General Music Chat

I can see why some folks might support a (private sector) union. I wouldn't but that's me. I'd be doomed in that enviroment - I'm just an uneducated hillbilly who made good through hard work and if I depended on seniority and mediocrity to propel my career I'd be sweeping floors.

But a public sector union? Puhleese...Teachers are the least productive people in our country. Yesterday a report came out noting that 82% of our schools nationwide are underperforming. What a surprise. The city of Atlanta spends nearly 15k per pupil per year and graduates bozos. My church school spends 2k per year and our kids are literate.

Busting that teacher's union should be a huge priority. (and how many of them are even teachers?)

And cops? Unionized thugs with auto rifles and jackboots who serve the govt and confiscate private property to support their "war on some drugs?" Non for me thanks.

And while I respect the military (I fought my war) I don't really believe in standing armies. Keep the option of force in the hands of the citizens - not the stinking govt clowns. Power corrupts. Always...

I'm prepared to defend my country any time - but to put a powerful armed force of volunteers beholden to the govt hogs out there? No thanks. A citizen army would never have invaded Iraq - no dog in that hunt. Having a standing army gives the power pigs a toy to play with.

Do you really wish to be ruled by people who ENJOY power for its own sake? Not me baby. Remember, the marxist unions were berserk in Weimar Germany - just like Wisconsin. (and an out of control govt was printing money by the wheelbarrow load - sound familiar?) Hitler came to power because a grateful nation elected him for suppressing those thugs. I don't want that here.

cheers
Talbot

Mike - seeing as how the "marxist union" has given in to every one of the gov's demands, save the right to bargain for fair wages in the future, I'm not sure how that opinion applies. They agreed to cuts in pay, to reduced ranks, anything to help the state meet its goals. It seems to me that they have been more than reasonable. This new legislation will be applied to the private sector unions very soon, as well. Watch the wording in the bill they just passed. It's going to get ugly out there...& here...& wherever you may be...

It is not wages they are losing the right to bargain for... it is the perks as i understand it. (You know, actually contibuting 12.5% to thier own healthcare, 5% more towards thier own pension plan)

The private sector unions can raise costs of products and send manufacturers over seas. I have seen it happen in the unions that tried to force me to join them. The greed and demand by union leaders, shop stewards demanded that I slow down productivity because if I didn't the company would raise the quota of the work.......
We would strike at Christmas time, the busiest time of the year to hit production the hardest. It worked!!! God bless the unions, they ran all those great good paying jobs overseas. Therefore I have no problem with private sector unions.

However, I have no say as to how much these public servant unions can STEAL from me at every whim. Screw them and the horse they rode in on. Most public service workers are represented by the truth you witness going down the highway and in the performance of the school systems. Not? Then go down the highway in the summer and look at the 5 guys leaning against a truck or leaning on their shovels doing nothing while one guy acts like he is actually doing something.

Gos to any park in this city during the summer and you will find at the least three mail trucks hiding out reading someones magazines.

Go to the DMV and watch 5 people sitting around with blank stares on their faces while the people fill the office chairs waiting to be served, each have only one job to perform, and are not allowed to fill or help out the position that has flooded the office with people waiting for that service. Watch how those morons fill out the wrong information consistently. I had one get my birth date wrong three times before she told me she could no longer change it again in the system. This idiot had to be completely brain dead as she even had my former drivers license in her hand at the time. But then, perhaps she thought my birth date had changed since I last applied. These people are so worthless they couldn't hold a private sector job for over three minutes if their lives depended on it. If you haven't seen the high performance of this public union system, then you must be dead and can't read this anyway.

Go to a Social Security office. Samey samey. Go to any government office, whether local or national. All the same. A bunch of deadbeats raking in the bucks and pensions. All out of taxpayer pockets, with the ones footing the bills having no input whatsoever in the bargaining process.

Public service unions are a safe harbor for thieves, and those they elect hold the guns for them while they steal our money.

Yeah, I know, You probably think I'm against public service unions. Oh well.

It is not wages they are losing the right to bargain for... it is the perks as i understand it. (You know, actually contibuting 12.5% to thier own healthcare, 5% more towards thier own pension plan)

The way it works in Wisc, as I understand it, is that they have a total income package, & the employee determines how much of that income goes toward their benefits, like retirement & health care. These "benefits" are not in addition to their income, but part of a total income package that they distribute by choice.

