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Tone vacuums

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:35 pm
by The Hunter
I pluged my wah pedal into the low gain and effects loop input on my new Peavy 4x10 Ultra and it's sapping the life out of my tone. The volume lowers a significant amount on the W part of the wah and most of the bass signal is erased. I need help soon because I don't want to give up using my wah pedal. :(

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:43 pm
by gbheil
Hunter, I made a choice not to attempt to use any pedals (other than the volume pedal I am training with @ Palopete's urging) Until such time as I feel I have some level of mastery of the tones inherent in my new amp.
I did play with a delay some. But not with my band. I will investigate the pedal option again latter in my studies.

PostPosted: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:22 pm
by Shredd6
Unfortunately, that's the way wah pedals are. You need one with a true bypass.

You can find mods on ebay. Or you can buy one from this guy.

http://myworld.ebay.com/pedal_surgeons/

Check out his items for sale, you'll see wah pedals with the mods pre-wired.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:17 am
by Shredd6
Here's another guy selling mods.

http://myworld.ebay.com/pedalhacker/

To tell you the truth, I need to get one of these as well. I haven't done it yet.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:15 pm
by The Hunter
But doesn't true bypass screw with the signal and make the volume transition between the on and off position on the pedal unequal?

PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:01 pm
by Starfish Scott
true bypass = a very good thing

PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:44 pm
by jw123
True bypass is great unless you want the tails of your delay to trail off.

For me most effects only get used for a small percentage of the time so I like a true bypass, it just cuts out a lot of extra noise.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:44 pm
by Shredd6
None of my other true bypass pedals have been known to do that.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:45 pm
by Shredd6
The Hunter wrote:But doesn't true bypass screw with the signal and make the volume transition between the on and off position on the pedal unequal?


I was responding to this.

PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:11 pm
by gbheil
So? Pedals with both line out and bypass I should use the bypass jack into my effects loop?

PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:00 pm
by Paleopete
George - I'm not sure about that one, sorry, but I think line out is a line signal (as opposed to a speaker signal) and bypass would mean it's as if it's not there.

True bypass was not used on many pedals for years, it means that even though the effect is basically out of the signal chain, it still goes through some of the electronics in the effect so you're not getting the actual signal, it's being modified to a small extent by the circuitry of the electronic switching, like my Ibanez SD 9 distortion pedal. The usual result is it sucks tone out of your rig, most notably treble. As soon as I can round up a box and the parrts to do it, I'm going to make up a true bypass box for my entire pedalboard, leaving only one pedal (first in the chain) so it will have a buffer. (don't ask me to explain a buffer, I don't completely understand it myself, electronics geeks speak something other than normal English).

True bypass means when the effect is off, it's effectively out of the signal chain entirely, except for the mechanical switch. Wah pedals have always been notorious for "tone sucking", due to their electronic design. The only one I've seen that didn't really kill tone was my old Morley Power Wah (chrome box model) which is now dead, I'd have to completely build a new circuit board to revive it,. Which I'm really tempted to do...

If you can solder I would say find a mod you can do to add a true bypass switch, preferably without making any cosmetic changes. That's why I'm not even considering adding one to my SD 9, I'd have to drill a big ugly hole and put in a separate switch...no thanks, it's a vintage pedal I don't wanna drill anything, same as my amp. I'll make minor electronic changes, mostly easily reversible, but nothing cosmetic that involves extra holes in a vintage amp or effect.

Off topic, but I recently tried out a minor mod on my Fender Champ, very easily reversible, simply de-solder the resistor connected to the bass pot and it adds gain but disables the tone knobs. Works great, ceranked to 10 it now has actual distortion, not just a little dirty like it was, and for the first time ever I can get feedback from it. To get it back stock I just re-solder the resistor back in place, it's still sitting there sticking up in midair not touching anything.

That type of mod I don't mind on vintage equipment, easily soldered back in place, cosmetic changes are out of the question. So if you're not using a 35 year old Cry Baby, and it's not too difficult electronically, look up some mods and try them, add a true bypass switch, you can find mods to tweak the tone of wah pedals too, more or less bass/treble, wider sweep range, etc.

Otherwise build a true bypass box. A one switch box isn't too difficult, I'll have to have one with 3 or 4, one for all but the first effect (Arion SAD 1 analog delay, also vintage) for a buffer, depending on whether I keep the one that's acting flaky rigfht now. The main problem people encounter is a loud pop when switched sometimes, that can usually be cured by adding a capacitor from input to ground.

Good article by RG Keen Here Complete with non-English electronics jargon.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:09 am
by Shredd6
I just bought one of the mods I posted earlier. I'm kind of excited to hear the difference.

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2008 1:51 am
by Shredd6
Alright so.. I tried the mod kit from pedalhacker in my Dunlop Crybaby.

It works freakin great!!!!!!

Most of the kit I didn't use. The kit includes parts to mod the gain, vocal properties, mid boost, bass boost. and true bypass.

I just added the true bypass switch, vocal mod (slightly more "woh" than "wha"), and removed the buffer.

The true bypass is freakin' killer. I love this pedal now! No modification of tone when switched off. It's perfect. The voicing is smooth and clean.

If you know how to solder and de-solder it's really easy to do. The kit was $20. But if I had to do it again, it would probably cost less that $10. I don't mind paying the extra $10 for the knowledge. It was worth every penny!!

PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 2:13 pm
by Kramerguy
I tried different configs with the crybaby original, and nothing ever seemed as tone-rich as just making the crybaby the absolute first thing my guitar went to. All other effects come after.

Regarding tubes, I love the warmth of tube amps, but they really are unfriendly to high saturation effects and distortions IMO. I ended up returning the last tube setup after frustration of not being able to dial in the sound I wanted. But OMG for 70's dirty rock, it totally ruled with an iron fist.

PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2008 9:13 pm
by gbheil
70's dirty rock. Is there anything else? :D