General Music Chat

Ya know, in 1921, Sears Roebuck president Julius Rosenwald pledged $20 million of his personal fortune to help Sears through hard times. (From the History channel.)

So where's that dedication in today's society? Why did the GOV'T hafta bail out the insurance co's, the banks, & the auto industry? Don't THEIR CEO's have faith in their co's? Don't THEIR chiefs have the gumption to get their co's through these hard times, that THEY have created?

Makes me sick to my stomach! I'll never use a bank again, or a GM or Chrysler product.

Just think of this a moment - $20 MILLION 1921 dollars!

Would ANY pres or CEO today make that commitment to his company? No, today, he goes to the gov't & says, "Help us or we'll put tens of thousands of ppl out of work!"

1921 was almost a decade prior to the depression. Times were good then, and a company that was in financial distress would have been allowed to fold because the effect would have been negligible on the country's economy. So the CEO either stepped in or the company folded.

No so 80 years later. It would not have been in the country's best interest for banks and major corps to fold, and this is why it was necessary for the govt to step in. We would have been vulnerable as a nation had the financial system crumbled, and it's likely the entire world's economy might have crashed. The GM that was reborn is slimmer, trimmer and ready to become a dominant force again. If anything I'd like to buy some stock and cash in on our investment.

Yep, jimmy, you're right. They had us over a barrel, & they knew it. They lost not a cent on the near-demise of their co's, either, while they donated nothing to the cause...all while the very reason for their dire straits were their own lousy decisions, in EVERY case I've noted.

They used to say "What is good for GM is good for America." I'm not so sure that that rule could EVER be held true, but I am a bitter man, at this point.

No doubt Phil. The execs who ran GM into the ground knew what was coming back in the 70's but did little about it. I worked at GM in the early 80's and know first hand, as did my father. It's almost like they knew the best course of action was to let it go bankrupt and let someone else fix it. These companies have armies of lawyers advising them every step of the way. Thankfully that GM is long gone, and the new company truly is reborn.

Will it stay reborn?

Will it stay reborn?

Almost certainly not.

Will it stay reborn?

I guess you haven't read my theory of all good things turning to sh*t.

Will it stay reborn?

I guess you haven't read my theory of all good things turning to sh*t.[/quote


No.. But I've lived it.

No doubt Phil. The execs who ran GM into the ground knew what was coming back in the 70's but did little about it. I worked at GM in the early 80's and know first hand, as did my father. It's almost like they knew the best course of action was to let it go bankrupt and let someone else fix it. These companies have armies of lawyers advising them every step of the way. Thankfully that GM is long gone, and the new company truly is reborn.

The pay for no work, endless job pools and lowest common denominator mentality of the union bosses and outrageous contracts had nothing to do with that. We need to look beyond the "Blame the rich guy" mentaility here.

I watched my Grandfather build up a union that then turned on him, stol his pension from my grandmother with thier lawyers and then turn American Can company into a joke. When he died, his pension that should have supported my grandmother was stolen by those thugs and since she was in the midst of what we found out later was a nervous break down, she signed anything that was put in front of her.

So we need to really look beyond the GM's, CEO's and find out where ALL the problems are. That is one place to start looking, yes. The next is, just like the federal government, cut the entitlements and hand outs. From the top to the bottom, stream line the machine. Get rid of anyone that will not work and help those who will work improve skills. Sometimes we must bleed before we learn.

Everything that could have failed without the TARP and other bail outs should have been allowed to fail. That is market evolution. People made stupid decisions, made stupid deals and hung on to stupid entitlements. That refusal to sacrifice on ALL levels should have been rewarded with the failure that was imminant.

I am a contractor with no union to fall back on. If I do not work I do not get paid. That is motivation to not only move my ass, but also to make sure the people I work for continue to have success. Back when i was a manager, if i caught anyone just marking time until it was time to go home, I educated them on the concept of a work ethic. If they continued that behavior I fired them for stealing the clock. There is alwys some way to improve yourself on the job.

Not a popular opinion, but it would make us stronger in the long run.

Actually, BB, yours IS the more popular opinion, even in these troubled times, which kinda shocks me.

I'd like to see some sort of balance, myself. I believe that there IS a need for labor unions. The co my wife works for stole her &17,000 bonus, that she worked for, earned , & was TOLD that she had earned, by laying her off two weeks before Xmas, & then hiring her back in late Jan or early Feb. SOMEONE needed to represent her, to keep her hard-earned wages (yes, I said WAGES - other ppl got those bonuses instead of her).

Every year, the bennies that she had when she was hired on get slashed. She now has a lot of time invested in her job, & would lose a lot if she went elsewhere, & the co knows it. It has been bought out by one of the largest global co's out there. Their profits are staggering! So why do they need to keep cutting things from the ppl who make them great? Because they CAN?

Yes, there was a lot of waste in the old union model, but let us not throw out the baby with the bath water. Unions ARE a good idea, & considering the breadth & depth of today's corporate greed, they are needed today as much as they were in the time of their inception...but with a proper balance between corporate needs (& greeds) & worker returns for their real labors.

No doubt Phil. The execs who ran GM into the ground knew what was coming back in the 70's but did little about it. I worked at GM in the early 80's and know first hand, as did my father. It's almost like they knew the best course of action was to let it go bankrupt and let someone else fix it. These companies have armies of lawyers advising them every step of the way. Thankfully that GM is long gone, and the new company truly is reborn.

The pay for no work, endless job pools and lowest common denominator mentality of the union bosses and outrageous contracts had nothing to do with that. We need to look beyond the "Blame the rich guy" mentaility here.

I watched my Grandfather build up a union that then turned on him, stol his pension from my grandmother with thier lawyers and then turn American Can company into a joke. When he died, his pension that should have supported my grandmother was stolen by those thugs and since she was in the midst of what we found out later was a nervous break down, she signed anything that was put in front of her.

So we need to really look beyond the GM's, CEO's and find out where ALL the problems are. That is one place to start looking, yes. The next is, just like the federal government, cut the entitlements and hand outs. From the top to the bottom, stream line the machine. Get rid of anyone that will not work and help those who will work improve skills. Sometimes we must bleed before we learn.

Everything that could have failed without the TARP and other bail outs should have been allowed to fail. That is market evolution. People made stupid decisions, made stupid deals and hung on to stupid entitlements. That refusal to sacrifice on ALL levels should have been rewarded with the failure that was imminant.

I am a contractor with no union to fall back on. If I do not work I do not get paid. That is motivation to not only move my ass, but also to make sure the people I work for continue to have success. Back when i was a manager, if i caught anyone just marking time until it was time to go home, I educated them on the concept of a work ethic. If they continued that behavior I fired them for stealing the clock. There is alwys some way to improve yourself on the job.

Not a popular opinion, but it would make us stronger in the long run.

Workers USED to be rewarded for having a good work ethic, taking pride in their work. That evaporated a long time ago as, again and again, the workers got screwed by employers. A lot of people still cling to a capitalist fantasy that sprang up after WW2, when the American economy was on top. Even then, it was mostly illusory, only benefitting certain segments of the population.

Capitalism has always been a Ponzi scheme waiting to collapse, even more noticeably so since leaving the gold standard. Communism is dead. Now it's capitalism's turn.

The problem stems from the victim mentality everyone falls into today.

The problem stems from the victim mentality everyone falls into today.

“How many times do you have to get hit over the head before you figure out who's hitting you?” ~ Harry S. Truman