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I already asked how bands organized tour. I got good feedback but still looking for more

Now my question is aimed at touring.

I am not planning one this year. I actually never have toured with a band but it is something I am looking into.

Let alone the fact that organizing a tour seems like a hell of a job, financing one is probably even worse.

Seeing how gas prices are at an all time high, venues and club owners ask for more pay-to-play type gigs and the public is less eager to spend money due to overall high prices for everything, how is a band supposed to finance a tour and make money out of it?

Actually are most bands here more out for the exposure or for some profit? Both go hand in hand of course. What I mean is , if you know a tour won't make you any money, will you still take a shot at it and dig in your band fund savings?

Thanks

I wish I knew the answer hehe but this is the one area
I am lost on.
I am still trying to figure out how to just play one club.
I am new at this. I use to play in a rock band but it was so much easier to get booked at a small town club than the city.
Here seems you got to have a crowd to play. I thought about looking for a manager...maybe that is how these bands finance a tour...someone with money like a manager.

I would NEVER go on a tour that I would expect to cost me money. "Exposure" - the word just doesn't have the same meaning it did 30-40 years ago. So you get to play for ppl who may like your stuff. So what? There are a gazillion other bands that they'd like, too. The entire industry has been overloaded with local heroes, newbies, has-beens, one-hit wonders & other "professional" players. There are simply too many groups out there to compete with, to put all your eggs into the "exposure" basket. You will lose that bet on your future.

I don't mean to sound so negative, but let's look at the facts of it all.

You dip into your savings to promote your band. There are always going to be innumerable ways to go over your originally intended budget, so you'll have to spend more when that van breaks down, or that amp goes on the fritz. You end up spending way more than you intended, & while you're doing that, some of the venues that you booked have closed, so you have to scramble to find new ones to make a few bucks to cover up that loss. Chances are that you won't get the same pay you expected from the place that crapped out on you. You are running against the bank & the clock the entire tour.

And the ppl that do get to see you are going into the venue sight unseen. They have no idea if you're any good, other than if the venue in question has a steady flow of great acts that you have to live up to. If that's the case, you're just another great act to them, soon to be forgotten as soon as next weekend arives with another great act.

If by some slim chance you do really wow a crowd, that's wonderful, but you can't stick around for the kudos cuz you gotta be in Bumflook tomorrow night & you have a 9 hour drive ahead of you to get there. The CD's & t's & you sold, & the actual pay you made at the last gig will go for food & gas & hotel/camping facilities. You'll be lucky to break even on any leg of the trip.

You'll be competing against local favorite acts & really good touring acts the entire time you're on the road, & if you do manage to get that elusive "exposure" in a single town, you'll be extremely lucky.

It doesn't matter how good an act you are, there will be a lot of times that the audience just doesn't get you, so that stop will be useless in your search for fame & fortune.

If I were to tour, I'd make sure that I have as perfect a plan as possible set up for the trip. I'd make it a short run, perhaps only one or two states over a month or two. I'd have ample $ set aside for accidents & emergencies. And I'd be praying the entire time that nothing really bad happened along the way.

Going the festival route will get you as much or more exposure than your average bar tour. The ppl who go to those things don't have super high expectations, with the possible exception of the headliner, so when your great act starts to play, it will surprize them, & you'll sell your merch, which is where your bread & butter comes from. The problem with festivals is that they are seasonal. You can't do them year round in the more northern areas.

The ppl that buy your CD's at these things will refer you to others, who are more likely to check out your web sites & buy your CD's o/l, if they don't simply pirate copies from their friends who saw you 1st.

The industry has really changed.

Imho, anyone who decides to take a loss on a tour before they even get started is a complete fool. There are innumerable ways to take a loss without actually PLANNING on it from the get-go. Go for the bucks, but have enough back-up cash stashed to cover the inevitable extra costs you'll incur on the way.

