General Music Chat

It doesn't outlaw the game Phil.

It prevents minors from purchasing them.

Oh, wait! My bad! They aren't trying to stop ppl from making the games, they're just pushing to have stores quit selling to minors...eh, I'm okay with that, I guess.

Still...there are ratings on the games, so why does the Supreme Court need to be involved?

Seems like a non-issue to me.

More distractions...

It doesn't outlaw the game Phil.

It prevents minors from purchasing them.

Yeah, I rechecked that as you were posting...I still think it's a silly thing for the SC to be involved with.

YOU GUYS ARE SO CLUELESS. A child raised with proper values and good judgement installed and reinforced by good parenting never makes that bad choice in your scenarios. He knows the ramifications of those choices. He has the BALLS to say NO. Not all children are as impulsive as the characters you are describeing, sneeking out, drinking, smoking, lap dancing. Talk about over blowing your fictional child to win the argument. Listen I know what you are thinking, all kids do bad things and didn't you do that sh8t when you were young? The difference is the child with the good parenting behind him will likely stop short of doing all these things you describe in your James Dean type short story. Good parents give the child a chance of surviving childhood.

We need a Mother in this discussion.

...I still think it's a silly thing for the SC to be involved with.

Maybe it is, maybe it isn't.

I don't know all the aspects of "WHY" California is doing this. California is a pretty liberal state... there must be a reason for this, for THEM to want these restrictions.

It's similar to the AZ law just passed.

I don't know what the polls are NATIONALLY, but in ARIZONA, the citizens are 70% IN FAVOR of that law.

LOL

CA, being a "liberal" state, would have more laws, wouldn't they? Cripes! If someone sees someone else poopin' in a bucket, the liberals will write a law against it.

It's the liberals who push all the stupid invasive laws, imho - seat belt laws, smoking bans...this is not the work of the conservatives.

YOU GUYS ARE SO CLUELESS.

I'm very well informed.

A child raised with proper values and good judgement installed and reinforced by good parenting never makes that bad choice in your scenarios.

Never?

On the contrary, kids will ALWAYS make bad choices on occasion.

You did too.

Show me one kid, that never did ONE THING wrong.

Not all children are as impulsive as the characters you are describeing,

Clearly this wasn't "impulsive". It was well thought out. He waited till you were asleep. Impulsivity can certainly be dangerous with kids, but so can repetitive peer pressure. Day after day after day, the other kids mocking your kid for not being "cool" or for being "afraid". The best kids can buckle under relentless peer pressure... that's what makes it so powerful. However, once that kid takes that BIG RISK, and it blows up in his face and he pays a high price, then yes... it may be the LAST really big risk he ever takes as a child. But until some huge consequence is EXPERIENCED, it will always be a THEORY that this is really wrong, that they will be caught and pay a high price, etc... It often takes the school of hard knocks, to reinforce what a parent is teaching and even living himself, before a child really FULLY embraces it, as his own values as well.

And you SHOULD NEVER risk a child's life, on your HOPE, that they will ALWAYS do the right thing, with good parenting. It's IRRESPONSIBLE of you, to risk a child's life, on your personal ego.

sneeking out, drinking, smoking, lap dancing. Talk about over blowing your fictional child to win the argument.

Wrong.

The point was... that if we took YOUR IDEOLOGY to it's logical conclusion, then there would be NO RESTRICTIONS LEGALLY on the behavior of MINORS, because they would be UNECESSARY. If there were no restrictions on alcohol, cigarettes, pornography, driver's license, etc... then trust me... YOU WOULD see many more youths engaging in such behaviors. Why? Because as part of their GROWTH PROCESS (coming into their own identities) children naturally PUSH BOUNDARIES.

When you EXPAND those boundaries... then they explore far more deeply into various behaviors in order to "cross the line" because the LINE, has been moved further away... further INTO the behaviors you are placing boundaries upon.

So my examples were NOT extreme. They took place in a world, without specific laws RESTRICTING Minor's behaviors.

It is unfortunate that Hillary Clinton's "It takes a village" quote was so distorted. It really DOES take a village, to help raise children well. Even the staunchest Conservative believes this, but he calls it something else. The hardest line, conservative, recalls the days proudly... where neighbors knew the children of the neighborhood, and would get onto YOUR CHILD if they got out of line... bring them right home to you, cause they had been keeping an eye out on the youth getting into mischief, and who knows? Back then, he may have even popped your kids butt for you, for doing something that put him in danger. What is that... if not a VILLAGE helping to raise a child.

A village is simply... REINFORCEMENT.

Extended family, teachers, neighbors, and even.... LAWS, all work together, ideally, to keep kids out of TROUBLE that ANY KIDS will get into. If nothing else, than the fact, that the part of a child's brain that controls impulsivity, is not even fully developed until between 18 and 21 years of age. Before that, the part of the brain dealing with those behaviors is NOT FULLY DEVELOPED YET, and means that kids have a FAR GREATER TIME in keeping their impulsive behaviors in check, than adults do!

