Musician Gear & Tech Discussion

I'm not sure what it is in me, or what it says about me that I see threads like this and think "ok, your mission, should you choose to accept, is to play devil's advocate and find a scenario where solid state is actually better than tube"...

if you play jazz.. polytone
victor wootens' brother (not sure his first name) plays a jazz chorus and while he's not a tone guru I have to admit he sounds great live.

and the jazz chorus, not much beats that for a crystal clean tone... fender princeton chorus or peavey stereo chorus also sound great for that one thing...
but then those who know me know I have several tube amps so who am I kidding?

sans... I think so much of tubes sounding good at low volume is just that EVERYTHING sounds better loud right? I've got a killer ant (1.5w tube) and it sounds pretty good cranked and is very quiet... but I bet it would sound better loud!

No sir. I have to respectfully disagree.
Or perhaps it's not to disagree with your point, but it's actually something a little different to which I made reference.
Sure I like loud music, but it is not tone specific.
My Marshall and both my Carvin amps are capable beautiful clean bluesy tones. They are in the 2-5 range on the Marshall volume control, and have to be boosted into the stage mix via the PA monitors.
( not so with the Nomad as it has two channels and 50 watts , where as the Marshall is one class A circuit @ 5 watts )
But to get that chunky thunk & crunch with growling sustain, the amp needs to be run >7 and at that level does not really require any PA monitor boost to be hard in the stage mix.
( as a matter of fact I usually have to turn it away from us )
Of course I switch pick ups as well as adjust the volume & tone pots on my guitar to get those soulful sounds so it's not "all" amp.

I can approximate the distortion tone I like at lower volumes utilizing the Tube Screamer . . . but it just is not the same as when the amp and guitar are running that distortion together.

A guitarist with a decent ear can get a good sound out of any amp. Getting a good sound out of an amp in a venue with terrible acoustics, not so easy.

High School gyms are so fun. Anybody who has ever played one can feel my pain.

I'm not sure what it is in me, or what it says about me that I see threads like this and think "ok, your mission, should you choose to accept, is to play devil's advocate and find a scenario where solid state is actually better than tube"...

if you play jazz.. polytone
victor wootens' brother (not sure his first name) plays a jazz chorus and while he's not a tone guru I have to admit he sounds great live.

and the jazz chorus, not much beats that for a crystal clean tone... fender princeton chorus or peavey stereo chorus also sound great for that one thing...
but then those who know me know I have several tube amps so who am I kidding?

sans... I think so much of tubes sounding good at low volume is just that EVERYTHING sounds better loud right? I've got a killer ant (1.5w tube) and it sounds pretty good cranked and is very quiet... but I bet it would sound better loud!

No sir. I have to respectfully disagree.
Or perhaps it's not to disagree with your point, but it's actually something a little different to which I made reference.
Sure I like loud music, but it is not tone specific.
My Marshall and both my Carvin amps are capable beautiful clean bluesy tones. They are in the 2-5 range on the Marshall volume control, and have to be boosted into the stage mix via the PA monitors.
( not so with the Nomad as it has two channels and 50 watts , where as the Marshall is one class A circuit @ 5 watts )
But to get that chunky thunk & crunch with growling sustain, the amp needs to be run >7 and at that level does not really require any PA monitor boost to be hard in the stage mix.
( as a matter of fact I usually have to turn it away from us )
Of course I switch pick ups as well as adjust the volume & tone pots on my guitar to get those soulful sounds so it's not "all" amp.

I can approximate the distortion tone I like at lower volumes utilizing the Tube Screamer . . . but it just is not the same as when the amp and guitar are running that distortion together.

haha! i see your quote and quote your quote.

I don't think we're really disagreeing at all. power tube breakup only happens at the last 20% of an amps capacity and it's what I think most of us love. get a smaller poweramp and it breaks up at lower volume... but once you get down to 1.5w it sounds good but loses something.
I think that something is what my spleen feels when I'm playing through the champ or the deville at painful volumes.

afa clean tone... not saying you can't get a great clean tone out of a tube amp... at the same time I think the amps I mentioned are... well... cleaner?

"painful' level is the key. I can't play at that volume at home. Haven't been able to play at that volume live for decades - to do so means either 1) the amp is not miked to the PA, and the guitar sound does not get spread around to the whole venue well; or 2) the whole thing is painfully loud - PA and everything else.
The 5 watter is a great choice, but as mentioned, at 'break up' point, its still too loud (when miked).
Again, it call comes down to the type of music one is playing.
This age-old argument has no 'wrong' or right', anymore than the proverbial Gibson vs Fender arguments.

Yeah . . . I generally think we are saying the same thing.
Crank my little low watt Marshall to 7 - 11 and it makes the sounds I want.
Switch it to the low power mode, and even direct out to the board and amplified, it does not sound good.
Interaction between saturated tubes / guitar pick ups / and speaker dynamics.

I think the thing I love about the little Class 5 is it is so simple.
Set the treble @ 10 Set the mids @ 8 set the bass at 1-2 crank the volume and the guitar itself is virtually all the controls I want or need.

I like it like that.


P.S. Gibson

you make a good point sans... perhaps my problem with my killer ant is more speaker interaction than volume... but "loving it loud" is at least one part of the equation.

you make a good point sans... perhaps my problem with my killer ant is more speaker interaction than volume... but "loving it loud" is at least one part of the equation.

Indeed.

I was rendered soft hearted by our lead guitarist drooling all over my Carvin Nomad last night.

I let him take it home with him to play with.

well, just make sure you give it a good cleaning when you get it back!

funny, whenever my friend comes over, I have him play my amp because I love to hear it as someone else plays, and I'm able to stand in dif places throughout the room. I guess you could say i have a guitar amp cuckold fetish.

well, just make sure you give it a good cleaning when you get it back!

funny, whenever my friend comes over, I have him play my amp because I love to hear it as someone else plays, and I'm able to stand in dif places throughout the room. I guess you could say i have a guitar amp cuckold fetish.

Chris, the guitarist I mentioned, plays quite well. Blues is his love and forte.
Hearing his Telecaster through that Nomad was quite the pleasant experience.

Weighing in here.

Solid-State is good for keyboard and bass, especially if you want gobs and gobs of power with less weight.

Tube (or Valve) is super and breaks up differently than solid-state for distortion. It usually sounds better sonically. Now we can argue all day about class A and class AB power amps, but the short version is in what is called a push-pull power amp, cathode bias doesn't automatically make it class-A. A single-ended power amp (single valve/tube in the power amp section) will always be class-A unless they want the distortion of pushing it harder to be different than normal. Output tube types, in addition to tube brands (both preamp, and Power Amp) can affect the final sound, although the speaker choice will have the most impact.

IF you are operating clean and/or only use pedals, solid-state may be fine. For overdiven preamps or power amps, valves are best.

Good input Will . . .

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