But Phil, from a fun perspective, it's enjoyable to please a different crowd everyday for a week or so. I'm talking indie tours. They usually last less than a month, round 10 days actually.
Ofcourse, it's never all just fun. It costs, but it's worth it. You can sell more merch, get more "hardcore" fans that will buy your shyt. If you do it right, and you're lucky. Otherwise, it's just for fun and nothing else.

EXPOSURE...

$ is fun, but when they know who you are, the $ will follow you.

If you are good enough ... get an booking agent. If they are good they will book you in the right venues and you'll make money. They will also try to keep the miles down between gigs. Tours have to be well funded, organized and managed or you'll end up in the middle of nowhere with no money to get home.

Exposure doesn't pay the gas, food and lodging required for a tour. Exposure pays off the next time you play the venue, if you get a buzz the first time you played the venue, if you didn't get a buzz then you suck. Your friends that come to your home gigs that tell you how great you are won't be there ... reality check.

Reality check?

If you mention your band name and your name and they say WHO?

No one knows you are anything more than foul smelling. LOL

Nothing more embarrassing that being a "PRO MUSICIAN" and no one knowing who the hell you are or anything you play.

You may as well be invisible.

Andragon wrote:But Phil, from a fun perspective, it's enjoyable to please a different crowd everyday for a week or so. I'm talking indie tours. They usually last less than a month, round 10 days actually.
Ofcourse, it's never all just fun. It costs, but it's worth it. You can sell more merch, get more "hardcore" fans that will buy your shyt. If you do it right, and you're lucky. Otherwise, it's just for fun and nothing else.

Funny how terms change over the years, ain't it? I'd call a one week trip a "stint" rather than a "tour." When I think of the word "tour" it means extended travel with lots of stops to entertain ppl.

Of course, when I was growing up, the term "dot com" meant that someone was either stuttering real bad, or trying to talk with their mouth full.

philbymon wrote:I would NEVER go on a tour that I would expect to cost me money. "Exposure" - the word just doesn't have the same meaning it did 30-40 years ago. So you get to play for ppl who may like your stuff. So what? There are a gazillion other bands that they'd like, too. The entire industry has been overloaded with local heroes, newbies, has-beens, one-hit wonders & other "professional" players. There are simply too many groups out there to compete with, to put all your eggs into the "exposure" basket. You will lose that bet on your future.

I don't mean to sound so negative, but let's look at the facts of it all.

You dip into your savings to promote your band. There are always going to be innumerable ways to go over your originally intended budget, so you'll have to spend more when that van breaks down, or that amp goes on the fritz. You end up spending way more than you intended, & while you're doing that, some of the venues that you booked have closed, so you have to scramble to find new ones to make a few bucks to cover up that loss. Chances are that you won't get the same pay you expected from the place that crapped out on you. You are running against the bank & the clock the entire tour.

And the ppl that do get to see you are going into the venue sight unseen. They have no idea if you're any good, other than if the venue in question has a steady flow of great acts that you have to live up to. If that's the case, you're just another great act to them, soon to be forgotten as soon as next weekend arives with another great act.

If by some slim chance you do really wow a crowd, that's wonderful, but you can't stick around for the kudos cuz you gotta be in Bumflook tomorrow night & you have a 9 hour drive ahead of you to get there. The CD's & t's & you sold, & the actual pay you made at the last gig will go for food & gas & hotel/camping facilities. You'll be lucky to break even on any leg of the trip.

You'll be competing against local favorite acts & really good touring acts the entire time you're on the road, & if you do manage to get that elusive "exposure" in a single town, you'll be extremely lucky.

It doesn't matter how good an act you are, there will be a lot of times that the audience just doesn't get you, so that stop will be useless in your search for fame & fortune.

If I were to tour, I'd make sure that I have as perfect a plan as possible set up for the trip. I'd make it a short run, perhaps only one or two states over a month or two. I'd have ample $ set aside for accidents & emergencies. And I'd be praying the entire time that nothing really bad happened along the way.

Going the festival route will get you as much or more exposure than your average bar tour. The ppl who go to those things don't have super high expectations, with the possible exception of the headliner, so when your great act starts to play, it will surprize them, & you'll sell your merch, which is where your bread & butter comes from. The problem with festivals is that they are seasonal. You can't do them year round in the more northern areas.

