General Music Chat

Au contraire, mon frère. The show, despite being the product of thousands of people, does outline a coherent vision presented by one man.

Well, I stand corrected! haha. So does it detail how to implement this utopia, or does it just go into what a perfect utopia looks like? After all, people are people - you're always going to have dissent to how society ought to be - what heppens to those who dissent? Re education camps?

People are incapable of the ideals presented in that movie because real life people are inherently selfish

I’ll remember to pass that along to volunteers who feed homeless people, firefighters who save burning children, etc.
People are inherently EVERYTHING. Any kind of behavior imaginable, somebody’s done it. But, there’s always a reason.

... that doesn't mean they are incapable of charity or helping others - but it is going to prevent the Star Trek model, which isn't a new concept at all. 1905 Russia had the same "technology will free us to live our utopian dream" as well. Implementing that dream was a different story, that required those trying to implement it to force it on the unwilling.

Au contraire, mon frère. The show, despite being the product of thousands of people, does outline a coherent vision presented by one man.

Well, I stand corrected! haha. So does it detail how to implement this utopia, or does it just go into what a perfect utopia looks like? After all, people are people - you're always going to have dissent to how society ought to be - what heppens to those who dissent? Re education camps?

I don't know what exactly people expect "utopia" to be. In Star Trek people still get sick, old, and die. They just seem to be past the same old petty bullshit. You can only beat your head against a wall so many times until you learn to stop doing that. In the middle east there are still flat-Earthers. Crazy, huh? Well, the whole world thought the Earth was flat just a few centuries ago. They'll catch up.

, and in real life, value is more than currency - it encompasses everything from personal taste to how accessible it is. Ever stand in line and wish you were at the front of it? Ever own something you parents gave to you that you wouldn't part with even tho it's as common as a pocket watch? Value transcends currency.

Therein is what I’m talking about. Eliminate false currency. It’s an illusion of wealth. People should value something for its own sake.

So now it's not currency, but "false" currency. What exactly do you mean by currency - let's get this on the table because you've got a strange notion of it - it sounds to me like you're saying we just gotta get rid of that green stuff - but you can still trade cattle for golden watches, or mow your neighbor's lawn for a glass of moo for your kids at home. Help me here.

- as it stands, there's nothing new under the sun - it's all been tried, and I don't see a better world because of it.

Nothing new? In spite of recurring themes through history, I’d say we’re better off than folks in the middle ages. Human behavior still has the same dynamics it always had. But, the emphasis changed. Progress was made.
“We have to face the fact that either all of us are going to die together or we are going to learn to live together and if we are to live together we have to talk.”
- Eleanor Roosevelt

... Of course we have telephones now. You're equivocating on the term "nothing new" to mean technology and standards of living, when in fact I'm talking about these "re-occuring themes" of philosophies that have not yet given us the Star Trek Utopia.

And when Eleanor said "we have to talk", was she pointing a gun? Or do we have a choice to not talk? I'm certainly willing, but you have the rest of the world to contend with, and last time I checked - there may be issues.

What does that book say utopia ought to be, and again, does it present a map for nations to follow to get to that perfect society? If not, it's no different than what Star Trek presents - the end result without the means to get there - and many a nation has tried making their own road maps thru history - but they still use "false currency", or black markets (those inherently evil people

Au contraire, mon frère. The show, despite being the product of thousands of people, does outline a coherent vision presented by one man.

Well, I stand corrected! haha. So does it detail how to implement this utopia, or does it just go into what a perfect utopia looks like? After all, people are people - you're always going to have dissent to how society ought to be - what heppens to those who dissent? Re education camps?

I don't know what exactly people expect "utopia" to be. In Star Trek people still get sick, old, and die. They just seem to be past the same old petty bullshit. You can only beat your head against a wall so many times until you learn to stop doing that. In the middle east there are still flat-Earthers. Crazy, huh? Well, the whole world thought the Earth was flat just a few centuries ago. They'll catch up.

