General Music Chat

I think we should all get payed SOMETHING for each show. I've only had the opportunity to play 2 shows so far (because all my band members except the one that lives an hour away are sorry as hell) and haven't gotten anything for it. Rush got paid for their first show in like 1968 I believe. I'm not certain, but I'm pretty sure that the modern music industry is complete BS. We actually had to pay $50 per band for the last show, that was supposed to be in front of 500+ people but only 40 or so showed up. Gotta hate the state of Georgia if you're anything but a country musician.

Just learn to say NO.

That requires ALL performers/musicians to be paid at least the minimum wage for EVERY musical performance. That must include the time it takes to load, transport, perform, load and transport equipment after the performance. A typical four set gig often results in about eight hours of LABOR. I'm tired of IDIOTS who play for anything less than minimum wage. It's not FAIR for those of us who deserve at least minimum wgae for our HARD WORK. In effect the vast majority of gigging musicians are working in a completely unregulated industry. It's high time for that to change...

From now on Bob everytime a person goes fishin in a stream,,, federal law will in the future mandate that everyone fishin on the same stream in the same lifetime shall catch exactly the same number and type of fish and furthermore this will all be predecided by federal law under penalty of death.

Furthermore, concerning PARTY BOATS,,,, when ever there is a pool for largest fish this said pool will be shared equally with everyone because under new FED REG 12 730C 51 sub part B :We as a fair social society can have NO fisherman going home feeling that they are the inferior fishermen that they are.

From this day foward ALL American activities will be socialized, EHHR I mean unionized SPECIALLY FISHING

Poor analogies at best. There ARE laws concerning fishing. First you must have a valid fishing license in the state you are fishing in and must abide by the rules and regulations of that state. Part of those rules is legal number of a particular specie of fish you can possess as well as size limits on a particular specie. Within the guidelines of the fishing laws I fish for recreation. I don't get paid for it because I'm not performing a service for anybody while fishing. Nobody is making any money off me (except the tackle manufacturers and the state via the license fees) while I am fishing. I fish whenever I want, wherever I want, for whatever I want provided all of that is legal. Performing in a band at a venue is a SERVICE that I provide for somebody who is MAKING A PROFIT OFF MY SERVICE. If you believe that performing in a band is recreation and you don't care to get paid anything then you are in effect taking money away from those of us who believe that a musical performance is a service. If you don't mind that a venue owner who makes a profit off your "recreration" doesn't share any of that profit with you then you are AN IDIOT. I'm sorry to feel that way but I get really pissed off at people who are giving away their musical performances.
Those party boat owners are providing a SERVICE for those fisherman who fish on the party boats. I never heard of a party boat owner offering their service for free. It's perfectly understandable that a party boat owner should be compensated for their many expenses: the boat, gas, bait, equipment, etc. They have made an INVESTMENT and should be fairly compensated for the service they provide. I would not expect to go on a party boat for free. I would also assume that the federal government would rightfully collect taxes on the income the party boat owner is rightfully earning. As far as the pot is concerned I do not know how or if that is regulated by the federal government. Those people who win money that way should report that as gambling winnings on their taxes. How the pot is divided up is up to each party boat I guess. It would be kind of silly to redistribute the pot money equally to everybody participating. (Communist party boats ?)
I never said bands and band members should be paid the exact same wage. What I am saying is that each band member should be rightfully paid at least minimum wage. We are making a profit for the venues. We should be considered overhead. When venues hire bands they should automatically INVEST at least minimum wage to the bands. Just like they INVEST in the salaries of the bartenders, cooks, waitresses, bouncers, etc. We are part of the OVERHEAD of the venue's business. I can argue until I'm blue in the face but for those of you who play for "free" and help the venues earn a profit and you do not demand your fair share of the profit, then you are in effect making it more and more impossible for those of us who simply want to earn their fair share of those profits... I seriously wonder if some kind of federal legislation concerning our earning at least minimum wage wouldn't be a bad idea

Bob ,your love of fishing ,mine too ,prompted that dig at socialism and communism .

It always seems to come down to people complaining about their own plight and looking for someone to bail them out. LET ME TELL YOU A TRUE STORY..

Back in the late 70s there were 12 million jobless, 17,000 small COs failed, we were in the middle of our first energy crises, and interest rates were out of sight... These four guys were working for this company. They didn't have union backing. They didn't like the pay they were getting for their contributions to make the company better.

In the face of total uncertain economic future this "GANG OF FOUR" had the balls to QUIT a CO known as ATARI and go start their own company, ACTIVISION. They had no working capital only their own personal beliefs and faith in their talents.

I do not know if you will see the correlation , but the bottom line is that if you want IT , WHATEVER IT IS,,, YOU BETTER HAVE THE BALLS!
Or you can count on the govt to make sure you get paid minimum wage.

Bob Maybe the bands you talk about should play for free. Why should we reward incompetence ? That is the the whole fu cking problem with this country right now. Every one from our leaders to our janitors expects to be protected by our government. When the government can't do it ,,, bring in the UNIONS.

Well let every UNION worker know... Your 50 cent raise didn't cover the cost of taxes ,hidden ,and upfront. You are now making less than you were last year. Been There Done That. [Your union thinks they are doing a great job]

O.K. Glen , been two slow years, discouraging years, for many reasons,, many not business related. What do we do?