Therefore, since these ppl have already agreed to reduce their income, the anticipated fiscal problems of the state have been addressed by the union, & the tactics by Gov Walker are simply designed for overkill. Note also, in the article, how the state will have the privilege to further waste tax dollars by not limiting the wages of the proposed enforcers, & remove the power of the vote in any area it may choose, while still allowing for the corruption of the "good ol' boy network" in assigning gov't contracts, which, as we know, further wastes our tax dollars, as it puts them in the pockets of the bribed gov't officials & their good buddies.

I like the Rep's description of this - "financial martial law." It certainly fits.

You keep going back to the MTA as if it truly exemplifies everything in gov't vs the private sector. Your troubles aren't the only ones around.

You have blinded yourself to far too many things in your "personal responsibility" zeal, which is a common misconception of ppl on the right who don't have a lot of $.

You're refusing to see beyond your front door at what's really been going on, Glen. You still think the old rules apply. The rules aren't being appliied at ALL to the haves, Glen, & more are being dumped on you daily by them....whether they be elephants or asses. one side wants to stomp you to death & squeeze everything out of you, & the other wants to keep kicking you until you cannot rise to stand anymore. There is no one looking out for your interests in our society - certainly NOT the mega-corps or the gov't they own.

The only one demanding more and more of me are steal and spend liberal progressive anal pores that violate the very Christian, Judea, Muslim , Law of not stealing. This is just a communist attempt , once again, to seize power. Power, is the ultimate goal. Not in my back yard.

The MTA is just a perfect example, were a trackman calls in a switching problem, A switchman has to be called in to reset the switch, but before he can do that an MTA electrician has to be called in to unlock the electrical panel, Then an MTA engineer has to be called in to access the problem, then the switchman is cleared to correct the problem, and the electrician is called back in to LOCK the panel. As a union employee each of these parts are called in not only at time and a half, but double time. If this whole situation only takes an hour,,,, They still get paid 8 hours of DOUBLE TIME. You can't see the waste that would put corporate America right out of business?



No matter how you try, how hard you work, or how inventive you become in your approach, "they" are steadily stacking the deck against you day by day, with misinformation & propaganda (that good ol' "American dream"), all while their favorite mouthpieces get really good wages to lie to you, as their masters steal your country & your very ability to make a living out from under you.

As it stands - your food, your clothing, your fuel, your very health & your land are all in the hands of ppl that want to enslave you - NOT just sell you their goods. They have what you need, & they want to live high on the hog because of it, all at your expense...AND they want to KEEP you from obtaining the slightest bit of control over any aspect of your life, as they go about ruling you. They will destroy you rather than give up one iota of control that hey've nefariously obtained thus far, & yes, they will happily kill you before allowing you any sort of self rule, either by withholding the goods or services that you NEED TO LIVE, or by doing it outright, & as their control grows, the cost of either method becomes more equal. by the day.

You don't seem to understand what's at stake, or what's even happening, as they whittle away at everything, with their claims of necessity & promises of a better future, as long as YOU are willing to give them more & more & even more of your time, your money, your freedom, &, of course, your labor.

You keep going back to the MTA as if it truly exemplifies everything in gov't vs the private sector. Your troubles aren't the only ones around.

You have blinded yourself to far too many things in your "personal responsibility" zeal, which is a common misconception of ppl on the right who don't have a lot of $.

You're refusing to see beyond your front door at what's really been going on, Glen. You still think the old rules apply. The rules aren't being appliied at ALL to the haves, Glen, & more are being dumped on you daily by them....whether they be elephants or asses. one side wants to stomp you to death & squeeze everything out of you, & the other wants to keep kicking you until you cannot rise to stand anymore. There is no one looking out for your interests in our society - certainly NOT the mega-corps or the gov't they own.

The only one demanding more and more of me are steal and spend liberal progressive anal pores that violate the very Christian, Judea, Muslim , Law of not stealing. This is just a communist attempt , once again, to seize power. Power, is the ultimate goal. Not in my back yard.

The MTA is just a perfect example, were a trackman calls in a switching problem, A switchman has to be called in to reset the switch, but before he can do that an MTA electrician has to be called in to unlock the electrical panel, Then an MTA engineer has to be called in to access the problem, then the switchman is cleared to correct the problem, and the electrician is called back in to LOCK the panel. As a union employee each of these parts are called in not only at time and a half, but double time. If this whole situation only takes an hour,,,, They still get paid 8 hours of DOUBLE TIME. You can't see the waste that would put corporate America right out of business?



