General Music Chat

"JW writes: but I find a guitarist that plays a 4 hour gig and never changes his tone to be extremely boring."

Oh My tone changes.... did you forget you do that on your axe? Plus, like I said before, I have 4 channels with over 400 pre sets which I frequently change.... I'm not just going through a Marshall with one distinct sound... You wouldn't believe the tones I can achieve without the use of pedals.... Takes years to master it but it relieves you of all that clutter on the floor and lots of savings of 9 volts! again...I HATE PEDALS.... I see these guys that would never, ever be able to just hop on stage with someone else's equipment and just do a tune for the fun of it.... Learn to play without any effects....Master the art of just playing your guitar instead of depending on all these effects to mask what you actually play..... Sorry guys....been in a lot of clubs where I've had opening acts and just have to laugh at the gigantic bard of pedals they use yet we get a much better crowd response with my "very simple" set up! YOU CONTROL YOUR SOUND AND TONE...Stop letting the pedals do it for you! Learn to practice on your acoustic for hours before you hit the electric and use your gutars' maj=gic..use the harmonics, use diffrent picking positions on the bridge...change the position of your pick for a multitude of sounds.. change your tone knob frequently... I know.... I'm gonna get a ton of negative responses from you multi pedal effect users ....but ya know what? I'm gigging very frequently and coming home with a chunk of change each time without any pedals so I must be doing something right!

"JW writes: but I find a guitarist that plays a 4 hour gig and never changes his tone to be extremely boring."

Oh My tone changes.... did you forget you do that on your axe? Plus, like I said before, I have 4 channels with over 400 pre sets which I frequently change.... I'm not just going through a Marshall with one distinct sound... You wouldn't believe the tones I can achieve without the use of pedals.... Takes years to master it but it relieves you of all that clutter on the floor and lots of savings of 9 volts! again...I HATE PEDALS.... I see these guys that would never, ever be able to just hop on stage with someone else's equipment and just do a tune for the fun of it.... Learn to play without any effects....Master the art of just playing your guitar instead of depending on all these effects to mask what you actually play..... Sorry guys....been in a lot of clubs where I've had opening acts and just have to laugh at the gigantic bard of pedals they use yet we get a much better crowd response with my "very simple" set up! YOU CONTROL YOUR SOUND AND TONE...Stop letting the pedals do it for you! Learn to practice on your acoustic for hours before you hit the electric and use your gutars' maj=gic..use the harmonics, use diffrent picking positions on the bridge...change the position of your pick for a multitude of sounds.. change your tone knob frequently... I know.... I'm gonna get a ton of negative responses from you multi pedal effect users ....but ya know what? I'm gigging very frequently and coming home with a chunk of change each time without any pedals so I must be doing something right!

I'm not saying there's a right or wrong way to play. Bottom line in guitar tone is the right guitar through the right amp and how you use it. But, pedals are fun. In and of themselves I can have a blast just playing noise through pedals and trying stuff out. Plugging things into 'em they weren't designed for can create some interesting sounds. But, I go all over the place in music. I don't just play straight rock / pop formulas.

(Sigh) If something works for you, then do it, why does it have to transcend as a rule for everyone else or effect the level of musicianship of another person, Crip?

Cisco has effects, but like JW said, when you play a bunch of different songs, they're for ambient mood and if you know how to use them and what you're doing, then it works. When you're in a cover band, people like when you sound close to the original song as possible. Most people in the audience don't know the difference between a good guitar player and a bad one because most of them don't play.

Cisco has (not necessarily in any particular order):

The Gig-FX MegaWah, the Korg GX1, the Roland Compressor, a Roland Delay, and a Roland PowerPedal with the Brace Wireless connection, plus we have the Line 6 pod. The Korg GX1 is programmable.

This is what he has to say on the subject:

"Tube amp is great for a warm rhythms and saturation of sound going out to the audience. The Korg GX1 allows certain nuances and versatility in style that you can't get out of an amp alone. It's like having the sound of different amps as well as different pedals, plus I can add my delay separately to give me a little slapback. The compressor is just to give me a dramatic change in levels. Being that I play a lot of covers, I like that I can get a Hendrix sound, a Stevie Ray sound to Steve Vai or even Ernie Isley. I can go from rich tone blues to the dramatic virtuoso soloing at the touch. The Mega-Wah gives me a synthesizer moog sound as well as a volume pedal as well as a cry baby wah wah all in one pedal."


Chaeya[/i]

Absolutely! Do what works for you. This guy has managed to make a buck or two using lots of effects. He probably has sold more records and filled more stadiums than most of us as well. An open mind is a good thing:
http://u2edgefiles.tripod.com/id6.html

Screw all the effects! I just have 4 channels pre-set in my amp and I get away with all night gigs with just: Clean, Overdrive, Overdrive with reverb (for leads) and a little crunch with a touch of chorus for certain chord structures..... I find a lot of guitarists depend on a ton of effects for each and every song and honestly sound like sh¡t if they had to play straight.. If I want certain effects once in a blue moon(flange, echo, phase,etc..) I manually go over to my amp and program it in for a few bars but basically, Im a clean and dirty player! I hate hearing a million effects all night... Show your true talents without all the fluff!

Crip I'm with you all the way on this one.

John you are an exceptional player that keeps hiding behind BS. You are not a BS guy. You shared some of your material and heartfelt original IDEAS. they were amazing. You bring up ideas that back up your understanding of guitar playing that go WAY beyond plugging in another pedal to make you fit in. Please take this as a compliment, you have reached a point , you should be taking more freedom.

Pedals remind me of the kid who sold his Marshall and bought a peavey. Then he bought one pedal after another until he was happy with the sound.
Sounded just like a Marshall...

sorry folks... whatever I'm doing is working for me.... just the basics and a fukkin' kickass gig! Again... enough of the fluff!

