Quote from Vocals & Bass:
I agree 'aristarcus' With your ending statement, "It is the depth of the independence of thought that we really miss". I would like to ask for your personal opinion about the amount of influence that 'Curt Cobain's [Lyrics] have introduced to the last decade of artist? And how would you compare this era of lyrics, music, etc. to... The 50s, R&R era, & The late 60s to early 70s? One era that I dont know much about, But I am interested in Is , The 20s RagTime & Big Band [B.Goodman] era.
DaveGTD has introduced a few significant factors regarding how trends in thought are reflected in art. Similarly, I would contrast "normal times" (of an absence of direction and lack of diversity in public thought) with times of the expression of anti-establishment thought and greater diversity. Which exists, and to what degree depends on how adversely the authority of the aristocracy (or political environment or what have you) is felt by the populace at any particular time. Aside from these, there is the seperate factor of the economy, obviously. And concerning music, there are always personalities that come along and break some pre-existing norms that declares a new independence.
I would say in times of even the greatest freedom trends of thought are only nominally creative. There is more following and less invention. Also, when there is more aristocratic influence in society, which DaveGTD compares with the time of the arts coming under the control of the aristocracy, the creativity in art wanes. This would be when the arts become undermined by the economic or authoritative factors of the aristocracy and come to reflect more of their thought than of others (which is, again, less creative). But that only goes so far before genuinely artistic creation is reborn in the heart of the oppressed and on the side of the anti-establishment. This is when there is more drive for change and invention, and when art becomes the most colorful.
Obviously, there are many other factors in social change, particularly some that make the comparison of say the '20's to the'90's more difficult. But this cycle of change probably makes a good basic template for a comparative analysis of the different eras of recent times as reflected in music.
The differences between music in the late '60's and music in the early '70's would reflect the change in this cycle between the creativity of an oppressed populace (the Vietman War) and the relief from that. This was when the self-expression of anti-establishment thought kicked in and brought new creativity and new liberty of expression with it. This is when art and music was at it's finest. Comparably, at other times, or at least leading up to such a time, as DaveGTD also pointed out, the "aristocracy" does not have a clue about this sort of invisible potential that is bound to return again some time.
Concerning the influence of Curt Cobain over the last decade of music, there must be some significance there. But I think there is a different common denominator for the similarities between his lyricism and that of much more recent times, which is simply the progress of social change.
I would say there was unusual honesty in the perspectives and beliefs, and the independence of the thinking of Cobain that put him far ahead of his time. I say this because I think it is the reasonability and accuracy of the things we believe that determines how well we can see into the future. There is also the matter of how much effort we put into independent thinking. But it is not the independence more than the accuracy, the independence only determines how far one can get from the norm toward the most accurate perspective.
It is said that great minds think alike. This would imply that such greatness is not necessarily according to ability but to some simple accuracy. It sort of changes the significance of intelligence. A person can be really smart but still be really stupid. And some of the most profound things I have ever heard came out of the mouths of some of the simplest people I have ever known.
The more honest and reasonable we are able to be in what we choose to believe and what we consider important, (and/or if we have access to good information sources) the more accurate that view. But the greater depth of independence in thought that this leads to can make a person feel isolated and unsettled, particularly in times of social decline (or leading up to them), when such perspectives can also be very troubling.
Anyway, I can think of a number of other factors that complicate this basic cycle of change in public and artistic thought expression, of which probably the most confusing but significant are international in nature.
This was a good question to pose. Thank you for it. But concerning the other eras of music, let me open up this thread, at this point, to the input of others.
.
I agree 'aristarcus' With your ending statement, "It is the depth of the independence of thought that we really miss". I would like to ask for your personal opinion about the amount of influence that 'Curt Cobain's [Lyrics] have introduced to the last decade of artist? And how would you compare this era of lyrics, music, etc. to... The 50s, R&R era, & The late 60s to early 70s? One era that I dont know much about, But I am interested in Is , The 20s RagTime & Big Band [B.Goodman] era.
DaveGTD has introduced a few significant factors regarding how trends in thought are reflected in art. Similarly, I would contrast "normal times" (of an absence of direction and lack of diversity in public thought) with times of the expression of anti-establishment thought and greater diversity. Which exists, and to what degree depends on how adversely the authority of the aristocracy (or political environment or what have you) is felt by the populace at any particular time. Aside from these, there is the seperate factor of the economy, obviously. And concerning music, there are always personalities that come along and break some pre-existing norms that declares a new independence.
I would say in times of even the greatest freedom trends of thought are only nominally creative. There is more following and less invention. Also, when there is more aristocratic influence in society, which DaveGTD compares with the time of the arts coming under the control of the aristocracy, the creativity in art wanes. This would be when the arts become undermined by the economic or authoritative factors of the aristocracy and come to reflect more of their thought than of others (which is, again, less creative). But that only goes so far before genuinely artistic creation is reborn in the heart of the oppressed and on the side of the anti-establishment. This is when there is more drive for change and invention, and when art becomes the most colorful.
Obviously, there are many other factors in social change, particularly some that make the comparison of say the '20's to the'90's more difficult. But this cycle of change probably makes a good basic template for a comparative analysis of the different eras of recent times as reflected in music.
The differences between music in the late '60's and music in the early '70's would reflect the change in this cycle between the creativity of an oppressed populace (the Vietman War) and the relief from that. This was when the self-expression of anti-establishment thought kicked in and brought new creativity and new liberty of expression with it. This is when art and music was at it's finest. Comparably, at other times, or at least leading up to such a time, as DaveGTD also pointed out, the "aristocracy" does not have a clue about this sort of invisible potential that is bound to return again some time.
Concerning the influence of Curt Cobain over the last decade of music, there must be some significance there. But I think there is a different common denominator for the similarities between his lyricism and that of much more recent times, which is simply the progress of social change.
I would say there was unusual honesty in the perspectives and beliefs, and the independence of the thinking of Cobain that put him far ahead of his time. I say this because I think it is the reasonability and accuracy of the things we believe that determines how well we can see into the future. There is also the matter of how much effort we put into independent thinking. But it is not the independence more than the accuracy, the independence only determines how far one can get from the norm toward the most accurate perspective.
It is said that great minds think alike. This would imply that such greatness is not necessarily according to ability but to some simple accuracy. It sort of changes the significance of intelligence. A person can be really smart but still be really stupid. And some of the most profound things I have ever heard came out of the mouths of some of the simplest people I have ever known.
The more honest and reasonable we are able to be in what we choose to believe and what we consider important, (and/or if we have access to good information sources) the more accurate that view. But the greater depth of independence in thought that this leads to can make a person feel isolated and unsettled, particularly in times of social decline (or leading up to them), when such perspectives can also be very troubling.
Anyway, I can think of a number of other factors that complicate this basic cycle of change in public and artistic thought expression, of which probably the most confusing but significant are international in nature.
This was a good question to pose. Thank you for it. But concerning the other eras of music, let me open up this thread, at this point, to the input of others.
.