No matter how you try, how hard you work, or how inventive you become in your approach, "they" are steadily stacking the deck against you day by day, with misinformation & propaganda (that good ol' "American dream"), all while their favorite mouthpieces get really good wages to lie to you, as their masters steal your country & your very ability to make a living out from under you.

As it stands - your food, your clothing, your fuel, your very health & your land are all in the hands of ppl that want to enslave you - NOT just sell you their goods. They have what you need, & they want to live high on the hog because of it, all at your expense...AND they want to KEEP you from obtaining the slightest bit of control over any aspect of your life, as they go about ruling you. They will destroy you rather than give up one iota of control that hey've nefariously obtained thus far, & yes, they will happily kill you before allowing you any sort of self rule, either by withholding the goods or services that you NEED TO LIVE, or by doing it outright, & as their control grows, the cost of either method becomes more equal. by the day.

You don't seem to understand what's at stake, or what's even happening, as they whittle away at everything, with their claims of necessity & promises of a better future, as long as YOU are willing to give them more & more & even more of your time, your money, your freedom, &, of course, your labor.

I I received this from a professor of economics today. He has a radio show and gave out this information several days ago. I asked him for it and he was kind enough to send it to me. There are resources listed that you can follow in this letter.

Samuel H. Clovis, Jr.
Doctor of Public Administration
Chair and Professor
Department of Business Administration and Economics


Wisc. Collective Bargaining Examples

Gov. Walker: Strange but true provisions of collective bargaining
3/8/2011

Madison—Today Governor Walker’s office released additional examples of how collective bargaining impacts government and how reforming collective bargaining can improve government. The following are some of the items contained in collective bargaining provisions:

1. Employer must provide bulletin boards to post information about union social and recreational activities. The size and location of the board is subject to collective bargaining.
2. When a local union meets the following conditions are subject to bargaining:
1. lighting,
2. vision care and examinations,
3. noise,
4. chairs,
5. desks,
6. footrests,
7. adjustable terminals and keyboards,
8. work environment design (wall cover, carpet, windows),
9. room temperature,
3. Starting of vehicles during cold weather is subject to collective bargaining.
4. Paid time off to donate blood.

Earlier today, Governor Walker’s office released some specific examples and new details to show how collective bargaining fiscally impacts government and how reforming collective bargaining can improve government.

A Year’s Worth of Pay for 30 Days of Work
Under the Green Bay School District’s collectively bargained Emeritus Program, teaches can retire and receive a year’s worth of salary for working only 30 days over a three year period. This is paid in addition to their already guaranteed pension and health care payouts.
At the average annual salary for a Green Bay teacher of $51,355, this amounts to a daily rate of pay of $1,711.83, or an hourly rate of $213.98. Since most retiring teachers receive higher than average salary, these amounts are, in actual practice, much higher.
Source: WLUK-TV, 3/3/11

Teachers Receiving Two Pensions
Due to a 1982 provision of their collective bargaining agreement, Milwaukee Public School teachers actually receive two pensions upon retirement instead of one. The contribution to the second pension is equal to 4.2% of a teacher’s salary, with the school district making 100% of the contribution, just like they do for the first pension. This extra benefit costs taxpayers more than $16 million per year.
Source: February 17, 2010 Press Release, Process of developing FY11 budget begins Milwaukee Public Schools

Almost $10,000 Per Year for Doing Nothing
While the Green Bay Emeritus Program actually requires teachers to at least show up for work, the Madison Emeritus Program doesn’t even require that. In addition to their pension payouts, retired Madison public school teachers receive annual payments of at least $9,884.18 per year for enrolling in the Emeritus Program, which requires ZERO days of work.
When this program began, 20 days of work per year were required. Through collective bargaining, the union successfully negotiated this down to zero days.
Source: Madison Teachers Inc. Website

Yesterday the Governor’s office released the following examples of the fiscal impact of collective bargaining
No Volunteer Crossing Guards Allowed
A Wausau public employee union filed a grievance to prohibit a local volunteer from serving as a school crossing guard. The 86-year-old man lives just two blocks away and serves everyday free of charge.
Principal Steve Miller says, "He said, you know, this gives me a reason to get up in the morning to come and help these kids in the neighborhood."
But for a local union that represents crossing guards, it isn't that simple. Union Representatives didn't want to go on camera but say if a crossing guard is needed, then one should be officially hired by the city.
Source: WAOW-TV, 1/27/10