Let's all stop playing and do the "PEDAL STOMP"!

To each to his own. For a lot of musicians pedals become a crutch to squeeze them through when they don't have the licks. But I understand that if you are doing covers and want to sound like the original recording, given you can pull off the finger work, then I think they are fine. In my observation the beginner uses pedals far more than a more advanced musician.

As far as being boring if you don't use a myriad of tones... I have listened to pickers that play "F" hole and flat top guitars without anything other than talent. And I was mesmerized by some of them. Same tone? Yeah, pretty much. But they were far from boring to me. If a picker can't hold my interest without FX, they sure can't hold my interest by stomping on a box.

With a little practice you can get a lot of different sounds simply by varying your picking distance from the bridge, palming some notes, using various finger and picking techniques and so on. You can get so many tones just with touch alone if you work at it.

Most of the old jazz masters only use touch for tonal emphasis. If you have a big enough bag of tricks like those guys do, you aren't ever going to sound boring even if you never change tone. It is their playing that is is captivating and awe inspiring to me.
I was just listening to one of my favorite pickers a while ago, Danny Gatton. His tone remains pretty much consistent all the way through. Gritty for the faster stuff, and relatively mellow for the smoother songs. No FX other than a wee bit of overdriven amp. And if he couldn't hold someones attention they must be dead. I didn't like his tone, but I love what he does with it. For me it's technique and taste that make the picker stand out.

But I also know musicians with dozens of FX. And they are pretty much used on every song. But they still sound good, but only if they are good players.
It all boils down to what ever trips your trigger. Some play FX. Some play guitar with some FX. Some just play. It's all good when it's good.

Hello friends! Great thread by the way!

I am currently using a rack-mount TC Electronics Effects module for: Reverb, Delay, Tremolo and Harmonization and loving it. There was a period when I stopped using effects and distortion to focus on my accuracy, speed and delivery. Wanted to hear every mistake coming out of my fingers. I have always believed that true tone had to come from the source, which is your heart, mind and hands. Now that I feel more comfortable with my chops, I am able to employ all my favorite effects again, but with better feel and delivery. Effects are for expression, have to think of these as tools. Some artists can chose not to use them and it works out for them.

How about "Ill Effects" for a band name? Or NilNullNadaZipZeroBlank?

To me this is just another "apples vs oranges" debate. To the naysayers...I LIKE fluff. Used properly by cats that can actually PLAY I find effects to be extremely enjoyable to listen to. Hendrix, Gilmour, Fripp, Huw Loyd Langton, Steve Hillage and others all used copious amounts of fx. I wouldn't call their work fluff or and I certainly wouldn't say they used effects as a crutch. I find it amusing that someone wearing a Led Zeppelin t-shirt would so totally dismiss fx. Page used lots of 'em! That being said, they are by no means a necessity to me as either a listener or a player. I own buttzillions of fx pedals, rack gear and VST plugins, (I helped design Peavey's ReValver). But just because I have them, (and LOVE them), doesn't mean I NEED them or always USE them. In fact, I play without them more often than not. BUT sometimes its not all about just blowing. Sometimes I want to paint in broader strokes, with more color and texture. Effects let me do that. Effects are just tools...like guitars and amps. They are simply more colors for my palette. If you only want to paint in one color that's fine. Power to you. Personally, I'd rather not impose such limits on myself.

Cheers.....Cristofe8)

Ok...Let me reiterate... I DON'T LIKE PEDALS.... but I'm not saying I don't use the proper effects when the song calls for it.... My amp has built in: Phase, echo (delay,sweep and tape), flange, and 5 different types of overdrive.. I don't abuse them but all I use is a Channel changing pedal to switch channels to get to these proper effects....but ...unlike the bands that I gig with, I don't abuse them...like I said before, I like clean and dirty the most but I do a million covers and let's say for instance I'm doing STP's "Plush" Of course I would use the chorus to replicate that song.... My point is that I see a million guitarists counting on their effects all night especially when they go into improv. I was invited on stage many a time and the guys had their Marshalls set up for just clean and dirty..I've done some fun tunes without ever touching their effects pedals...only their channel switch!

For example, here's me doing a Godsmack tune years ago using my built in:1: Overdrive, 2: chorus and 3:wah... All done by switching channels! (Singer sux, I know but he wanted to do a tune with us, lol)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHqn1vO3a08

How about "Ill Effects" for a band name?

hahah That's a good one! I will bring it up.

Ok, let ME reiterate "just because I have them, (and LOVE them), doesn't mean I NEED them or always USE them. In fact, I play without them more often than not."

If I had to rely on the built in digital effects in my Line 6, (or worse), modeling amp I probably wouldn't care for them much either. Don't LIKE effects? I don't much care for cheezy digital modeling amps. I'd MUCH rather plug directly into my '56 Vibrolux. My point is that it's ALL good. Guitarists have never had such a broad range of tone shaping tools at their disposal. If one chooses to be close minded and not take advantage of that fact it's their loss.

YIKES! RELAX DUDE! I have my preference and it obviously works for me as I'm gigging all over the place and the people keep on coming,... No need to put what I'm wearing, what equipment I use, or anything else for that matter ,down! I'm explaining MY PREFERENCE I'm not going to personally attack anyone and if you don't fukkin' like my "dislikes" thats your fukkin' problem! I can see why you're taking this to heart as I see by your vids that you choose to use tons of effects.. I'm not going to knock the way you look or sound as I'm a better person than that... I'm just sharing my preference and divulging the fact that it's been bringing me the extra $$ on the weekends. To each his own....The whole idea is to share our differences of opinions without being a total sh¡thead!