General Music Chat

Why do people never give you the whole story up front ??
Getting information is like pulling teeth out of a chicken I swear.
You could have a list of questions and the answer is always I'm not sure or I'll have to check with someone.

Can you at least tell me how long you want us to play ??

I don't want to come off being ungrateful for the opportunities but dang I hate doing the dance.

Then when you get to the gig, it's like all bets are off lets do it this way.

We really have to be flexible don't we.

What kind of questions do you guys ask up front with the first contact ??

Not talking about the financial end I mean just logistics.

Who actually runs the place or is responsible for making decisions. And ask if you can contact them.

'Who runs this joint?'

That's good input zip. Unfortunately because I am often dealing with "Youth Groups" or other church organizations there is rarely a clear cut "person in charge". It's more often than not a group or committee.
A good example would be one of our recent gigs where the Youth Minister was very happy with the sound check, yet the Pastor thought we were too loud. We were catering to the Youth Minister's desire. Yet the Pastor held the trump cards.

We ( the band ) will be working on being more flexible so we can adjust on the fly to whatever the situation requires.

Any more ideas on how this situation can be streamlined??

I look at it this way: I want to put on the best performance possible (and I'm assuming that the booker wants quality for their money).

Push (in a professional manner, of course) until you get the desired answers. It's easy in those situations to get frustrated, but never let it show to them. I learned last year that, much of the time, the people put in charge of booking acts don't really know anything about it. They just want to get the job done. The more it looks like you are in control of the situation, the more you will be.

"Power perceived is power acheived". (I love that "Substitute" movie!).

My friend Seth (who does all of my recording) told me once how he approaches this. He gives the booker a staggering list of requirements (everything from power supplies to bottled water), usually about three times what he actually needs. After they get over the initial shock, they'll try to trim down his list, and in the process, try to appease him as much as possible. The result? He usually gets considerably more than he really needed, and the booker is left feeling that he managed to cut some corners. A win for both sides.

On the other hand, if you don't stand your ground, you get what I went through last year...We showed up for TWO of our biggest gigs, ended up being screwed out of stage time, power supply (one outlet for the entire band) and even a decent stage (semi flatbed, both times). At the first of these two, we even had the booker stand behind us-monitoring us! He bitched about our set length and tried to screw us out of money.

That all happened because the guy in our band that was doing to booking IS A MORON! He would agree to anything, just to get us on the stage...and in the process lost us all respect, credibility and negotiating power. If he had handled the negotiations like a pro, none of that juink would have ever happened.

George, you know the answers that you need. I believe it's possible to present these issues to whomever is booking the show in a manner that doesn't leave room for debate-and still keep it friendly. I guess, as crazy as it sounds, my advice (as bad as it may be) is be INFLEXIBLE, or at least not so willing to compromise. Just my two cents (I don't charge by the word- ).

Thanks Joseph.
I appreciate the input. As it stands we are allowing the band member whom makes the initial contact deal with the details. I feel in the future as we continue to progress we will have to insist that the booking be handled via our web site.
I am mentally formulating a "check list" form for us to use in this process.
I'm a two rounds in the same hole kind of guy. Iffy drives me bonkers.

Sans, my main band is a 4 hour cuver band so most places I call are that, but I always ask up front what are our hours. We run into 9-1, 10-2, and have even run into an 11-3 gig.

Recently I have been negotiating a spot on a festival gig in and adjacent town. Our time slot was supposed to be 8-10pm. Unfortunately, this town has two major music festivals. They had one over the past weekend and Mac McAnally was supposed to perform. This is his solo band his main gig is Jimmy Buffets right hand man and if anyone saw it they had the big gig in Mobile over the weekend that was televised. So he cancelled the local festival. They rescheduled him when? In Oct for our time slot. I was down at the festival meeting with the guy who books these shows sat night when they decided to move him to that date in our slot. Oh well it goes with the territory.