Au contraire, mon frère. The show, despite being the product of thousands of people, does outline a coherent vision presented by one man.

Well, I stand corrected! haha. So does it detail how to implement this utopia, or does it just go into what a perfect utopia looks like? After all, people are people - you're always going to have dissent to how society ought to be - what heppens to those who dissent? Re education camps?

I don't know what exactly people expect "utopia" to be. In Star Trek people still get sick, old, and die. They just seem to be past the same old petty bullshit. You can only beat your head against a wall so many times until you learn to stop doing that. In the middle east there are still flat-Earthers. Crazy, huh? Well, the whole world thought the Earth was flat just a few centuries ago. They'll catch up.

Really, there are flat earthers there?
Where? Who?

Really, there are flat earthers there?
Where? Who?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wppjYDj9JUc

... Of course we have telephones now. You're equivocating on the term "nothing new" to mean technology and standards of living, when in fact I'm talking about these "re-occuring themes" of philosophies that have not yet given us the Star Trek Utopia.

I’m not. Technology and standards of living are a by-product of intellectual and social progress. A village of illiterate morons can’t build a personal computer from scratch. Civil rights don’t appear out of nowhere. They have to be articulated and fought for.

And when Eleanor said "we have to talk", was she pointing a gun? Or do we have a choice to not talk? I'm certainly willing, but you have the rest of the world to contend with, and last time I checked - there may be issues.

Well, when Eleanor said "we have to talk", WW2 had just ended. The U.S. and U.S.S.R. were pointing nukes at each other. I’d say that was a pretty tense period. Russians seem to talk fine with us now.

So now it's not currency, but "false" currency. What exactly do you mean by currency - let's get this on the table because you've got a strange notion of it - it sounds to me like you're saying we just gotta get rid of that green stuff - but you can still trade cattle for golden watches, or mow your neighbor's lawn for a glass of moo for your kids at home. Help me here.

I’m not saying we just gotta get rid of that green stuff. But, that green stuff is the puppet string that pulls society. You can’t cut that string until society is ready to let go of it. It won’t be ready to let go of it until it matures and some conditions are met. That takes time. It doesn’t just happen overnight, “Abracadabra.”

What does that book say utopia ought to be, and again, does it present a map for nations to follow to get to that perfect society? If not, it's no different than what Star Trek presents - the end result without the means to get there - and many a nation has tried making their own road maps thru history - but they still use "false currency", or black markets (those inherently evil people

“those inherently evil people?”
The book doesn’t talk about “road maps to utopia” or some such nonsense. It pieces together an ethical framework of classic philosophers, using Star Trek for examples, that any individual could apply to themselves.
I also recommend:

Boldly Live As You'Ve Never Lived Before: (Unauthorized and Unexpected) Life Lessons from Star Trek by Richard Raben and Hiyaguha Cohen
&
Make It So: Leadership Lessons From Star Trek: The Next Generation by Wess Roberts and Bill Ross

Really, there are flat earthers there?
Where? Who?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wppjYDj9JUc

"The sun circles the earth beacuse it is smaller than the earth"


That's just one crazy Iraqi debating with a couple of non-crazy Iraqis.
That doesn't mean that are people in the middle east that are still flat earthers.

There are weird views held by crazy people all over the world.

"The sun circles the earth beacuse it is smaller than the earth"


That's just one crazy Iraqi debating with a couple of non-crazy Iraqis.
That doesn't equal 'people in the middle east still believing thatthe earth is flat'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFyA8YG303k

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth_Society

He's not alone.

"The sun circles the earth beacuse it is smaller than the earth"


That's just one crazy Iraqi debating with a couple of non-crazy Iraqis.
That doesn't equal 'people in the middle east still believing thatthe earth is flat'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFyA8YG303k

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth_Society

He's not alone.

Yeah.
See? Weird people, world wide.

Maybe he could get a job hosting on Fox News.

Yet man is born unto trouble, as the sparks fly upward.

Ugly and cold...unfortunately.

Ugly and cold...unfortunately.

Yep.