Mike is a long time member here, and he is no troll.
He's intelligent and debates well, but doesn't mind getting in the dirt with anyone either. I respect his ideas, even though I disagree with some of them. So, 90dB please... give Mike a break. He's a regular contributor here, though he's in and out. And btw... I like your style 90dB... you clearly have a head on your shoulders and a good command of the language. I can always admire that in others.
And Mike, you need to give Shredd a break. This particular issue affects him DIRECTLY and PERSONALLY, and he is enmeshed in that reality on a daily basis. You aren't going to get a non-passionate response from him, where his livelihood is concerned, so seriously brother... don't expect a lack of passion, and don't judge him for being passionate about it. Shredd's a good guy, with a wide open heart and mind, who doesn't mind stepping out on a limb, and growing, when someone has something worthwhile to share with him. Just remember bro, that this is not merely a debate... not a game of contests of wits, but.... it's HIS LIFE, and his well being, being threatened and affected here.
Everyone can respect each other.
IMMIGRATION is a VERY DIFFICULT issue. There are MILLIONS of illegal aliens in this country, and most of them are hard workers who don't get in alot of legal trouble. In many cases they have been here for a large number of years. You don't just put MANY MILLIONS of people on buses and send them somewhere else in the middle of the night. It's a logistical, social and moral nightmare, and potentially EXPLOSIVE. One gets surprised that illegals would protest new laws openly, when they have no legal status here, but they do. What do you think they would do, when a plan is announced to dump millions of them across the border en masse? It's just not going to happen. There would be chaos and violence in every major city in this country.
At the same time, it is really not fair to give them amnesty (as has been done in the past) when there is a quick path to citizenship connected with it. How is that fair, to those who have forged ahead, for 5 years or more, and are STILL waiting their turn to come here LEGALLY, and yet they still follow the process faithfully. How is it right, to reward those who came here ILLEGALLY in preference over those who are doing things LEGALLY? No one here would think, that it was right, if they had been standing in line for concert tickets for hours, that suddenly, the ticket office just opened the floodgates and started handing tickets out randomly to the ones who pushed their way to the front the hardest. You were following the rules, then suddenly the rules go out the window, and the gate crashers get rewarded, rather than YOU, who had been civil, legal and patient, in following the rules, and waiting your turn.
And I take exception to some of the points made by different parties.
Mexicans are taking jobs Americans won't do?
I don't believe that.
They may accept wages that are below the legal requirement sometimes. But they aren't taking REAL and LEGAL jobs that no one else wants. Many Americans would be more than happy to take those jobs if they opened up. There are plenty of able bodied people who would take those jobs, not to mention senior citizens, handicapped, students or just couples looking to bring home a second income again.
In any event, this is a VERY complex issue. It's not a simple calculation. Someone can point out that illegals with false social security cards end up paying into a system and not receiving benefits back, since the number is invalid. The government profits a little, in that scenario. I've brought this point up myself. But it's also true that immigrants (legal or not) send alot of American Currency out of the country, where it gets used outside America, rather than WITHIN the country, and this contributes to inequities in currency, and is not healthy for the economy. It's also true that many illegals, use emergency room services, among other services, and pay less taxes toward them, than a law abiding American would. There are also potential health risks, criminal activities, murders, a lack of accountability through documentation and now, potential terrorist threats crossing the borders with the drugs and the illegal aliens.
I would say that, where ILLEGAL immigration is concerned, the bad, now, certainly outweighs any good, that can come of it. Somehow, the borders have to be better secured, the illegals without warrants need to be documented by some process (meaning work papers - NOT citizenship before the legal immigrants would get theirs) The criminals need to be deported, and henceforth, ANY ILLEGAL ALIEN in the country, should be prosecuted and jailed for a number of years, and ONLY THEN... deported, so that they have wasted years of their lives, without making any real money, and thereby helping to take away some of the impetus for taking that risk, to break the law in the first place, and come here illegally. If they pay-off were nowhere near worth the high risk, then many would stop, and find other means. Maybe, even... and here's a thought.... FIX THEIR OWN DAMN COUNTRY, instead of pillaging ours!
Ok, it's almost 3:30am and I am probably making less and less sense as I go along... LOL - So I better go to bed before I embarrass myself any further!
