Musician Gear & Tech Discussion

I am looking at buying a P.A. for my band. My band has reformed, and when we lost our drummer we also lost his P.A. system. I've asked questions about P.A. systems before, and people have been very kind to answer, but now I have a specific questions

My number one questions is: What kind of mixer board do I need given what I want to achieve?

Let me elaborate:

First, I am going to go the powered-speaker route. So I want a mixer board designed for that setup (a non-powered mixer, from my understanding).

Second, I want to know which brands to stay away from, and which are considered very good.

Third, and most important: my main concern is being able to setup the monitors for individual people. For example: What I want to run is multiple floor monitors for the vocalist, bass and drums, and then I have my own in-ear monitors for me (guitar).

In the past we've had trouble setting this up and getting each person the mix they desire. My vocalist needs to be able to hear herself, so she needs to have a higher volume for her voice on her mix. My bassist needs to be able to hear himself, so on the mix coming out of his monitor, he wants more bass. I have in-ear monitors, and I need to push my guitar louder than the bass & drums so I can hear myself.

What I need to know is: (a) is it possible to setup a P.A. in this way and (b) if so (and I think it is) then what features do I need to look for in a mixer board so that I can achieve these results?

I appreciate any and all help on this matter. My bass player is very knowledgeable about this stuff and so I intend to lean on him heavily when I get to the actual purchasing stage, but right now I'm trying to learn as much as possible for my own good.

We use a Mackie 16 channel rack mount mixer VL something or the other. It has 6 aux sends, but we only run 2 monitor mixes, if you arent using these sends for effects like we do you could have 4-6 individual monitor sends. I loop out of the aux sends and thru effects channels then reinsert to an open channel. We run 5 mics on the drums, bass, guitar and 4 vocals so we are using 11 channels. For drums we mic the kick, snare, hi hat and then 2 little condenser mics over hear head to catch the toms, cymbals and to just get an overall sound of the drums. Your issue will be how many channels do you need. I dont like micing toms, cause to me they ussually rattle some when not being played and introduce some noise, plus most drummers dont use them that much and when they do its kinda in breaks of the music.

Behringer makes some cheaper mixers, I have a powered 10 channel that I use for live practice and my acoustic gigs, but it would be enough for smaller gigs if need be. Allen and Heath makes some of these style mixers also.

Colors the Mackie mixers are good I chose the Allen & Heath mixwiz 16-2 over the Mackie. The things you want to keep in mind when buying a mixer is the amount of channels you think you need verses the amount you might need down the road later on. Also make sure every channel has an insert and stay away from stereo channels. The thing I like about the one I chose is that they also have an extra output for each channel for live recording and they also have an extra volume for your subs if you wind up wanting to go that route. They also have 2 onboard effects processors that you can use. The way I have mine set up is I have 1 processor for the vocals 1 for the guitars and 1 outboard for the drums. I like to mike the toms also those mics will pick up the cymbals a little and I prefer to stay away from condensor mics for overheads because they have a tendency to cause feedback. Most pro sound engineers prefer individual mikes on the kick, snare, toms and highhat with overhead condensor mics and you add those to taste. also if you are miking drums they need to be compressed, you add the compressors thru the inserts with an insert cable. Beringer makes a mulitcomp (4 comp. in 1 rackmount unit) that are great for starters but you will want to get something better later and avoid using those on the vocals if you can swing it get a better comp. for vocals and guitars.

I dont have the road experience of these guys but I have to tout the Carvin gear. It has worked well for us, and I would not hesetate to buy more of it.
Less than 16 channels is a mistake in my mind 24 would be even better.
Your investing in a mixer to use he rest of your musical carreer.
Get all you'll ever need for doing independant shows.

What do I need to look for in feature so that I can have individual monitor mixes? How does that work?

I'm looking at Mackie and Yamaha mixers right now.

Mackie: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/1604VLZ3/#anchor

Yamaha: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MG206Cusb/

I just don't understand exactly how to get individual monitor mixes and thus which "features" a board has that enables that.

