General Music Chat

of course pay to play is wrong but......should we look at it as paying for the chance to be seen or audition as it were for people whom might not ever see us at all.and i don`t mean hole in the walls but big high profile places.

Around here you won't get paid unless you bring at least ten paying people to see you. This is basically pay to play since your time and effort are worth something. But if you don't draw you shouldn't be paid.

yes jimmydanger i see what you`re saying.but what i was tring to get at wasif your band had a chance to get in front of some bigwigs would it be okay to pay.

It's OK to do whatever the hell you want to. But the record company model (A&R people, getting signed, etc) has been dead for a long time; DIY.

Here's one idea; If you were a fairly new band and you were to open for a major or really popular band and you knew 300+ people would be there. I would think about it because on the next gig you can say..Hey we opened for _____.

now

the ticket sales thing; NO WAY

your gonna sell most of your tickets to family and friends. If you don't sell all your tickets and 10 regulars show up.....You loose everything for nothing and for a band thats a big BIG let down. You could have been better off playing at the local swimming pool, or a private party at someones country home, YMCA, city permit to play at the park ect...you get my drift.



95% of pay to play is pure bull. The only one who gets anything out of it is the promotor.

People only have to hear you one time and the word spreads fast...good or bad.

Just one last thing

IF you pay to play.....YOU BETTER and I mean better have your ducks in line (entertainer/music and most important....sound)

Around here you won't get paid unless you bring at least ten paying people to see you. This is basically pay to play since your time and effort are worth something. But if you don't draw you shouldn't be paid.

We used to have that gig because the soundman got the first 10 people.... The trashy, sh¡t clubs play that game and we went along with it just to play on stage instead of in my basement... it worked...got peeps down there and got asked to come back and started playing other clubs afterwards....gotta sacrifice to get your foot in the door..

It depends on where you live. I played all sorts of bars and such, nice ones, but people just wouldn't come. They'd promise to high heaven but I remember gigs of seeing three people out in the audience. Ouch. I sell tickets, but I'm playing some big clubs, and when I mention the name of the club, people go "oooh" so there's something to it. Once I get a following, I can then go and play some of the free clubs again and see if people will come. But right now, I'm not having any problems selling tickets. Once you prove yourself, you can then negotiate getting a percentage of the door and such. But right now, any unproven band will have to sell tickets if they want to play a good club here in Southern California. It's probably different in other parts of the world.

Chaeya

It takes a bunch of faith in yourself and your music to understand the other side of this.
From a capitalist view, any venue large or small takes money to run. Record companies traditionally did the other side, promote, produce, promote some more, and invest in looking for a profit potential.
Unfortunately sometimes the music may not be the most important concern.

Gotta give you credit ,Chaeya, you're out there doing all the tuff stuff also. You are investing time and energy into what you believe in. You go girl!!!

You go girl? Watching a little too much Oprah buddy. A more proper thing to say to a fellow musician: Stay metal! Or at least Rock on!

There are two types of musicians; one who wants to be paid NOW and will play "Sweet Home Alabama" three times a night if necessary. The other type know this is a crap shoot, and instead look at it as their art/hobby/passion. If something should come from it great, but getting paid $100 for a night of playing crap is not enough for me to sacrifice my ideals.

I think you have to do what’s best for you. I personally don’t think you should play for free or pay to play. I believe you are doing an injustice to the industry and other quality musicians. When you really think about it, you are getting paid not only for playing but for the time preparing to get to where you are. The owners of these clubs are getting a free ride.

Remember that this is about business. "The Suits" don't really care about the music all that much. Can you fill the rooms? Can you fill the cash register? Bands who regularly do both get noticed and get lots of work. Bands who play to empty rooms or bring along loyal family and friends for support but who don't give generously at the bar don't get noticed. Playing high profile places like The Whiskey, The Roxy, The House of Blues are good resume builders but if you don't pack them to capacity with screaming fans it won't mean much in terms of music career advancement.

"The Suits" want to know two things: Will a lot of people pay to see this act? Will a lot of people pay to buy this music? Everything else is just window dressing. After 25 years these guys can still fill a large room and sell a lot of music... even cover tunes:
http://www.stryper.com/

LOLZ if you pay to play, you are DESPERATE!

LOLZ if you pay to play, you are DESPERATE!

Yes.

And then you have to ask "Why?"

Sometimes it's because you really do need exposure. You need to get your product in front of people. Cool. Pay to play might be a good idea for you then.

Sometimes it's because the band sucks. You've blown your chances in free exposure venues. Then Pay to Play is just throwing good money after bad. You might be better served joining a different band.

Sometimes it's ignorance. There are venues where you can get the exposure you need for free, but you don't know about them. In that case Pay To Play is just plain allowing yourself to be ripped off.

The key, I think, is to work out which of these situations you're in and take appropriate action.

so if you owned a venue, what business model would you use to get bands in the door? Would you say "you get whatever comes in the door, and I'll settle for what I sell at the bar?", or take a percentage of a cover charge, or pay the band a flat rate, not knowing what kind of draw the band will pull? Some other idea?

I'm assuming local / unknown talent in this question.

I don’t need exposure that bad that have to pay for it. In that case, I would just take my Saxophone to a high volume intersection and play in the street. There you have it, instant exposure. I’ve known bands that are constantly playing for exposure. They do two nights here and two nights there. But if you go back to the first spot, you will find another new band playing there for two nights. Live entertainment for free! A glorified open mic night. My suggestion would be to create your own spot. Create your own following in your own place (seeing that you have to pay anyway).