We are gonna count on ourselves!!!!!!!

If every musician who wants to gig simply said "I am not doing this for free" then we wouldn't need unions. The problem is that many musicians VOLUNTARILY let them be taken advantage of. Unless we all start DEMANDING our fair share of the profit then we only have ourselves to blame for playing gratis or for peanuts. Unions had a place at one time in this country that was justified. Perhaps many unions have outgrown their usefulness. For example I know a union electrician who hasn't got a union job in TWO YEARS. It's obvious his particular union is useless to him. The musician's union at one time in this country was strong. The vast majority of music halls had to hire union musicians. At that time everybody made some money. With the economy being the way it is today, and with the glut of bands and too few places to play, then a union for us might be useless also. BUT if ALL musicians simply DEMANDED their fair share, we could all be making a fair share. Think about it....

Let me tell you what's happening more and more here on the West Coast.

Bars are looking for the cheapest entertainment they can find. Period. I'm lucky enough to live where there are Casinos with big bucks who DO pay very well for their entertainment. But if you don't have what they want, you're in for a big struggle when it comes to getting paid. Bars are starting to have more and more "Battles".

Why?

They're putting up $500 for the winner. No second prize. But a Battle Of The Bands will be enough to pay $500 for a MONTH of bands. Some straight up SUCK. But that's alright to them. Those bands still bring friends to cheer them on. Some are ok. Some are good. We've all seen and been to these before.

But now.. The bars are starting to get irritated with local Screamo bands, and just plain weird bad bands that once they hit the stage, most people leave. I've heard some REALLY awful stuff at these. You know what's worse than a Screamo band for a bar? One that's just starting out.

So now, they're deciding to shift gears. To what you ask??? DJ Battles!!

Bars are becoming less trusting of local and out of town bands that the music or bands will keep people around and drinking. But with a DJ, the MUSIC is pro stuff being spun, girls like dancing to it, it's popular, and it's not scaring off customers. They're willing to sacrifice a visual performance for at least some consistent good music to a targeted audience for the sake of selling the almighty Beer. And the DJ Battles carry the same prize money. Same concept, same amount spent on the entertainment.

Dudes playing CDs are replacing cover bands and local original bands.

Not only that, but venues are also changing their minds at a moments notice these days. You need to prove that you can bring people in now more than I've ever seen in the past. If they feel like you aren't self promoting enough. Don't be surprised if you get your show canceled in favor of "DJ NIGHT!!"

Bob , I thought about it. Bar owners are not in the music business. They are in the BOOZE business. Until you come to grips with that, you are going to keep banging your head on the wall. If I owned a bar , I wouldn't give a damn if some band came in and sounded like crap. If they brought in people that were paying 5 bucks for a 20 cent beer, who cares.

Music halls are not bars. Just try to get a job playing in a pit orchestra on BROADWAY. I think you would find the competition very steep,and they would demand a musicians union card to avoid being shut down. That's also why ticket prices can be so high.

Your friend , that hasn't had a job in 2 years, well there you go. This is what happens when you count on other forces to "make it right" Including an intrusive government or a union .

If I owned a bar , just as any other business , if I don't meet the bottom line and make money why should I put myself in economic peril? Just because some band feels they are owed it. We actually had a band here on LI that opened a bar so they would have a place to play. Unfortunately they were NOT very good at running a bar and soon went bankrupt. Thats funny.
Get the drift yet?

Glen,

Same here. A band took over a bar that was shut down for serving under age customers and the band took it over. Things went OK since they practiced in the bar every night.

Unfortunately the guy who leased the bar drank a wee bit more than the all the customers combined so it closed after about 4 months.

DJ's were big here for years and killed most of the bands off. There are as lot of "bands" but most are "mix and match" musicians from other defunct groups. Rather like we need a bass player, a drummer and a different band name. But the foundations are usually built on marginal talent.

Bob,

When union musicians worked the clubs here the pay wasn't any more than the non union guys were getting. In fact, less since union guys paid dues. The only + was the union could get a job for you occasionally, but very seldom. And the musicians they would send could be described as just a body to fill out the bandstand in a lot of cases. Finally most of the union musicians opted out since we had a do nothing union leader and paid dues every month for nothing. The union shop finally closed. The union steward would actually come to the clubs and demand money from non union players. We would just tell him to get lost.

I love dj's, cooked well done..

I love dj's, cooked well done..

If the temps stay where they said they will this week you can come to an all you can eat DJ buffet here in Iowa.

Are laws and unions perfect? No. Unfortunately without laws and unions many employers would not pay employees what they're worth. Coal miners would be risking their lives for a few bucks an hour, auto workers would be working 12-hour shifts without overtime pay and millions of families would not enjoy the standard of living we expect in this country. Saying that union workers produce sub-par products is just a gross lie.

How long do you think coal miners would continue to risk their lives for next to nothing? If they got stiffed, they'd quit. In its original form, a union allowed them to do that in an organized fashion. What musicians may need is a non-unionized strike. Just say "no live music until we're paid fairly". All it would take is one or two popular bands to remember how much it sucks and champion the cause.