The ppl that buy your CD's at these things will refer you to others, who are more likely to check out your web sites & buy your CD's o/l, if they don't simply pirate copies from their friends who saw you 1st.

The industry has really changed.

Imho, anyone who decides to take a loss on a tour before they even get started is a complete fool. There are innumerable ways to take a loss without actually PLANNING on it from the get-go. Go for the bucks, but have enough back-up cash stashed to cover the inevitable extra costs you'll incur on the way.

There's a lot of reality stated here, for those that have not toured.

I look at touring as touring a circuit of venues so you are back in the same venue every month or 2, not a one time shot .... that doesn't get you anything. Yes you get EXPOSURE but it a side benefit, you still have to make profit on the tour.

Nothing more embarrassing that being a "PRO MUSICIAN" and no one knowing who the hell you are or anything you play.

That where a Pro Player shines ... where an weekend player fails.

The Pro Player knows how to impress the crowd and interact with them to get the crowd loving what the band is doing .... that is why they are a Pro, not just making a live off music.

Yea, Phil, that's an indie tour - the short tour. Unless you start saving every fckin penny for 8 months, you're not going anywhere special.
On another note, a lot of independant rock bands have gathered a decent amount of fans from European gigs.
So, if you know the right people there and got enough cash to go on such a tour, I'd totally recommend it.
Ofcourse, if you're already in Europe, that's pretty much the opposite.

Anyone that thinks them self a PRO and has someone come up to them and ask them who they are must jump from a tall building or admit they are NOT pro, unless your using the joke version of PRO or Pre-Retarded Object!

A pro is someone that is known to be something by most. Like we'd say OJ has PRO status for killing his wife..

Loosen hat, cutting off blood to your head/brain/soul.

Hell no. He's innocent...

We won $20,000 and started booking a tour right away. Got fifteen shows in Europe before we left and when we started playing, we got many many more, ending up with 75.

Andragon wrote:On another note, a lot of independant rock bands have gathered a decent amount of fans from European gigs.
So, if you know the right people there and got enough cash to go on such a tour, I'd totally recommend it.

This is an excellent way to do it. I toured the Europe circuit back in '97 and again in '98, through our indie label. All the details were handled by the booking agent in Belgium, though, and all we had to do was get to the airport in Brussels, the tour bus was waiting for us there. Once on the bus, all food, beer, transportation costs, etc. were taken care of. Our manager made sure we had a great rider, so we were covered. The tour manager had the passports, so when it came to crossing borders, they don't even wake you up most of the times.

Touring like that (it was all metal bands) is quite tight on space, though. There were 4 bands (3 on the last tour) all sharing the same bus, a bus with 18 bunks the size of coffins. And trust me...when one person gets a headcold or something...you're getting it too...as is everyone else on the bus. Sharing the same back line really helped cut costs and space. We just brought our heads, and drum hardware.

As far as merch goes, (as it's pretty well the only way you'll make money on tour...) DON'T bother shipping it over. Assuming you have a booking agent in Europe handling the tour, they'll be able to arrange for shirts, etc. to be printed there, and delivered to the first gig. The shirts and printings are EXCELLENT quality, and the prices are quite cheap. That way, you can avoid the shipping costs and import tax (it cost us 33% at $20 per shirt the first time...) Also, if the merch is going fast, you can order more, and have it delivered to the show within a couple of days. Much more convenient.

The one thing I've not seen mentioned yet, though, is the expenses you have when you get BACK from the tour...rent/mortgage, hydro bills, etc. are still going to be there, so if you didn't make money off the tour, something is going up for sale, be it your gear, or your house.

So, bottom line, from my experiences, is this: If you are thinking of doing an indie tour, find a good manager. It's the manager's job to find the booking agent, and their job to line up all the shows in a sensible manner. You may not make the money on it, but atleast it won't cost you anything, other than spending money, and, ofcourse, the bills when you get home.

Cheers!

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