General Music Chat

I am about to go into the studio with my band. I will be playing bass guitar on at least three songs.

About a year ago, when I auditioned and won the role of bassist, I was told that I would have publishing rights of around 12%. I was told this by the "band leader", who is the singer. He also wrote the lyrics and piano/synth parts. When I joined the band, the basslines were weak and lame. I re-wrote all the basslines. Everyone in the band feels the basslines are now very tasty.

Now that we are heading into the studio, the "bandleader" does not want to discuss publishing rights. He wants to "let the manager handle it".

Our manager is pretty well known, and has gold and platinum records to his credit.

The manager does not want to talk about royalties.

From the bands standpoint, I am supposed to just play on the EP, and see "what happens".

What should I expect to happen if one of the songs is a hit?

Should I insist on a contract? If so, specifying what?

Any insight would be appreciated.

I am not asking for "legal advice", just information and possible scenarios.

Thank You in advance.

I would talk to a lawyer whp specializes in the entertainment industry. There ain't a damned one of us qualified to give you advice on this. All we have are stories of experiences, if that.

See the lawyer. Make sure you are represented properly, & paid accordingly.

It sounds as if you are going to be "on probation" indefinitely, if what you claim to date is true, so it is in your best interest to make sure you get your share of that pie, imho.

I am about to go into the studio with my band. I will be playing bass guitar on at least three songs.

About a year ago, when I auditioned and won the role of bassist, I was told that I would have publishing rights of around 12%. I was told this by the "band leader", who is the singer. He also wrote the lyrics and piano/synth parts. When I joined the band, the basslines were weak and lame. I re-wrote all the basslines. Everyone in the band feels the basslines are now very tasty.

Now that we are heading into the studio, the "bandleader" does not want to discuss publishing rights. He wants to "let the manager handle it".

Our manager is pretty well known, and has gold and platinum records to his credit.

The manager does not want to talk about royalties.

From the bands standpoint, I am supposed to just play on the EP, and see "what happens".

What should I expect to happen if one of the songs is a hit?

Should I insist on a contract? If so, specifying what?

Any insight would be appreciated.

I am not asking for "legal advice", just information and possible scenarios.

Thank You in advance.

I can't speak from any legal expertise. But, if no one is willing to discuss the business side of your performance, if you're expected to to just play and see "what happens" you have every right to be wary. If they're avoiding the issue, it will cause problems later. Someone is gonna get screwed, probably you. I'd definitely seek the advice of an entertainment attorney before I did any work without knowing how I was going to get paid for it. No need to get ignorant or cause a fuss. Just quietly inquire.
If you really suspect someone is not behaving honorably, get your agreements in writing. It's not being mean or disrespectful. It's just taking normal precautions, part of doing business.

That is just IMHO.

I...can't believe...I'm saying...this...

But I agree with Mike 100%. NEVER leave anything to chance. Business is business. If they don't want to talk to you about it, that would suggest (to me, at least) that something is up. I've dealt with close friends, and I've dealt with family...and I've been screwed. DTA. Get it in writing.

It sounds to me that the band leader was ready to give you what he thought was a fair share-and someone talked him out of it. I'm only speculating.

Personally, just to be safe, I think that you should make a point of having this all clarified BEFORE you lay anything down. If you are just filling a spot, then you should at least be paid as a studio musician. If you're a full time member, then you oughtta know what your share is going to be. There's no reason why this can't be handled in a business-like manner, and if they get all butt-hurt about it, then I would suspect they were trying to get something for nothing. Trying out for a band for free makes sense. Doing recording sessions for free does not-the "try-out" period is over. Get your cash, bro.

Thanks for the replies. Please keep them coming.

I agree, this stuff should all be in writing, but it is not.

I risk losing the gig if I insist on a contract.

I do not want to quit, this is the best thing going for me right now and I am getting old (37).

Is there a "standard" in place for musicians who play on an album as a full fledged band member?

