General Music Chat

Ha ha, that song cracks me up.

I'm not knocking Joey here because he is a phenomenal drummer, but I was ranting about these things as a whole. I can't listen to Slipknot and that angry rage metal, jazz with schizophrenic horns, 19th Century piano banging, and Stravinsky, it makes me feel all Clockwork Orange. My brain drives me crazy most of the time, so I don't need any triggers.

I like this drum solo though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPldsOv5HX4

More cowbell!

Chaeya

Check out his Brand X work. I don't have time to look it up this morning, but there's some mighty fine STICK-work in that band.

Hey Phil, Brand X are one of my faves, but Collins was a bit of a joke for me, never did anything close to as good as his Genesis work, and was completely outclassed by Mike Clark (check out "not Good Enough" (see me) on Product 1979) Awesome! Compare that to the debacle of drumming by Collins on Nuclear Burn for instance, dreadful! Love his sound though : )

I love Jordisons drumming, but to say he is the best is nonsense, most influential? Maybe, they have a lot of younger fans and his style and ability WILL inspire kids to play which is awesome for music in general so i wont grumble : ) Better that than a fake hero like Cobain inspiring a million kids to play badly, least the guy tries to be interesting and push the boundaries of his instrument. Nuff said.

Some musicians push the boundries of their instrument; others use theirs to convey a message or provide an emotional outlet for the listener. Cobain was in the latter group; his music touched a lot of disaffected people and made them feel there were others who felt the same things. He showed people that you can come from a trailer park and still make it. To compare an artist like Kurt Cobain to Phil Collins is a pointless exercise. The great thing about music is that you can enjoy either or both; I know I do.

Yeah, it's like the difference between Andy Warhol & Rembrandt. One conveys skill, expertise, cunning use of color & content, & the other copies a soup can. Funny thing is, Warhol prolly made it bigger in his time than the REAL artist, with his cult of personality, which couldn't hardly be done without the use of radio, TV & film.

Artists use the tools and technology available to them at the time they create the art; who knows what Rembrandt or Bach or even Jimi Hendrix would create with modern tools. What is amazing about each is that they used what was available to them at the time to the utmost and created art that will endure for the ages.

Here's the problem I have with these things, if someone wants to be rated as the greatest and the best, let's hear what they have to do in other genres besides their own. Let's hear his timing on a complicated jazz beat and see how he comes out or a funk beat, some African rhythms or sit down at some tablas --- ooh, I'd be royally impressed. Is it just that my criteria for greatness is too high?

The public seems to think being a great musician is about acrobatics. But playing an instrument is about technique, timing, execution.

I hate contests and such for this reason. You can have guitar players competing and then you get some cat playing behind his head, playing with his teeth, but everybody will be wow, he's really good. Yeah, they have no clue that his guitar was all out of tune. Or some little kid comes along and everybody gets awed like he's a performing monkey and beat out guys that have years of experience. Yeah, he's good, but there's more to playing than just copying what you hear on a record. Let's hear you write your own solo, let's hear you improvise with a seasoned guitar player.

Contests, greatest lists, hall of fame, they are mostly about politics and it's all about someone's opinion. If I enter a contest it would be purely for political reasons of my own, not because I'd be a sucker enough to believe that I'm the latest greatest anything.

Chaeya

I kind of agree on the popularity thing, but NOT the genre thing.

If the dude doesn't like jazz, why would he ever play it? Or Ska or whatever OTHER genre. Some people like to spread themselves around, others like to perfect one thing...their true love in the world of music.

To me, there are hundreds, no THOUSANDS of AWESOME drummers. To pick one JUST on their technical skills is impossible. One who CONNECTS with their music is MUCH more important to me.
This may be why Lars got so many votes....he's SURELY not a GREAT technical drummer, but he SURE does connect with his music. Few if ANY put more into their craft. Jordison is the best of both worlds, a truely great drummer, and one who connects rather than just being a human metronome.

Here's the problem I have with these things, if someone wants to be rated as the greatest and the best, let's hear what they have to do in other genres besides their own. Let's hear his timing on a complicated jazz beat and see how he comes out or a funk beat, some African rhythms or sit down at some tablas --- ooh, I'd be royally impressed. Is it just that my criteria for greatness is too high?

The public seems to think being a great musician is about acrobatics. But playing an instrument is about technique, timing, execution.

I hate contests and such for this reason. You can have guitar players competing and then you get some cat playing behind his head, playing with his teeth, but everybody will be wow, he's really good. Yeah, they have no clue that his guitar was all out of tune. Or some little kid comes along and everybody gets awed like he's a performing monkey and beat out guys that have years of experience. Yeah, he's good, but there's more to playing than just copying what you hear on a record. Let's hear you write your own solo, let's hear you improvise with a seasoned guitar player.

Contests, greatest lists, hall of fame, they are mostly about politics and it's all about someone's opinion. If I enter a contest it would be purely for political reasons of my own, not because I'd be a sucker enough to believe that I'm the latest greatest anything.

Chaeya

I kind of agree on the popularity thing, but NOT the genre thing.

If the dude doesn't like jazz, why would he ever play it? Or Ska or whatever OTHER genre. Some people like to spread themselves around, others like to perfect one thing...their true love in the world of music.

To me, there are hundreds, no THOUSANDS of AWESOME drummers. To pick one JUST on their technical skills is impossible. One who CONNECTS with their music is MUCH more important to me.
This may be why Lars got so many votes....he's SURELY not a GREAT technical drummer, but he SURE does connect with his music. Few if ANY put more into their craft. Jordison is the best of both worlds, a truely great drummer, and one who connects rather than just being a human metronome.

Well put.

I dunno. A human metronome is a marvelous thing.

The best all comes down to personal taste, as we all know. For me, I prefer a percussionist to the average drummer, & I prefer someone who can switch gears in genre, because I write in several genres.

I think a great drummer is a guy who can lay off the cymbals when doing a piece that has a lot of African influence, or play very sparingly in a song that requires that style, or roll with the fastest guys around when it's called for. There aren't many ppl that versatile, but that's what I would call a great drummer.

The ability to switch genres is important, in that respect. Skills on the skins requires a wide range of learned abilities. You can be perfect at thrash, but if you can't play a quiet waltz, too, you aren't great, imo.

You can be perfect at thrash, but if you can't play a quiet waltz, too, you aren't great, imo.

That's almost like saying Babe Ruth or Wayne Gretsky weren't great athletes, because they only played one sport, and not several others.

Yes, perhaps it would mean you were a more versatile musician.
But if you KILL in your chosen line of work well then you KILL... no?