Good parents give the child a chance of surviving childhood. [/b]

Don't the "CHILDREN" of BAD PARENTS also deserve a chance at SURVIVAL?

Are you going to deny children of bad parents SURVIVAL merely because you are sure that YOU are a perfect parent? Not very Christian of you is it? To hold a child responsible for his parent's irresponsibility, when you could simply support some reasonable laws, that could deflect some of the parent's responsibility and give the poor kid a chance at survival?

You see? You can't win this argument.

Your position is too weak.

CA, being a "liberal" state, would have more laws, wouldn't they?

Both parties are willing to pass plenty of laws.

The differnce is, that Liberals want more laws REGULATING business, profits, environment, etc... And Conservatives are more interested in regulating MORALITY... No alcohol on Sundays, no pornographic materials, no recreational drugs.

That's what makes this odd to me.

California DOES have smoking bans on cigarettes, but has decriminalized marijuana, and generally doesn't support restrictions on CONTENT. Many liberals want CHILDREN being allowed to receive abortions WITHOUT parental notification even.

This would be something CONSERVATIVES would do, more than LIBERALS.

[b]Craig, here you go again stretching and misrepresenting meanings. This discussion started with videos and now you bend my words into an entire list of subjects. (alcohol, cigarettes, pornagraphy, licensing and whatever). You are right children will always make bad decisions on occasion but what I said if you can see through your pompous colored glasses is that they have a more likely chance of stoping short of making the wrong choice having had good parenting. Next time include the whole quote not just the part that you can manipulate. I never said there is a kid that never did one thing wrong. Warp the words again. The mocking and peer preasure are done to the weak kids not the ones with strong character, you know that. Now you incinuate that I risk a childs life by not endorsing a video law and by trusting that my child will do the right thing because I have instilled character and morals and logic and common sence in them. You say that is my ego doing that. You are just an idiot to let those words leave your finger tips. You have a very sad outlook on the youth of America Craig. You think the only boundaries that youth push are negative ones obviously. If you give them an inch they will take a mile but only the bad mile. Parenting starts at birth not speraticly as they grow up. Your examples were not just extreme but they were one sided and unrealistic. I think in your mind all children start bad and you just keep them from getting worse with the help of State and Government. WOW You are really out there. The fact that we don't have the Village mentality anymore is more reason to emphasize good parenting. Not delagate on to the State or Government. I am not a perfect parent and don't insinuate that I said that somewhere. Philosof8ck. And another thing don't try to beat me down with the Christian remark either. The children of bad parents 9 out of 10 will be bad children. Thats what the Laws should be for. They all suffer from the seeds They sowed. You can't save them all but you can protect yourself and yours by being a good parent. Maybe you are looking in the mirror and wishing something about you and yours.

Klugmo,

Answer TWO questions "HONESTLY" for me...


1) Should children be allowed to purchase XXX Videos?

2) Did you let your children believe in Santa Claus?

1. Ofcourse not.

2.Ofcourse.


At the cost of my spelling skills I raised a fine young man.

Sorry for the name calling jimmydanger will never foregive me now.

YOU GUYS ARE SO CLUELESS. A child raised with proper values and good judgement installed and reinforced by good parenting never makes that bad choice in your scenarios. He knows the ramifications of those choices. He has the BALLS to say NO. Not all children are as impulsive as the characters you are describeing, sneeking out, drinking, smoking, lap dancing. Talk about over blowing your fictional child to win the argument. Listen I know what you are thinking, all kids do bad things and didn't you do that sh8t when you were young? The difference is the child with the good parenting behind him will likely stop short of doing all these things you describe in your James Dean type short story. Good parents give the child a chance of surviving childhood.

We need a Mother in this discussion.

As a mom of two I can say with some authority that you can raise two kids and have them turn out totally different. My eldest has three kids now. All the kids have different dads. She never quite finishes what she starts. Tries to get ahead but never seems to quite do it. I love her dearly but really hate some of the choices she makes. She talks a good talk but doesn't walk the walk. I think she gets most of her genes from my mother. My son on the other hand is more stable. Married and is going to school to be a nurse. Getting ready to have their first child, which was totally planned out. They have been married for almost two years now. They have bought a house. Totally stable.

They were allowed to watch "R" rated movies.....ex hubby loved the action/fighting type movies. I drew the line at wrestling for the simple fact, when my son watched that stuff he would get more aggressive.

I love both of my kids equally, but they are totally opposite to a certain degree.

As a parent all you can do is what you think is right and hope for the best. Instill manners and respect for others. Never ever make fun of others. Example: Think about how "you" would feel if someone did (insert bad thing here) to you?

They are both good kids. My daughter thinks in the moment not long range, my son thinks long range and overthinks the moment. LOL

1. Of course not.

Well... some video games are not much different brother.

Some of them HAVE graphic depictions of sex acts, as well as nudity. And as good as graphics are these days, the nudity is very explicit.