If a song has commercial success, and I have no contract, am I SOL if the manager does not "cut me in"?

This is how I feel about it. If you get a penny of publishing, mechanical
or anything else that is more than you have a right to. You are a player, you
are paid to play. I sing other writers songs that I am paid $50-$100 per song.
I interpret the way I will sing the lyrics as I see fit. That doesn't mean I
should own a piece of it. Words mean nothing. Contracts mean everything.
If you didn't sign a contract Saying you get a piece, you get nothing. If you
do get something for moral reasons because he's a nice guy consider yourself lucky.
Remember, the writer started with nothing. You started with a whole map of the song before you and just reinterpreted what he made.

Look around the room for the K-Y.

Or your just going to get it dry.

Can't believe you even have to ask.

I'm all the way in Texas, and I can smell the rats from here.

Thanks for the replies. Please keep them coming.

I agree, this stuff should all be in writing, but it is not.

I risk losing the gig if I insist on a contract.

I do not want to quit, this is the best thing going for me right now and I am getting old (37).

Is there a "standard" in place for musicians who play on an album as a full fledged band member?

If a song has commercial success, and I have no contract, am I SOL if the manager does not "cut me in"?

Without a contract, it's all "he said, he said." Um, I think the only "standard" in place is getting paid scale as a session player. But, I think you'd need something in writing to even get that. Like everybody seems to be agreeing on, check with a lawyer if there's something fishy going on.

FD - there are few, if any, "standards" in the industry. That is how so many many ppl are getting ripped off in bad contracts, no contracts, illegible & poorly worded & even illegal contracts.

There IS such a thing as "performance rights," which are covered to a degree by the copyright law. You can check into that, but it's a lot of legalese.

Get the lawyer. CYA

He did not get f**ked. He got what he deserved.
That is I hope he got paid to play his bass.

Why don't you write the whole song next tim.

Getting old at 37? (I vaguely remember 37 . ouch.).

From the bands standpoint, I am supposed to just play on the EP, and see "what happens".

I'm not even sure he was guaranteed payment for playing. Sounds to me like they have the option to say "Eh, you're not working out." and have no obligation to him at all (even though he played the required parts). The whole deal just sounds bad to me.

I agree, this stuff should all be in writing, but it is not.

I risk losing the gig if I insist on a contract.

I do not want to quit, this is the best thing going for me right now and I am getting old (37).

What you risk is not getting anything. You may get to play on the recording, and then they'll kick you to the curb. Without something solid, you don't know what's gonna happen. Don't quit...but don't settle for less than you deserve, either. And as far as the age thing goes, check out some of the successful acts right now-check out their ages. You might be surprised...

A contract on royalties is a very common (to the point that they are template) legal form. I've seen a lot of different variations on them, and use them to raise recording budgets (and Im not talking about cheapo, small, in-someone's-house recordings). If you have to continue playing and recording in projects like these, my advice is to publish anyway you can. Join a union, that alone will be a big help as far as getting this kind of info. Years ago, I worked a punk/country band who's bass player handed me a contract he had put together himself. I signed, we recorded, everyone was happy. But then again, I never had intentions of stringing this guy along. If I learned anything from struggling to make a living at this business is.......read Mike's Personal Signature, one of my all-time favorite quotes.

Well, it IS true, that writing a bass line for an existing song gives you NO rights to the ownership of the song, FD. It can also be true that, according to your verbal or "implied contract," you aren't due ANY monies for working on the recording, unless it gets air play. That is when "performance rights" come into play, & not before, unless I'm mistaken.

Well, it IS true, that writing a bass line for an existing song gives you NO rights to the ownership of the song, FD. It can also be true that, according to your verbal or "implied contract," you aren't due ANY monies for working on the recording, unless it gets air play. That is when "performance rights" come into play, & not before, unless I'm mistaken.

Well, he should be entitled as a co-writer since he changed the bassline, or at least as an arranger. Not sure about the finer details there.