbers in the club even more, drank more booze, and I KNOW ITS ABOUT THE BOOZE, and it should be. From there you monopolized (did I spell that right?) on that huge gig and so on and so forth. But the essential goal was to record and make a professional demo you would send out with pics of the band, clubs you played, the whole kit and kaboodle, and if you had the sense, send them to record companies who catered to your genre and were seeking new talent. Now you practically have to do it all yourself, that's my main complaint. And, whether its CDs of truly great songs, as good as Metalllica or Megadeth etc. or playing to a packed house, ITS A HUGE ROLL OF THE DICE. I'm just angry because so many club managers come off like "wow man, you guys rock, I mean better than average. Great sound, not too loud, very original blah blah blah then you talk out back after the audition and its like "call me or I'll call you". NOTHING. And this isn't just another club, its like probably the 2nd or 3rd best venue in town to play and you get the no returned phone calls and emails. Meanwhile some of the worst bands I've ever seen or heard are getting weekend gigs. I guess crap is king at this time and crap sells at the door and at the bar, it doesn't matter, as long as it sells right? That's why I'm putting my dice on the recorded product. End up with unsold CDs or a year's worth of gigs for nothing after the band breaks up. Pick yer poison. It was what it could have been.

Hey Jimmy! Always cool to get a few words from ya man. One thing I have observed, at least I think the percentages are correct, is there are not a whole lot of posts from musicians who reside here in Phoenix AZ. So that supports in some way your point about location, location, location. I grew up in London then moved to Freeport, Long Island and even as a kid it seemed every other house had something rockin'. Phoenix back then? A few ranches and coupla' horses with no legs LOL

Toxic I feel your pain but much of it has to do with your location. Dude, Phoenix is where you go to retire, not rock out (why do you think Alice Cooper left there and came to Detroit?). We don't do the sell tickets thing much here but playing for the door is the standard if you do original music. Yes it's a lot of work and the pay sucks but you can't beat the rush of rocking a packed club.

I think everyone knows how I feel about the current phenomena of club owners letting the acts do all o their work to make their money on entertainment.
Lazy, Dirty and should be driven out of business by the artists.

No Pay = No Play!
If you catch an act going along with the slimy club owner's plan (making a killing by no longer paying acts) then get in their asses like they deserve!

Club owners AND bands made money in the past... there is no reason other than the current trend of "profits over everything" for that to have changed.


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Toxic I havent sold tickets to shows of bands I was in since the 80s.

Its just when you approach a club you have to look at it from thier standpoint. When we got back playing again a few years ago I spent night after night going to clubs and meeting owners, I did get gigs in all but one of them in my area. It just takes work, if your willing to do that you can get work.

Good Luck on your cd, I think I said before i like your music sounds great to me, does that mean I would go out and pay a cover charge to hear it? I cant really say for sure.

In all honesty, and this is only because I'm a musician and we are definetly not like everyday people, we are TWEAKED and I am literally as I take meds for ADD and Chronic Pain so I'm at a real disadvantage when it comes to going out at night - HOWEVER, my band is currently in limbo not because of me, another member screwed up driving too fast and is too young to have the foresight to say to himself "I am a gifted drummer (he sure is) I'm playing with a bassist and guitarist / vocalist not likely to find again, and now I need to slow down or jepordize the band. But he did not, I guess he's growing up the hard way. But I'm WAY BEYOND THAT and can't sit around waiting for him. He hasn't called in almost two weeks so I went and collected my gear, lucky his little brother who knew nothing, was home. I left a note asking wasssupp??? Its like, dude, be a man, you have been so far, what happened? I think he's in so much deep s@!#@ that he can't face calling me. Its sad to see such talent go to waste. He's irreplacable in my opinion for many reasons. The bass player is just as perplexed. So there goes another band. Its like, how many times can you take this nonsense before you say "I'm done". How many times have I said that before LOL! The passion to play overrides all else, that's a fact. EVERYBODY SAY "THAT'S THE FACT JACK!!"

Toxic I havent sold tickets to shows of bands I was in since the 80s.

Its just when you approach a club you have to look at it from thier standpoint. When we got back playing again a few years ago I spent night after night going to clubs and meeting owners, I did get gigs in all but one of them in my area. It just takes work, if your willing to do that you can get work.

Good Luck on your cd, I think I said before i like your music sounds great to me, does that mean I would go out and pay a cover charge to hear it? I cant really say for sure.

This is why I will never play Club 910. I stick to places like Joe's Grotto where I always get paid and Chaser's where Jason will at least make sure I get drunk. (Ok, he pays well too) If tickets are gonna be sold, there better be a ticket office and online sales by the Venue before I move one single unit. Thus, the Venue of Scottsdale is one of the few places I will help sell tickets and still play. It's whole business plan is selling tickets. It also has several bars, and can cater if the promoter is willing to put down a deposit, but they handle all that, not the bands.

So, yeah, watch your ass in Phoenix.

toxic you have fire,thats good,you live in arizona that`s bad.your music is outstanding!come to LA,it does`nt get anymore high profile than this.you are wrong in saying that your drummer is not replaceable,he is,it is you that is the one that can`t be replaced.a friend of mine played at the avalon (used to be called the palace) which is right across the street form capital records,anyways he had to sell some tickets,but guess who was in the audience,lemmy and gilby clark.i did`nt get to see everyone that was there but you won`t get that on a regular basis in AZ.there were bentleys in the parking lot,oh and execs.my friends music was kinda country,but even he said that this is the kind of place you want to be at if you`re in a rock band.don`t throw in the towel just yet,let me know when you gig out here in LA i will come out and see you.

You guys wanna buy tickets to my next show in 2 weeks?? I'll send you my addy......Money orders only please..

don`t give up!

Good places to play have always been few and far in between, it seems. Bands like The Ramones and Talking Heads played CBGBs and Max's Kansas City because those were the only places a non-cover band could play at all in New York City. Metallica and Slayer played little punk clubs in San Francisco because no one in LA would book them. A lot of the punks got fed up getting screwed at many clubs and opened their own legit places like 924 Gilman Street in SF and ABC No Rio in NY. It's the same old sh*t, different day, except it's gotten worse since pay-to-play started happening. I'm not playing ball with the pay-to-play assholes. If need be, I'll stick to DIY underground gigs.