You would have to support the restriction on video games, if you also support restrictions on pornography. Believe me... THERE IS, pornography in some "children"s video games. There have been hearings on Capital Hill because of THIS VERY ISSUE!

2.Of course.

I asked this one, because I am a big OPPONENT of parent's LYING to their children, about Santa Claus. I get that it is an "innocent" lie, or one they believe to be well-intentioned. But it is a LIE, none the less. It would be better to be HONEST with the kid, that there "WAS" a real Santa Claus (Saint Nicholas) and NOW, parents or loved ones, ACT OUT, the role of Santa Claus, as make-believe, for fun... to keep the story and legend of Santa Claus alive. But it is MOMMY and DADDY who are Santa Claus for their own children now.


This is important to me, because decades ago, I thought about this ritual, and realized, that, even for THE BEST of parents, that... THIS ONE EVENT, was probably the FIRST TIME a kid, would catch their parents in a lie to them. And who would generally TELL THEM THE TRUTH about Santa Claus? Not the parents.... usually, it will be.... THEIR FRIENDS!!!!

In that one moment, a child may very well learn, that "sometimes" they can trust THEIR FRIENDS over their own PARENTS!!! I thought to myself, that as innocent as this seems to parents.... it is possibly the first major break of trust, a child has with his parents! A SECRET WAS KEPT FROM THEM! - THE PEOPLE THEY HAD TRUSTED THE MOST IN LIFE JUST LIED TO ME!!! - AND THEY KEPT THE LIE GOING FOR YEARS!!!


I told my wife about this, but told her that it was her 3 kids, and she had already started it with them, but even still... I would not lie to them, I told her. If they asked me for the truth, I told her, I would look them in the eye, and tell them to think about whether they really want to know the truth or not yet, and they should think about it and sleep on it, and the next day, if they still wanted to know the truth... I would tell them.

My wife said this was ok.

So, recently, her daughter came to me, and wanted to know whether Santa Claus was real or not. And I asked her to sleep on it. The next day, she decided that she wasn't ready for the truth yet. LOL - But the next year, she asked me again, and I told her the same thing. The next day, this time, she was ready, and asked me for the truth.

I told her the truth.

What does anyone here think her face looked like, when she found out? Think it was happy? Think it was relieved? You damn well that it wasn't. Her eyes and face dropped, and she looked terribly disappointed, and then even a little angry. This is supposed to be harmless, all parents say, right? Well, it's not completely harmless after all, huh?

WORSE STILL...

I found out that MY OTHER fears and suspicions were ALL FOUNDED! I asked her if she was upset or relieved to find out the truth, and she said "Both" but "More upset". Then she said... "But I knew it. I just didn't want to believe it!" I asked... "How did you know?" and she said "My brother told me! But I thought he was lying to me, cause I trusted mommy more!"

When I found that out, I also got upset, because her mother had instructed the boys NOT to tell her, until she was ready, and then MOMMY would tell her, and not them! Well, he agreed to this condition, and THEN BROKE HIS WORD to his mother. But I was mostly mad, because I know his character, and the reason he did this, was to gain some confidence from her... he had the inside information... he would tell her the truth about things... but really... he likes trying to CONTROL his brother and sister (he is the oldest) and he USES stuff like this, to do it, and gain their trust!

I also asked her, whether kids at school had told her there was no Santa Claus, and she said "Yes, but I believed Mommy... but... they were telling me the truth... now I'm gonna look stupid Daddy!"

I told her she was NOT stupid for trusting her mother, and that parents don't mean any harm in having fantasy for their kids, they just don't think about all the possible consequences of it.

And I told her that if other kids ask her, she should tell them... "Ask your mom or your dad" because the parent has a right to be the first one, to tell their kids the truth.

But here is the point...

LOOK AT ALL THE DRAMA! From something that is supposed to be HARMLESS FUN!!!

1) I had to upset my step-daughter

2) I found out my step-son had lied to his mother.

3) Kids had been lied to by their parents, and other kids made to be complicit and help KEEP the lie going in the family!

4) Feelings of BETRAYAL

5) Kids at school were now MORE TRUSTWORTHY for some information than their own parents are!


Is all that, really... HARMLESS?


And just because your children do not SHARE WITH YOU, that they are very disappointed in being lied to, doesn't mean that they weren't!!!

How many parents saw a HAPPY look on their child's face, when they first learned there was NO SANTA?


Not many.


Maybe there is a better way?

At the cost of my spelling skills I raised a fine young man.

I'm sure that's true. But I hope also, that I illustrated, that even good parents, do things, which seem HARMLESS to their kids, and yet THEY AREN'T. And and in MANY kids cases, this is the EXACT MOMENT where they learned to trust their friends MORE than their parents, for some subjects. Maybe they do this too, later, when it comes to sex, or drugs, or other serious topics?

They are both good kids, meaning you must have done alright as a parent. Congratulations.