When booking a gig, there is financial considerations first. Then make sure you know your time slot and what is expected fo you. We recently got contacted about a bike rally, we have done a couple of these. We were to be the band before the headliner and play for an hour and a half. We were given our fee, but when they sent the contract they also wanted us to supply our sound system and an engineer for the whole event. 12 hours! I had to send them an amended contract minus the sound system. We didnt get the gig. So along with money, times, you need a clear understanding of equipment needs. In lieu of money are you to be fed? Are you to get any liquid refreshments? Any ad ons like this should be addressed.

George you might could put together a simple contract that says KFN will play a certain time slot on such and such date. KFN will provide x amount of equipment, KFN will require x amount of breaker amps to hook up ( I know you had an issue with this that you discussed on here). The flip side of contracts is that some of the people Ive dealt with dont want to sign anything.

Good Luck and just try to keep it as simple as possible, but cover your tail. If you have some sort of written contract and things arent as theyve been presented to you then you have soem one to point the finger at.

Good input JW.

Thanks

I think I'll start out with an information form that the band member doing the interview can fill out. Using that should allow me to develop a contract that will meet our needs without seeming to arrogance.

You could just start with a simple form that has date, location, time, and then extras about power and equipment requirements. Could be a small form, and if you talk to someone get them to sign or just initial it.

If you get into the money side of things look on the net. We did a couple of gigs where the person paying us went online and got a performance contract. You might find one of those and see how they are worded.

In your case if its a non paying gig, theres no reason to get too elaborate. I guess if theres no pay then there is no real contract? Im curious if there are any lawyers on here to see what they say about that. I mean how could you hold someone liable for anythign where there is no money involved.



George this is a good subject. Too many stuff on here these days that doesnt really mean anything, but if one person reads this and gets a contract and uses it to get paid then this thread has served its purpose.

Keep Rockin!

A simple questionaire should suffice, if you don't want to go the contact route.

! - date of the engagement
2 - time of same
3 - electricity will be provided by _______
4 - drinks/food if applicable
5 - $
6 - shade provided by (if it's an outside gig)

& whatever else you may need to know...

To me its simple . I show and play! I dont care about the rest of the crap. Just point to my spot on stage.

I only wish it could be that simple musichead10, I mean for me personally it really is.
Yet I often have the privilege of being the main contact person from the band. I also direct logistics. It's one of those things I do really well.

Sentient ... your advice taken in context of the overall post is very good as well as your perception of how our gigs often unfold.

I try not to be too pushy / take charge as I often come off being arrogant and that is not my intent.
Yet to use the form for myself and the other band members some
" examples " like the packages you mentioned may really be helpful to those unaccustomed to booking bands.

Glad Phil mentioned shade. I need to pick up some canopies and some fans.
Be real handy to have in the "go box".

JW
This is one of the best things about this site. Though we may get bogged down in other stuff at times. There are some deep thinkers and a lot of varied experience in the realm of music here.

You hafta know where you are going to play, how the set-up will be...if electricity will be provided , this cracks me up, you never know when you might need to bring your own electricity Who your audience will be. You don't want to play "Baracuda" at a wine tasting. I always give contracts and I often rerquire a deposit. As a matter of fact I give contracts to musicians who will be working for me. Preparation is the root of professionalism.

Amen Mary ... Amen.
I'm a stickler for logistics.
I want to be the first on seen with the most firepower.

It's in dealing with ( not destroying ) the public is where I lack ... finesse.

Amen Mary ... Amen.
I'm a stickler for logistics.
I want to be the first on seen with the most firepower.

It's in dealing with ( not destroying ) the public is where I lack ... finesse.

And it is how you deal with the public that opens the door for more gigs. It's really not a whole lot different from doing Tupperware parties.

Back in November, I did a house concert. I did the contract several months beforehand BTW. I knew the venue and was able to plan an appropriate performance. I went to the host's house the day before and introduced myself. I asked her if she would mind letting me see where my accompanist and I would be playing. She let me in and showed me her beautiful grand piano. The floors were marble BTW...perfect for sound quality. The performance went very well because I knew who I would be performing for and where I would be performing.