philbymon wrote:Hey, you might be a pro, but talking about playing for free pisses me off. I do wish you luck in any of your PROFESSIONAL pursuits.
Look, bub - if you give it away for free, that's what it's worth. You set the price, you set the value. Simple as that. So, yeah, if you give it away, your 'hit song' has no value. You, as an artist, are impossible to take seriously when you do that.
The more musicians go out for free, the fewer paying gigs the rest of us can get, & the longer we'll all hafta wait for our pay to come up to the standards of the rest of the world's businesses. I find such actions impossible to respect.
A musician devalues music every time he does it. If he can't see that, he's a true moron who's contributing to the downfall of the art. I find that impossible to respect.
I've been working stages for over 35 years. I've gone from being paid as little as $25 to well over a thousand for a single solo gig. The average pay for a solo has stayed the same for 30 years, for the most part, though in some places it has even dropped. The same is true for band wages. I do what little I can to help us all to make our jobs better-paying, respectable pursuits.
That's what makes me so bitter. That modern pseudo-hippie view that 'everything should be free.' All you do is feed the coffers of "the man" with that stupidity, & you're too blind to see it. I find that impossible to respect.
In my career, I've played small shows & big shows, done some radio & tv with original material, too, at the local level, & opened for some pretty big-name acts. I've seen the value of music drop due to many factors, but when I see musicians helping to devalue my product, I get offended. They are the equivalent of the scab crossing the picket line to me, by offering music for free. I find that impossible to respect.
We musicians should be doing everything in our power to increase our collective incomes, to make things better for ourselves. By working in ways that run contrary to increasing the value of music, the scabby musician is no better than the karaoke & DJ's stealing our gigs, no better than the bar owner that stiffs the band, no better than any of the other restrictions & hurdles that we have to face as musicians. I find that impossible to respect.
Are you a pro? You talk like you're a pro. I don't know you, & it seems we've hit it off on the wrong foot. If indeed you turn out to be that pro, then you'll find that I'm most respectful of both you & your art.
And yeah, I realize that I sound like a jerkwad, sorta like Craig with his wagging shamey fingers whenever this subject comes up, & I'm sorry about that. But this just looks like musos hurting musos for self glorification, to me, & that pisses me off a whole lot. I find it impossible to respect.
I certainly see your very valid points on this, but allow me to play devils advocate, your assumption is that all musicians are created equal. I'm one of the younger people here, and more than likely have much less experience musically than many of you here, thats why I seek places like this, so that I can gain from your experiences in this game..that said, I'm sure, your bands or solo act is worth every penny to the people who come see you play, because you more than likely have a local and professional reputation, so when you promote a show, and charge a certain amount for it, it's justified, you've earned that.
My band on the other hand, is on the other end of the spectrum, we're just getting our first demo going, for our first original music, and we have no standing reputation to fall on, just the word of mouth from the people who happened to have caught our first couple of shows..We can promote till the sun goes down, we can offer drink specials, we can play for next to nothing, and it's still hard to get a bar full of people to come see some band they've never really heard of play. So where is the bar or venue owners motivation to pay bands like that a flat rate? We might not bring anyone, thats the risk they have to take, so they are gun shy about the flat rate deals anymore. I value my music to an extreme, and I know in my heart I will get to where you guys are, and can afford to draw my line in the sand and say "this is what it costs to book my band" but if we tried that approach now, we'd get laughed out of the bar. How do we get stage experience which is really what matters, and balance that, while trying to do whats right for the industry we are all part of?
Its easy to draw that line once you've made it. But when you start out, just like in any job, entry level people have no ground to stand on to make demands, based on what their music is worth. Now obviously if i were in your shoes, I'd certainly see things that way, so instead of berating people for doing what they can to get their foot in the door, how about using that reputation you have going, to put together a big show, where you mix some experienced acts, with lessor experienced acts, and pay all of them a flat rate, maybe you'll get the noobs, the cred they need to walk into a bar and demand more money, otherwise, the venue owners have all the cards. They could care less if we play or not, as you said, they can get a DJ or Karaoke to fill in whenever they want, on short notice.
