General Music Chat

Me and the old man are butting heads again over the subject of vocals. I've been laying down vocals and he wants to drench everything in reverb. Reverb is fine, but I don't like a lot of it because it loses certain nuances in my voice. So he gets flustered when I tell him to take it off and to find another effect or to soften it up.

So now he got this brilliant idea to record me using two mikes and he takes one vocal track and put it's slight off from the main and it's a "oh f**k I'm lost in an empty room." He thinks it's cool. He asks me what's wrong with it. I can't explain it correctly and it comes out, "it doesn't sound professional." And then the fight started. I've done everything. I put on CDs and tell him, listen to her voice then listen to mine. He goes "she's got reverb!" Yeah, but she's not flippin' drowning in it!

He spent all night in the studio mixing, and I can't stand the mix of my last two songs, so I have to call him later today and use my "gentle wife voice" of telling him, "gee honey, you did a great job, but maybe we can use less reverb, let's get through this together." GRRR but my testosterone kicks in and it comes out "I hate this, take this sh*t off my voice!"

My hubs can mix the hell out of music, but I so want to call in another producer friend of ours and if I do that, well, then the fight started again.

So I'm venting to you guys so that I can calm down and get into my "gee honey" voice.

Chaeya

Forget reverb.
You want a very slight Delay on the vocals. Or maybe you can try a little dash of Chorus.

When you think you've got it right.
Try standing the mic about 10" from a wall.
Sing at the mic at the wall with your eyes closed.

You think I'm kiddin?

Don't laugh, Klugmo, but actually our mike is about 10" from the wall and I do sing with my eyes closed, except when I'm doing harmonies, I'm concentrating to hard then.

Chaeya

Shredd, we tried your trick and it works, me likey and me happy. Well, we can at least get a decent mix until I get it mastered. I'll post the stuff up later. I don't know if I have enough room to post a before an after.

By the way, me and the old man love your songs. We had them booming through the board. Sounds good. My hubs used to play in a Reggae band a while back.

Chaeya

Thanks Chaeya. Those are my first 2 Reggae songs I've ever written. I used to play hard-core and hard Rock before joining this band. This is by far the best band I've ever been a part of. Last night we were scheduled to play for an hour. We stretched it to an 1 1/2 (last band of the night). But the crowd wouldn't let us leave the stage.. 6 encores and 45 minutes later they were still yelling for more after we'd been playing over 2 hrs.. We really didn't know what to do. Hahaha. Finally an MC got on the mic and said" you guys gonna kill these braddahs. They comin back next week." Hawaiian crowds are the BEST. The roar kind of scared me a little. It was that loud. Sold a lot of merchandise too.

Anyway, I can't really take credit for the recording technique. That was taught to me by a guy named Elvis Baskette who has worked with Incubus, Chevelle, Story Of The Year, Three Days Grace, to name a few. So I do know it works. Elvis is a phenomenal producer and engineer. Some of the tricks he knows for recording and editing instruments are beyond my comprehension. I wish I had more time to pick his brain before he moved.

Glad it worked out for you. You know, there is a guy in your area who is a really good producer. We met him when we visited your area a while back. His name is Lewis Richards. He records mainly Reggae bands, but I'm sure he could help you guys as well. He has a studio in Costa Mesa. Check your local rags for a band called Stone Ave. It's his band.

http://www.reverbnation.com/#/stoneave

Check out his music. He recorded all of it. There's a chance he'll be recording our next one. Lewis is really good!!

Thanks Shredd! That's wonderful!!!! There's nothing like a 45 min. encore. I'll check out Lewis and his band.

Let me know if you guys roll through the OC or LA. We'll come check you out!

Chaeya

I sure will, and Mary too.

You know, the doubling isn't just limited to vocals. My guitar work is all doubled too. The solos you hear were done twice and panned R&L as well. Works great for guitars.

Sorry to get in a little late on the reverb thread. I think it is the most over-used efffect and for most vocalists doesn't make sense. It also depends on the song and what the over-all effect you want that particular song to have on the audience. I want my voice to sound as natural as possible, like I was singing in your living room. I loved the way the first few AC/DC albums sounded with Bon Scott, practically no reverb at all. It sounded like he was right there WITH you, that's the way I want my recordings to sound. If you wanted a song to sound like it was recorded live in a concert hall with natural echo then, yes add as much reverb as needed.

Aww Bob, you're never too late. You're right, I love that live sound, like I'm at the bar listening to the band. I had to basically re-school my beloved because we get a lot of guys in the studio who sadly, believe the way to a good recording is to drench it with reverb and delay. I'm not anti-reverb or delay because it can be added in certain spots and works, but the entire vocal. Yuck!

Chaeya

There's something to be said about consistency, as well.

If your vocal is awash with reverb, it sounds like you're in a tunnel or a cave, & if the rest of the music isn't there, you sound like you're displaced, or removed from it all, & there is nothing holding it all together if you aren't all together, ya know?

Not really, Phil. It's all in how you do it. You can take a simple line from a track and add delay to it and it sounds good, and it's all about how much reverb and delay as well as how it fits in with the mix. It can fatten up certain areas, especially when you're doing harmonies.

I've had Cisco take certain parts of one song and add a lot of delay to it because it stretches it out.

This is coming from my experience working with the producer back during my techno and dance days. He'd have my lead vocal and then we'd have a lot of stuff happening in the background and some vocals were drenched in delay and were put far in the background for ambiance.

My main complaint was regarding lead vocals. Like Evanescence, they have a clean lead vocal, but during some of the choruses she'd have a heavy delay on her voice. That works.

Chaeya

Doubling parts is an old trick, listen to "Hard Days Night" (The Beatles) or "To Cry You A Song" (Jethro Tull). It 'thickens' the sound without the 'lost in a cave' effect of reverb. But only double parts you can duplicate.

C a cheap way to double parts is pan the dry signal to one side and then send a delay signal to the other side ussually 5-15ms delay is all you need, you can even do this with doubletracked vocals.

Ive liked the lead vocal single tracked and then double track the chorus lines. I like for the music during the verses to loosen up some. When I listened to your tracks I thought your husband was a little to busy with his guitar parts. You have a very dynamic voice that should have a lot of space for it to fit in. Your husband may not like it but maybe try in your songs something like this. The first verse section just a spare guitar with a single vocal line, some slight reverb, and I mean slight. Then in the first chorus double a backup vocal hard right and left, then your main vocal stright up the middle, take most of the effects off the main vocal. The next verse let your husband add another guitar that wasnt there in the first verse and maybe double your vocal line there. In other words as the song moves forward every section add alittle more to build it to a climax at some point.

Anyway there are no rules to any of this just whatever sounds good to you.

Good Luck and have Fun!

Too much reverb is usually the retreat of someone who's insecure with either their vocals or recording technique.

I always adjust reverb by turning it down til I can't hear it and then bring it up a couple ms.

I've always thought of doubling as more of a delay that reverb, but it works great too and it's really all to ones taste.

But the more I record the more I find with everything about it:

Less is better....it's all about capturing a good performance.....

Agreed. Not many people can handle a dry voice. However I would take issue with reverb?
Sure if you going to lay it across the whole thing and say 'Job Done'. Dunno? Paying with it but at the end of the day isn't it about the song?
Soz, just askin.

Too much reverb is usually the retreat of someone who's insecure