$6,000 Extra for Carrying a Pager
Some state employees, due to the nature of their positions, are required to carry pagers during off-duty hours in order to respond to emergency situations. Due to the collective bargaining agreements, these employees are compensated an extra five hours of pay each week, whether they are paged or not.
For an employee earning an average salary of $50,000 per year, this requirement can cost more than $6,000 in additional compensation.
Source: 2008-09 Agreement between the State of Wisconsin and AFSCME Council 24

Arbitrator Reinstates Porn-Watching Teacher
A Cedarburg school teacher was reinstated by an arbitrator after being fired for viewing pornography on a school computer. The school district ultimately succeeded in terminating the teacher only after taking the case to the Wisconsin Supreme Court at great cost to the taxpayers. Source: Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, 8/23/08

‘Outstanding First Year Teacher’ Laid Off
Milwaukee Public Schools teacher Megan Sampson was laid off less than one week after being named Outstanding First Year Teacher by the Wisconsin Council of English Teachers. She lost her job because the collective bargaining agreement requires layoffs to be made based on seniority rather than merit.
Informed that her union had rejected a lower-cost health care plan, that still would have required zero contribution from teachers, Sampson said, “Given the opportunity, of course I would switch to a different plan to save my job, or the jobs of 10 other teachers.
Source: Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, 6/14/10

Union Opposes Cost-Saving Lawn Mowing Program
As a cost cutting measure, Racine County began using county inmates to cut the grass in medians and right-of-ways at no cost to the taxpayers. A county employee union filed a grievance indicating it was the right of government workers to cut the grass, even though it would cost the taxpayers dramatically more. Source: Racine Journal Times, 5/12/10

The $150,000 Bus Driver
In 2009, the City of Madison’s highest paid employee was a bus driver who earned $159,258, including $109,892 in overtime, guaranteed by a collective bargaining agreement. In total, seven City of Madison bus drivers made more than $100,000 per year in 2009.
"That's the (drivers') contract," said Transit and Parking Commission Chairman Gary Poulson.
Source: Wisconsin State Journal, 2/7/10

$150,000 Correctional Officers
Correctional Officer collective bargaining agreements allow officers a practice known as “sick leave stacking.” Officers can call in sick for a shift, receiving 8 hours of sick pay, and then are allowed to work the very next shift, earning time-and-a-half for overtime. This results in the officer receiving 2.5 times his or her rate of pay, while still only working 8 hours.
In part because of these practices, 13 correctional officers made more than $100,000 in 2009, despite earning base wages of less than $60,000 per year. The officers received an average of $66,000 in overtime pay for an average annual salary of more than $123,000 with the highest paid receiving $151,181. Source: Department of Corrections

Previously the Governor’s office released these examples of the fiscal impact of collective bargaining:
Paid-Time off for Union Activities
In Milwaukee County alone, because the union collectively bargained for paid time off, fourteen employees receive salary and benefits for doing union business. Of the fourteen, three are on full-time release for union business. Milwaukee County spent over $170,000 in salary alone for these employees to only participate in union activities such as collective bargaining.

Surrender of Management Rights
Because of collecting bargaining, unions have included provisions in employee contracts that have a direct fiscal impact such as not allowing management to schedule workers based on operational needs and requiring notice and approval by the union prior to scheduling changes. As County Executive Walker attempted to reduce work hours based on budget pressures and workload requirements by instituting a 35 hour work week to avoid layoffs, which the union opposed. Additionally, the government cannot explore privatization of functions that could save taxpayers money.

WEA Trust
Currently many school districts participate in WEA trust because WEAC collectively bargains to get as many school districts across the state to participate in this union run health insurance plan as possible. Union leadership benefits from members participating in this plan. If school districts enrolled in the state employee health plan, it would save school districts up to $68 million per year. Beyond that if school districts had the flexibility to look for health insurance coverage outside of WEA trust or the state plan; additional savings would likely be realized.
Viagra for Teachers
The Milwaukee Teachers Education Association (MTEA) tried to use a policy established by collective bargaining to obtain health insurance coverage that specifically paid for Viagra. Cost to taxpayers is $786,000 a year.
Reference: http://abcnews.go.com/Health/milwaukee- ... d=11378595

Unrealistic Overtime Provisions
On a state level, the Department of Corrections allows correctional workers who call in sick to collect overtime if they work a shift on the exact same day. The specific provision that allows this to happen was collectively bargained for in their contract. Cost to taxpayers $4.8 million.

Thanks Slacker. I tried to post a response twice. I am sure I got censored by BM.

Think I wasn't? It's there site. They can do what they want.

I am on their list, what an honor.