Colors the newer mixers these days don't have what we used to call monitor sends they are auxillary sends usually 4 or 6 you can use those for monitors out or FX sends or a combination of both. my mixer has 2 on board FX and 6 aux sends the 2 onboard effects use 2 of the aux my outboard effects uses one so I have a total of 3 aux. sends for 3 seperate monitor mixes. 1 of those I send to a sonic maximizer to take out any phase cancellation and out from that into the imput of my in ear monitor devise I have the Carvin PM 1000 the other two aux sends can go preferably to an EQ devise and then to a power amp and then to your floor monitors or I really love those sonic maximizers I use the 362 for monitors they really help by taking out any phase cancellations. But that is all there is to it. Just aux out to any processor device you like to clean up your signal and then to a powered speaker or power amp and then to the speakers.

Hate to always sound like a Carvin dealer but that is where I have my experience.
Their mixers have four monitor sends with an variety of ways to route one or all channels into one, two or all four monitors.
Even if you dont purchase Carvin. Look at their website. For many of their products you can pull up a PDF of the operation manuels.
A good sourse of information.
I admit I dont fully understand the 4 bus process, but to be able to route any combination of channels to any combination of monitors or mains is intriguing.

I would be particularly interested in how well the powered speakers work for you.

My current PA has four built in 300watt amps, two for mains two as monitors. Two monitor mixes just does not seem to be enough for the way we set up and play. Yet if I could route signal into powered mains and subs and use the four 300 watt amps as monitors only I maybeable to bypass purchasing another PA for some time.

Thanks Sans. I started looking at their website. I was under the impression (mistakenly) that Carvin only made powered mixers.

I'm looking at this one now: http://www.carvinguitars.com/products/single.php?product=C1644U&cid=13


I am looking at the bus technology now. I think that's what I need.



As for the speakers: Our previous P.A. system (which went bye-bye with our drummer when he left this past week) used four Tapco Thumps. And they worked GREAT. Our problem was our cheap Behringer mixer and our lack of EQ; we had feedback problems every time and that's something I want to avoid going forward.

The best peice of gear you can get to make that p.a. really sound good is a DBX Driverack unit they make one specifically for powered speakers but they also make them for every other application. They are a complete front of house sound management devise. I haven't had feedback thru my mains every since I got mine (5 years now). I have a friend that uses one on his monitor system too. He has two units. If you use in ear monitors as I do you won't have feedback thru the montors so you would just need one.

Amen on the DriveRack, its one of the best pieces of equipment in our system. Not cheap but if you are starting from scratch it is a great unit! You will have to get the RTA mic with it, but its some of the best money I ever spent on pa equipment.

The best peice of gear you can get to make that p.a. really sound good is a DBX Driverack unit they make one specifically for powered speakers but they also make them for every other application. They are a complete front of house sound management devise. I haven't had feedback thru my mains every since I got mine (5 years now). I have a friend that uses one on his monitor system too. He has two units. If you use in ear monitors as I do you won't have feedback thru the montors so you would just need one.

Thanks J.

We use a mix of monitors. I am the only one in the band so far who has invested in the IEM's. I bought a used Shure PSM 600 off a guy who wanted to get rid of it for $100. It had a bad bodypack, so I shipped it back to Shure. They replaced the whole thing for another $100. So for $200 I got a great working PSM 600. I then invested $500 in custom fitted Starkey Triple-driver IEM's. They sound brilliant.

But everyone else in the band is using the floor wedges, so we have to accommodate that. I'll look into the DBX.

That DriveRack has been on my need to buy list ever since these guys turned me on to it's uses.
If I had it handy I could drop 10 grand on all the stuff on that list.

This is what I'm looking at for a mixer right now:

http://www.allen-heath.co.uk/US/DisplayProduct.asp?pview=48

6 Aux Sends, and they're configurable so I can set them up pre-fade. 4 groups. But only 10 inputs from what I can tell.

The other one I'm looking at is this:

http://www.allen-heath.co.uk/US/wz3162.asp

Doesn't do sub-groups though. But has more inputs. And still has the 6 AUX sends, configurable.

I keep hearing the Allen & Heath stuff is really good equipment...

Less than 16 inputs and you will probably be sorry in the long run Colors.
I know this has been said several times, but I feel it's worth repeating.
I am looking at a seperate board just for the drummer's mics. To free up space on my PA.
Then again, I may just need a bigger board. The five of us filled out 12 in no time.

Yeah we got a nice 12 and now ya want the 16.

It's inevitable..